5 years into this great hobby and I feel like giving up

[morticaixavier]

Really? I have been raising the inner cane inside the liquid, so the proper method is to raise the inner cane before placing into the carboy? Then pump the inner cane?

My recent Shallow Grave porter extract clone kit from MoreBeer came out thin, muddled, no roasty aroma/flavor. My final gravities all appear to be ending 1.010 - 1.012 for most batches with 001/US05.

this is what I have been told. and it makes sense. I don't think the bubbles are all co2 being knocked out of solution cause the whole is full of air when you put it into the beer.

but also look at water chemistry that can have a big influence on hop character

 

[khillian]

I had that happen with bottles of my Cougar Country IPA. 3 weeks at room temp carbing/conditioning. Then 5 days fridge time & they were fantastic,just what I wanted! The next weekend I put some in the fridge,& they were really faded. And I'm using a still pretty new super agata bencg capper. But I didn't lube the inside of the bell as recommended. Maybe the caps aren't quite sealing enough? so you could have a sealing problem on the kegs,like not lubing the seals.

I do check for leaks, had an issue since October with my gas QDs having pin hole leaks. Lost two 5# tanks, had to lug them back to brewcraft for swaps. I will double check keg lubrication next time I rack a beer.

 

[khillian]

this is what I have been told. and it makes sense. I don't think the bubbles are all co2 being knocked out of solution cause the whole is full of air when you put it into the beer.

but also look at water chemistry that can have a big influence on hop character

Will give this a try next racking, I looked into closed c02 transfer but I would have to give up better bottles and stick to glass. I would also need another tank/regulator and at this point I don't want to make any large purchases until I figure out how to make great beer again.

It would be nice to use buckets or spigotted better bottles but with my cooler / ice bottle method but this wouldn't work without a ferm fridge. I have tried ambient fermenting but temps in my apartment in SF are 70F and that means fermenting beer hits like 75-76 which turned a blond ale with US05 when I moved here 4 years ago into a Belgian/Cidery tasting beer.

Been a long road from Mr Beer horrid 80F ferments in Brooklyn with tiny packets of mystery yeast, to upgrades in equip, lots of knowledge (I read this form every day, listen to basic brewing radio, every brewing network podcast) and a few exceptional batches under my belt. I just want to get out of this rut. I also last year brewed close to 200 gallons, maybe that is somehow connected with lack of cleaning/making more mistakes.

 

[TimmyWit]

I feel your pain. I went through all of this last year. There was some funky sweetish taste that I couldn't describe and it didn't fit the bill for any of the off-flavor descriptions. The only beers that were drinkable were super hoppy ones. I suspect they were masking whatever was going on. I guess you could say the other ones might have been drinkable if you were on a mission. They didn't make you cringe or anything but they didn't taste good by any stretch. I was pulling my hair out for months. I replaced everything plastic, replaced all my keg lines, disassembled every keg replacing all the rubber and cleaning the crap out of everything else. I switched my supplier for ingredients. Nothing was working. I probably dumped 8 batches while all of this was going on. Finally, I decided to try bottled water and now the beer is fantastic. Try at least one batch with treated RO water before you throw in the towel.

 

[khillian]

I feel your pain. I went through all of this last year. There was some funky sweetish taste that I couldn't describe and it didn't fit the bill for any of the off-flavor descriptions. The only beers that were drinkable were super hoppy ones. I suspect they were masking whatever was going on. I guess you could say the other ones might have been drinkable if you were on a mission. They didn't make you cringe or anything but they didn't taste good by any stretch. I was pulling my hair out for months. I replaced everything plastic, replaced all my keg lines, disassembled every keg replacing all the rubber and cleaning the crap out of everything else. I switched my supplier for ingredients. Nothing was working. I probably dumped 8 batches while all of this was going on. Finally, I decided to try bottled water and now the beer is fantastic. Try at least one batch with treated RO water before you throw in the towel.

Will do this weekend for the zombie dust, wonder if the drought in California is effecting things? my last year water report was pretty soft mineral content. I also noticed a few months ago my super was turning off the water, after pockets of air in the pipes and chunky calcium deposits were coming out of the faucet.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Something like this is almost definitely water. Its the one thing you haven't tried changing that could easily cause all of the issues you describe.
With the drought going on in California they have to be pumping water from reservoirs that they normally wouldn't be at this time of year...

 

[khillian]

Something like this is almost definitely water. Its the one thing you haven't tried changing that could easily cause all of the issues you describe.
With the drought going on in California they have to be pumping water from reservoirs that they normally wouldn't be at this time of year...

Yea guess I didn't give it enough thought, as some friends are still making good beer a mile away. Who nows if their buildings have RO or other type of filters.

 

[eelpout]

That sounds exactly word for word what I was going thru 2 years ago.
I changed, cleaned everything. And I too was thinking I giving it up.

Out of the blue I decided to go to a different homebrew shop for new tubing for kegs and gas. Even though I just changed them.
Immediately everything was back to normal.
Both places have same brand, but something about the one was very wrong.
I asked the first place about it, but got no real answer.


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[TimmyWit]

It was the last thing I thought of too. Malty was exactly how I was trying to describe the character as well. At one point, I had myself convinced it was oxidation. I figured "I have never actually tasted cardboard. I guess this is what it tastes like." I put a clamp on my siphon to make sure no air was getting in where the tube connects. I even bought those lids to make secondaries out of my kegs and got a special little contraption for dry hopping in the keg so that I could purge it every time I added a dry hop addition. Man, it was frustrating. I'm pretty sure a couple tears went down the drain with every batch I had to dump.

 

[Jayhem]

Perhaps you are getting old and your taste isn't what it used to be? I can't understand how your process which used to produce good beers suddenly just fell flat.

 

[clevefails]

Having the same problem thinking it maybe oxyclean not rinsed well enough going to rinse all kegs with boiling water this weekend


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[khillian]

That sounds exactly word for word what I was going thru 2 years ago.
I changed, cleaned everything. And I too was thinking I giving it up.

Out of the blue I decided to go to a different homebrew shop for new tubing for kegs and gas. Even though I just changed them.
Immediately everything was back to normal.
Both places have same brand, but something about the one was very wrong.
I asked the first place about it, but got no real answer.


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Oh I did not mention I had a horrific time with tubing. Did not mention but in all this troubleshooting every damn Micromatic/other Vinyl/PVC tubing smells / tastes like plastic. Its a joke, every order from Northern Brewer, My Local Homebrew Shop, Morebeer all make the beer sitting in the line for more then 5 minutes smell/taste like plastic. I finally solved it with http://www.birdmanbrewing.com/accuflex-bev-seal-ultra-barrier-tubing-3-16-id-50ft-free-shipping/ which is a PITA to get on the barbs but its incredible tubing on the beverage side.

The gas theory is a good one... I have not tried to change suppliers, maybe I should give that a shot next time this tank is empty. Although I get it filled at SF Brewcraft I imagine if it was a widespread thing people would be complaining.

 

[khillian]

It was the last thing I thought of too. Malty was exactly how I was trying to describe the character as well. At one point, I had myself convinced it was oxidation. I figured "I have never actually tasted cardboard. I guess this is what it tastes like." I put a clamp on my siphon to make sure no air was getting in where the tube connects. I even bought those lids to make secondaries out of my kegs and got a special little contraption for dry hopping in the keg so that I could purge it every time I added a dry hop addition. Man, it was frustrating. I'm pretty sure a couple tears went down the drain with every batch I had to dump.

Did you solve the problem?

 

[khillian]

Perhaps you are getting old and your taste isn't what it used to be? I can't understand how your process which used to produce good beers suddenly just fell flat.

I wish it was that simple, like I said the fresh (~6 day old Pliny the Elder delivery every week to my local deli) is amazing had a bottle last night. Lagunitas Sucks when it first came out was also incredible every last drop. Over Christmas break I headed back to New York and was blown away by fresh Heady Topper/Hills Farmstead beers on a trip to Vermont. I definitly don't think its my taste buds, if anything I am way more picky and know what a hoppy fresh beer should taste like after brewing/living out west. My sister was shocked to taste fresh hoppy beers in Vermont, in upstate New York where my family lives its depressing. I get why so many back east say they do not like hoppy beers. Nearly all of them are shipped from out west are oxidized, or brewed back east and are not dry enough having a malty/nasty hoppy clash going on.

 

[khillian]

Having the same problem thinking it maybe oxyclean not rinsed well enough going to rinse all kegs with boiling water this weekend


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Yea? The last two beers the Heady / Galaxy Pale which are still carbonating, I made sure to fill with water half way, shake, wait drain repeat 4x. I guess I could make sure I am doing the same for my fermenters before storing dry and then sanitizing them with star san.

I tend to use 1oz of PBW per gallon? That should be normal concentration no?

 

[TimmyWit]

Did you solve the problem?

Yupp, I'm the one who voted for water a few posts back. Just thought of a few more things I tried while I was pulling my hair out that I wanted to add.

 

[khillian]

My precious Pliny, noooooooooo. Starting to think water is a big part of my issues since October.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/20...m_medium=Email&utm_source=share&utm_campaign=

 

[unionrdr]

Yea? The last two beers the Heady / Galaxy Pale which are still carbonating, I made sure to fill with water half way, shake, wait drain repeat 4x. I guess I could make sure I am doing the same for my fermenters before storing dry and then sanitizing them with star san.

I tend to use 1oz of PBW per gallon? That should be normal concentration no?

I use 1.5 ounces per gallon. works faster.

 

[Toy4Rick]

I have a Honey Red Ale that is delicious... 2 weeks ago the flavor was way off, realized it was over carbd, once I dropped the psi, purged the keg and several days later the taste was much better

I was using 10 foot lines with perlick taps and was serving at approx 16 to get a decent head and pour. So I ended up cutting down to 6 foot lines, dropped back to 12 psi and prob solved

I have used the same buckets and such for 3 years now hope I just didn't jinx myself

Hope you find it real soon
Rick

 

[tgmartin000]

Wait.....

So you're disappointed your beer isn't as good as Pliny or Heady or Lagunitas? Pretty sure that problem is not exclusive to you.

REgardless, muddled flavors, for my beer, were somewhat of a symptom of improper water or mash treatment. Do your beers attenuate fully? When I started to dry my beers out more, and get the water profile and mash pH right, it helped significantly.

Do you measure your mash pH? I don't think I saw anything mentioned about it. Agree with others on the water.

 

[khillian]

So I brewed the Zombie Dust clone partial mash on Sunday. Used 7 gallons of spring water to cut out my tap water. I also switched out from using my oxygen stone for my old drill wine degasser for aeration. Pitched US-04 instead my normal stir plate starter setup. Will keep the thread updated how this batch turns out. Currently fermenting at 62F.

My heady clone is drinkable, not as good as last years. It does not have that odd malt sweetness and no / muddled flavor, aroma isn't great. This batch was still pre ball valve cleaning on my kettle, but the IBUs have to be so high I imagine most bacteria couldn't grow in that wort.

I have a pale that's been dry hopping in the keg 5 days now at room temp that was brewed after the kettle cleaning. It's carbonating in the keezer now, will keep the thread updated.

 

[jonmohno]

Long thread.Skimmed it a bit, but have you narrowed it down yet? I have been thinking its water. I have better luck mixing spring water with ro water. What about carbonation? I've had my share of old hops myself. I think I've had the same issue. I'm thinking it may be oxidation. Have you tried racking sooner? Try adding some sugar to your boil like up to a pound. That may sound weird but Some of my favorite commercial beers (ipas) use some Ive found this with some of my top favorates that they had this in common. You may be setting your standard s a lil high comparing it to what I think are some of the top best beers also.

 

[TimmyWit]

My heady clone is drinkable, not as good as last years. It does not have that odd malt sweetness and no / muddled flavor, aroma isn't great.

Like I mentioned before (Post 34), really hoppy beers were the only ones that were drinkable when I had my water problems. One thing I didn't mention was that carbonation also seemed to accentuate the problem. Every time I tasted a batch before it went into the keg, it tasted fine. But, as soon as it carbed up, that weird malty flavor was there. That's one of the things that made it so hard to troubleshoot. It seemed like it was obviously something with my kegging setup. I have 4 taps so I reasoned that my Co2 manifold didn't have a check valve and that was allowing whatever the problem was creep into all the batches. I tossed that manifold and got a new one but no cigar.

The problems you have described are so similar to what I experienced, I'd be surprised if it isn't the water. Looking forward to hearing how this new batch works out. Good luck!

 

[jonmohno]

How bout your mash pH/ water profile?

 

[WillyB]

its probably because every time you go to sf brewcraft, you look for all the great hops like amarillo and cascade and they dont have any, so you end up with just EKG

 

[akillys]

Sorry to troll but if you do quit PM me. I'd be interested in buying some of your equipment. I'm new to the hobby so I can not offer much help but I can take that equipment off your hands if you don't want it sitting around if you quit.

 

[mabrungard]

Almost certainly, your tap water is affecting your outcome. Dull, muddled flavor is a classic sign of mashing at too high a pH and producing high pH wort.

The old adage: "If the water tastes good, you can make good beer" is no guarantee that the beer will be good. There are plenty of brewers now and in history have found that its rare for a water source to make a perfect beer without some adjustment. Whether it be pre-boiling, adding acid malt, or altering the grist...the water can't be perfect for all beers. In the case of pale colored beers, its even more imperative that the brewer know what the water alkalinity is and what it needs to be for brewing the next batch.

If the water source changed recently, then that could easily affect your outcome. Higher alkalinity and trying to brew a paler beer is a recipe for disaster. If you are concerned about the water changing, you can pick up a calcium hardness and an alkalinity test kit from a pet store that is intended for aquarium use. That will help you identify when the water changes. Getting a complete water test on your tap water would be very helpful too. Knowing what is in your water is the first step to brewing decent beer.

Without that information, you don't know if your water is sabotaging your brewing.

 

[tomq04]

Could there be a problem with the ongoing drought in Cali and making the water do weird things?


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[morticaixavier]

Could there be a problem with the ongoing drought in Cali and making the water do weird things?


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for sure. I'm not sure the affect low reservoir levels have on the remaining water in the reservoir, but if levels get low enough some communities will start getting water from totally different sources which will reek havoc on those that are using outdated water analysis.

 

[khillian]

Hey,

So the Zombie Dust clone I brewed with spring water was kegged today. I finally got 5/16 tubing and cut a longer piece with keg on the floor, no bubbles and all racking issues resolved. Smelled and tasted great so far, will know more mid week once its carbonated.

I also paid for a Ward Labs Beer Water test, I should be getting results this week, will update the thread on both.

Thanks for the support everyone.