98 hours and counting!! NO FERMENTATION!

[duffman2]

Revvy,

thanks for the great write up on dry yeast. I wasn't worried before I used it, but this experience had me ready to swear it off forever. I now think I'm keep giving this batch CPR until it spits beach water in my face.

But I will definitely give dry yeast another try because I do believe this has to be an isolated incident.

Thanks to everyone for their responses and if you think of anything else, definitely let me know!! I'm not giving up yet!!!!!

 

[Revvy]

Revvy,

thanks for the great write up on dry yeast. I wasn't worried before I used it, but this experience had me ready to swear it off forever. I now think I'm keep giving this batch CPR until it spits beach water in my face.

But I will definitely give dry yeast another try because I do believe this has to be an isolated incident.

Thanks to everyone for their responses and if you think of anything else, definitely let me know!! I'm not giving up yet!!!!!

Actually it wasn't for you, it was more for the other guy that Remilard had responded to.

As to your issue, you have us all stymied, I know you've taken hydro readings, waited 72 hours and pitched more yeast, so you have done everything that most of the basic things we suggest to do...I wish I had more amswers/suggestions. We just have to see what this new yeast does.

Oh what temp are you fermenting at?

 

[duffman2]

Actually it wasn't for you, it was more for the other guy that Remilard had responded to.

As to your issue, you have us all stymied, I know you've taken hydro readings, waited 72 hours and pitched more yeast, so you have done everything that most of the basic things we suggest to do...I wish I had more amswers/suggestions. We just have to see what this new yeast does.

Oh what temp are you fermenting at?

I've been real careful to hold it between 68 and 72 F the ENTIRE time it's been sitting there.

When I first dumped it in the bucket I brought it down to 65 F before settling back up to around 70 F. I'm here in Houston so I've kept it wrapped in wet blankets with 2 fans on it, and I have had my ice packs changed out regularly.

 

[knappster]

Duffman,

I still wonder if maybe Danstar's bad batch wasn't limited to just the recalled batch of Nottingham. Companies aren't going to recall product simply because it's defective, they usually need incentive in the way of lost business to initiate that.

They said there was a printer that was puncturing the sachets on that batch of Nottingham, but as long as it took to discover that as being the cause I don't see how it could be limited to one batch.

I don't mean this to sound negative about Danstar. I think that if any company had this problem they would do the same thing, because there's not much else you can do. It's not really a danger to anybody's health or anything, so there is not a lot of risk in them riding it out.

 

[Brewin06111]

Really interesting thread... Subscribed.

 

[jmo88]

Duffman,

I still wonder if maybe Danstar's bad batch wasn't limited to just the recalled batch of Nottingham. Companies aren't going to recall product simply because it's defective, they usually need incentive in the way of lost business to initiate that.

They said there was a printer that was puncturing the sachets on that batch of Nottingham, but as long as it took to discover that as being the cause I don't see how it could be limited to one batch.

I don't mean this to sound negative about Danstar. I think that if any company had this problem they would do the same thing, because there's not much else you can do. It's not really a danger to anybody's health or anything, so there is not a lot of risk in them riding it out.

I couldn't agree more. Many of us used sachets other than the recall and have had no fermentation. Not slow. Nothing.

 

[Beermaker]

Do you have access to a brewer or equipment for a yeast viability test?

 

[gxm]

+1 to trying a packet of US-05. I've had no issues with it, rehydrated or dry.

 

[BillTheSlink]

Duffman,

I still wonder if maybe Danstar's bad batch wasn't limited to just the recalled batch of Nottingham. Companies aren't going to recall product simply because it's defective, they usually need incentive in the way of lost business to initiate that.

They said there was a printer that was puncturing the sachets on that batch of Nottingham, but as long as it took to discover that as being the cause I don't see how it could be limited to one batch.

I don't mean this to sound negative about Danstar. I think that if any company had this problem they would do the same thing, because there's not much else you can do. It's not really a danger to anybody's health or anything, so there is not a lot of risk in them riding it out.

I am not saying this is what happened here at all, but you are absolutely right. I worked in a retail hardware store for many years. I've seen companies ship bad stuff week after week, even if we got returns on 25% of the stuff and they had to refund our money. Of course it worked both ways too. There were products we know didn't work, like a liquid you sprayed on your driveway before it snowed and it was supposed to melt the first 3 inches and everything else 'slide right off', that we knew full well didn't work and would tell if asked our opinion of it, but there was a ready market for it so it was on the shelves. 40% may have came back, but we got 100% back on anything that was returned to the manufacture, so as long as 60% sold we were happy. There is no law that says anything has to work, only that you provide a warranty if it costs more than 10.00. It just can't be dangerous.

I would recommend notifying the yeast company you have a problem, even though Austin Hombrew is going to fix it for you. They may be unaware they have a problem. I doubt they employ someone to eavesdrop on brewing forums. There might be 100's more like you out there that are newbies and it's their first batch and they think it's their fault, when it COULD be the yeast, and you can't fault them if they don't know. It's easy to send an email. Hop (pun intended) over to their site a drop a note.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

This is clearly an isolated incident. I have had batches that just won't start no matter what you do. It happens once in a great while.

Lets don't trash a company. They stood up at recalled a lot of yeast but replaced it quickly. We sell about 100,000 packages of Danstar yeast a year. Trust me this is an isolated incedent.

They could have not recalled and 3/4 of the people would think it was something they did.

Forrest

 

[knappster]

Austinhomebrew,

Do you have any off the top of your head estimates on what % of people use Nottingham vs. Windsor vs. Munich? Maybe you're right. I saw the thread about Notty and assumed that 90% of the Danstar yeast is Notty and so even if there was a problem with their other styles that there were just so few people using and that's why I couldn't find anyone else discussing their Munich. Even searching the forums for danstar munich doesn't turn up a whole lot of information compared to searching for danstar nottingham.

Maybe I am out of line here, but just like BillTheSlink, I've worked for companies who sell "defective" products because that is what you have on the shelf and if you take it off the shelf there is a 100% chance that they will not buy it. But if you leave it on the shelf and only get complaints on 50% while the customers take the hit on the other 50%, then there is more money in your pocket. And the whole time you are getting returns you deny seeing widespread issues with the product to try to keep the customer from realizing that you sold him junk.

It's not limited to one industry or one supplier, but that is why I recommended that duffman2 repitched with a different yeast manufacturer, because it was a safer bet than repitching the same yeast that wasn't working. Maybe the next time he brews this beer he can try the Danstar Windsor again and have some Safale S-04 on hand just in case he has a similar problem.

And no matter what, try to have fun It's a hobby, not a job.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Your theory doesn't apply to any manufacturer in homebrewing. You are talking about sleazy retailers that would do that. That would not be me or Danstar.

This is how false rumors get spread. In the 20 years that I have purchased Danstar yeast I have never had a problem. We received the recall notice about the same time we got to that batch number. I think we only shipped out 2 or 3 packages. We took care of those customers.

Forrest

 

[duffman2]

Your theory doesn't apply to any manufacturer in homebrewing. You are talking about sleazy retailers that would do that. That would not be me or Danstar.

This is how false rumors get spread. In the 20 years that I have purchased Danstar yeast I have never had a problem. We received the recall notice about the same time we got to that batch number. I think we only shipped out 2 or 3 packages. We took care of those customers.

Forrest

I am writing to confirm that Forrest and Austin Homebrew are indeed taking care of me. I truly believe that this is an absolute fluke. Like others have pointed out, Danstar has been used successfully for a long time and I'm sure it has made some wonderful brews (this just happened to be my second ever dry yeast brew).

For anyone out there, if you need a reliable and caring homebrew provider, look no further than AHS. Their customer support, I believe, is generous and unparalleled. I will continue to shop with them.

Brew on!!!

 

[RGH]

You are going to have to name this batch once it is bottled. I wouldnt give up on it either.

 

[knappster]

Your theory doesn't apply to any manufacturer in homebrewing. You are talking about sleazy retailers that would do that. That would not be me or Danstar.

This is how false rumors get spread. In the 20 years that I have purchased Danstar yeast I have never had a problem. We received the recall notice about the same time we got to that batch number. I think we only shipped out 2 or 3 packages. We took care of those customers.

Forrest

Austinhomebrew, I'm not sure if you have read through this thread, but I think it would benefit you:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/nottingham-yeast-128940/

I'm not accusing you or Danstar of being "Sleazy". Stuff happens. To my knowledge, Danstar has recalled one batch and there are reports of experienced brewers continually having issues with sachets outside of that one batch. It also appears that people who have mailed recalled sachets to Danstar over a month ago have not received replacements yet.

In particular it wasn't until 9-29-2009 that they discovered the cause of the problem was punctures due to the printer:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/nottingham-yeast-128940/index21.html#post1578062

He said it did not affect prior and subsequent batches, but really how would you know if you didn't even discover the problem until other batches were produced?

Anyway, I wanted you to know I wasn't trying to spew out rumors or slander your store or Danstar, I am sure you are both honest and respectable people. But I also thought that my opinion was worth providing to this thread.

Happy brewing

 

[Austinhomebrew]

The OP is not using Nottingham so that is not the problem.

Forrest

 

[Revvy]

Austinhomebrew, I'm not sure if you have read through this thread, but I think it would benefit you:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/nottingham-yeast-128940/

I'm not accusing you or Danstar of being "Sleazy". Stuff happens. To my knowledge, Danstar has recalled one batch and there are reports of experienced brewers continually having issues with sachets outside of that one batch. It also appears that people who have mailed recalled sachets to Danstar over a month ago have not received replacements yet.

In particular it wasn't until 9-29-2009 that they discovered the cause of the problem was punctures due to the printer:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/nottingham-yeast-128940/index21.html#post1578062

He said it did not affect prior and subsequent batches, but really how would you know if you didn't even discover the problem until other batches were produced?

Anyway, I wanted you to know I wasn't trying to spew out rumors or slander your store or Danstar, I am sure you are both honest and respectable people. But I also thought that my opinion was worth providing to this thread.

Happy brewing

The problem is that one has to seperate the anamolies such as this PARTICULAR brew, and the Notty recall from all the other threads about infections/yeast supposedly not starting and/or getting stuck. 99% of THOSE stories are not problem with the yeast, it is problems with the brewers.

As the guy that has answered about 16,000 supposed problem posts about beer (the rest are tap room and other mindless posts ) MOST of those so called "problems" with beers were not really problems.

They were 1) thinking an airlock not starting or stopping really meant FERMENTATION had not started or had stopped.

2) Not using a hydromter.

3) Not waiting 72 hours to give the beer proper lag time

4)New brewers not knowing what the heck they were looking at and getting scared at the krausen growing on top.

5) rapid fermentation where the krauzen had already vanished....but not using the hydrometer to confirm fermentaton.

6)General new brewer fear.

If someone looks at all the thread titles, but doesn't go into the threads themselves, they are going to thing that there is some rash of bad fermentations out there. In fact many new brewers look at those titles and believe just that, and then they continue to perpetuate that yeast fear over and over.

But if you look at the end of the thread you usually find something like this...

Just so no one has a sleepless night worrying about my brew, I came home and at the 26 hour mark it's bubbling quite nicely. And the exhaust from the airlock smells yummy.

If it's not in the thread, I usually get a pm from the op letting me know that everything turns out fine....

99% of those threads turn out fine.

It's a rare one like this that is an anamoly......I have a feeling Forrest has a vast store of experience and knowhow that rival mine, and the two of us are stumped.

This is a true bad feremtnation...

But I think both our biggest fears are that new brewers use this thread and the the incessant Notty recall discussions to continue to feed the fears associated with brewing. And that's why he keeps saying over and over "This is not Nottinngham, yadda yadda yadda.

I daily have to help re-correct tons of bad advice and misconceptions about things on here...including "yeast fear" Like I have said over and over, a lot of that stuff stems from 20-30 years ago, when the yeast came in dry cakes, of dubious heritage and came across from where homebrewing was legalized in the hot cargo holds of ships and may have sat for months in terrible conditioned...In other words was unhealthy to begin with.

And therefore may have crapped out and made for nastiness, (and also was prone to stick fermentation as well.) and tales of it just continued to perpetuate over time, even though yeasts are much more healthy and fresh, and more is understood about them nowaday....Including Papazian whose seminal book (which influenced OTHER books, like Palmers, AND "Brewing culture") leads this to happen.people gravitate to the negative and fear and still perpetuate those worries...over and over and over....

And Forrest is just doing the same thing, trying to clear up mis-information and inuuendo...His livelihood is built upon information...And if the information is false, it could harm said livelihood. Like if the popular culture perpetuates the myth that homebrewing is dangerous (like some still believe you can go blind) Then new people are not going to enter into the hobby, so that means his business won't grow and as people leave the hobby through attrition or death, then his business declines. So it's important to him that misinformation and rumor is quashed and replaced with the truth.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Thanks Revvy. One point an employee made is if the new brewer made his sanitizer too strong and didn't rinse well the chemicals could cause a yeast not to start no matter what yeast it is. Something is stopping all yeast from working. I have had this happen once in 20 years. It never happened again. I doubt it will happen again to this same person.

Forrest

 

[Revvy]

Thanks Revvy. One point an employee made is if the new brewer made his sanitizer too strong and didn't rinse well the chemicals could cause a yeast not to start no matter what yeast it is. Something is stopping all yeast from working. I have had this happen once in 20 years. It never happened again. I doubt it will happen again to this same person.

Forrest

No problem buddy!

Yeah, someone in this forum has some info about, I believe that too high a concentration of iodophor can kill off yeast. I think it's iodophor, but maybe it's starsan....but it makes sense since sanitizers kill micro-organisms, that on a rare occasion it could nuke the yeast too.

 

[dantodd]

But I think both our biggest fears are that new brewers use this thread and the the incessant Notty recall discussions to continue to feed the fears associated with brewing. And that's why he keeps saying over and over "This is not Nottinngham, yadda yadda yadda.

Well yeah, but now I can ALWAYS get Nottingham at my LHBS, they are NEVER out anymore.

 

[RGH]

I believe that it was this guy that said the piece about sanitizer earlier... not tryin to toot my own horn here but 'beep'...

 

[duffman2]

Ok guys, I've been out of town for the weekend but just wanted to let everyone know that as of around 124 hours I repitched 1 pack of Danstar Windsor. 24 hours later nothing. Then at somewhere around 176 hours I came home, grabbed my sterilized hydrometer and turkey baster, opened up my bucket,

and.............Holy Krausen!!!!!! It was thick, frothy, and smelled like Rhino Farts from Heaven!

I don't know what happened, and I don't know what to expect of this brew, but right now I don't care. I'm not scared of making a bad beer, but to put in your blood, sweat, and homemade beers into an afternoon of brewing magic, and then wait around for fermentation like a chess club member waits by the phone for a prom date, is definitely NOT fun!

My only worry now is, do I have possible infection from opening the bucket too many times? And from waiting so long for fermentation to begin, I am very curious to see how this brew turns out.

With about 6-8 weeks left, only time will tell

 

[knappster]

Was that your third time pitching? They always say third time's a charm.

Even if it is infected it might still be drinkable. You've waited this long, might as well see it through to the bottle now.

Let us know how it turns out. Pretty soon I'll be trying out one of my Dunkelweizens that I fermented with the slow starting Munich yeast that I mentioned earlier and hopefully we both end up with great beers.:rockin:

 

[RGH]

you know what would be amazing? if it was the best beer known to man and you have no way of reproducing it! RHINO FARTS FROM HEAVEN FOR THE WIN!!!!