51% Efficiency - Grind the problem???

[tfbrews]

Hello All,

It was suggested I move this post from the topic I was in to maybe give it a bit more attention, so here goes:

I am fairly new so be gentle.

I did a brew a few weeks ago and missed a bunch of steps but essentially got about half of the ABV I was shooting for.

Last weekend I did another brew and took measurements throughout and ended up with a 51% efficiency after boil. This is obviously terrible.

I used the pre-milled grains from Northern Brewer the first brew and the premilled grains from More Beer on the second batch.

A homebrew friend of mine has a monster mill and gets much higher efficiencies.

My question is, can going from a pre-crushed grain, to a fresh crush on a good mill get me up 20-25% on overall efficiency, or am I missing the boat somewhere else?

I agree that good beer is good beer regardless of efficiency, but I also don't want to throw away money if there is something I can be doing to get more out of my system.

I am brewing on a 10gal all-grain cooler system.

Here is the brew info:

11lbs 2 row
1 lb 40L
1/2lb Carafoam
1 oz - Amarillo
1 oz - Simcoe

Mashed with 4 gal
Fly-Sparged with 5.5 gal

Mash temp of 149 (I was hoping for 152 but missed the mark)
Mash time - 60 mins.
No water adjustments, but our city water is slightly hard.
Mash pH 5.5
Pre-boil gravity - 1.033
Boil off rate - 1 gal
Post-boil gravity - 1.041

Used bucket and boil kettle measurements for volumes.
Used a Hanna to get the refractometer readings
Ending kettle volume - 6 gals
Volume into fermenter - 5.5 gals

Any idea why my efficiency would only be 51%?

I would like to bump up to 72+% - any suggestions on getting there?

 

[atom]

post a pic of your crush?

i can tell you that before i had a mill and used my lhbs or premilled online my efficiency would vary from 60-70...not with my own mill i get a consistent 75-77%

 

[tfbrews]

Thanks atom. Unfortunately I didn't get a pic. Next time I get from them (if that happens) I will definitely do that.

 

[Talgrath]

Are you certain your gravity readings were correct? Refractometers generally don't do so well with heat, so if the wort was warm when you read it, your readings could be off. Are you certain your refractometer is properly calibrated? Did you check the measurements against a hydrometer? Are you certain that your markings on your tun and kettle actually match up to the volumes of water? Particularly when they expand due to warmth? Getting that low of an efficiency seems pretty unlikely to me, even with a bad crush, I'm pretty sure you could get better efficiency with uncrushed grains than 51%.

 

[SirSpectre]

Using Beersmith I assume? Efficiency is stupid in that program. Getting the equipment setup perfect is damn near impossible it seems. I have never broken 50% efficiency according to the application. But all my other numbers, (OG, FG, ABV, color, volumes) have all been perfect. I'm now done with it, as long as I get beer out of it, and OG and FG are correct, I'm good.

 

[fishnwhistle]

I would think that if the crush from Northern Brewer's and More Beer's mill was that off, coincidentally at the same time, there would be several complaints aired. I would wager that, with some calibration of your system, you weren't far off of your projections if at all.

 

[agrazela]

Using pre-milled from MoreBeer I was getting ~55-60% brewhouse efficiency. I then started "regrinding" pre-milled from MB in the Ninja or the Cuisinart, and got it to ~65% pretty consistently--but with more trub than I liked and some astringency from shredded husks. Then I started buying LHBS-milled grains and was pretty consistently ~70% with minimal trub and no astringency. Then I started double-milling at the LHBS and now I get ~75% every single time.

So yes, it matters that much. And yes, MB's milling is terrible, you can see at least 15-20% totally intact grains in it.

(All AG BIAB, BTW)

 

[Urkelbot]

I find when I do a double or triple decotion I get a 75 to 85% efficiency. Without 60 is a good day.

 

[tfbrews]

Wow thanks for all the feedback!
I am thinking what I may want to do is have the grains milled by my friend with the MM3 and redoing the same beer and checking measurements.

I will double check all the measurements as well - hopefully there is just something stupid that is throwing it off.

Thanks again for all the feedback everyone!

 

[bairdo]

Yes crush can make a difference. And so does sparge water temp, and so does the speed at which you lauter - doing it too fast will result in a poor rinse. My poor efficiency was a result of the combination of those 3 things.

 

[madscientist451]

Its possible that the grain from two suppliers could have a crush issue, but that's not likely. I agree with post above about measurement problems with volumes and refractometer.
I noticed you used 9.5 gallons of water, is there a gallon of wort "missing" somewhere? With your grain bill and an avg. grain absorption and kettle evaporation rate, you should of had more wort than 5.5 gallons?

 

[tfbrews]

I ended up with 7 gal in the boil and had about a gallon of boil off.
I am doing this same recipe today so I am going to only use 6.5 in the boil.
I did my grains on a monster mill yesterday and I'm going to mash about 9 am today. I'll definitely it slow down the sparge too

 

[Biscuits]

Only thing I can mention that hasn't already been covered is your mash temp/time. You mashed at 149*, which from what I understand will give you a very fermentable wort, but you have to increase your mash time. Someone correct me if I am wrong. Also, how positive are you that your thermometer is accurate? If you were under mash temp, with 149* being the lower end, you may not have done much converting.

 

[tfbrews]

Thanks biscuits. I added 20 mins to the mash as well.

Thanks to all of you for the advice.

I had my grains milled with the monster
Added 20 mins to mash time
Sparged a lot slower
Raked the top of the grains more frequently.

86% mash efficiency today.

Thank you all so much!