5 vs 10 gallon,inside vs outside

[balto charlie]

Greetings all: With Christmas quickly approaching and my return to brewing I will be getting some new brewing supplies. When I left brewing many years ago I was at the half extract, half mash recipes. Within the next year I plan on going to all grain. After reading a zillion post in the last few weeks I (think) the following is an accurate assessment, please correct me if I am wrong:
1) 5 gallon batch requires 7.5 gallon brew pot but can be boiled inside on a stove
2) 10 gallon batch requires a 15 gallon pot and needs a propane burner to be boiled outside.
I prefer to brew during the winter so inside is a better choice for me. I might as well buy the smaller pot. Any thoughts?? Anyone brew inside with a 10 gallon pot? For those of you the brew in 10 gallon batches, why so big? Is it due the length of time it takes to brew, so you might as well make it count? This makes sense but this is a lot of the same brew. I guess you could split the batch at the end, add a little something different and get 2 different beers...No? Thanks for any advice. Charlie

 

[Jester369]

Unless you have a commercial stove, even getting 5 to boil is going to take forever. Also, I would suggest 10 gallons as a minimum pot size for doing a 5g boil - you start with 6-7 gallons, and a 7.5 gal kettle leaves very little headspace for boilovers.

welcome back to brewing!

 

[Yooper]

Well, most people can not boil even the 5 gallon batch on the stove. Make sure you can, before you plan to brew inside. I have a fantastic gas stove, so I can do it. I can bring 6.5-7 gallons up to a boil fairly easily on my stove. A 7.5 gallon pot is barely big enough. I have one, and it's tough. I usually keep some extra wort boiling on a different burner to add after the hot break, so I don't have boil overs. I would say an 8 gallon would be so much better!

I would do 10 gallon batches if I had a keggle. It's just as easy to make 10 gallons as it is five. Also, remember that whatever you're using for you MLT may limit your batch sizes. If you have a 5 gallon cooler MLT, for example, you're limited to 5 gallon batches.

 

[cheezydemon]

My inside stove won't boil 7.5 gallons, I doubt if it would boil 4. Yours probably won't either. For AG you will need a turkey fryer in the garage or an open wood fire outside(to keep you warm too!)

 

[Beerthoven]

I do 5 gallon batches in an 8 gallon pot, and the pot is just barely big enough. My next brewery upgrade will be a larger kettle.

I cannot do a full boil on my stove, so I boil outside on a propane burner. As noted above, some people are lucky enough to have a stove that can do it. Do a test and try boiling 6.5 gallons of water your stove before you commit to a full brew.

 

[TerapinChef]

For AG you will need an open wood fire outside(to keep you warm too!)

Hmm...interesting idea. Does anyone out there actually brew over an open fire? That sounds fun and rustic....

 

[balto charlie]

wow 3 replies in a couple of minutes. Thanks but I don't like the answers I'll have to check out my stove. I have a 4 burner gas cook top and one of them is huge so maybe that one will work....then again maybe it won't. If I end up going outside I might as well go for the 10 gallon size. How long "should" it take to bring 5 gallons to a boil. I know this can vary. Thanks Charlie
2 more replies while I type. You guys rock!

 

[Yooper]

wow 3 replies in a couple of minutes. Thanks but I don't like the answers I'll have to check out my stove. I have a 4 burner gas cook top and one of them is huge so maybe that one will work....then again maybe it won't. If I end up going outside I might as well go for the 10 gallon size. How long "should" it take to bring 5 gallons to a boil. I know this can vary. Thanks Charlie
2 more replies while I type. You guys rock!

Like Beethoven said, you have to boil around 6.5 gallons to get 5 gallons. (It boils down). So, borrow or steal a big pot and try boiling water. I can do it fairly quickly but not as fast as on a turkey fryer. (By the way, I HAVE a turkey fryer, but I've never used it!). I'd say mine goes from hot (remember your wort is around 150 degrees when you draw it off up to 168 degrees from spargint) to boiling in 30 minutes or so, but I think that would be very rare on a kitchen stove.

 

[Bellybuster]

there is a web page out there somewhere where the fella brews on an open fire, I'll look

Heya Balto Charlie...If you're even considering the 10 gallon size, I'd suggest going that route now...you will eventually anyway

 

[Chriso]

I do 5 gallon batches in an 8 gallon pot, and the pot is just barely big enough. My next brewery upgrade will be a larger kettle.

I cannot do a full boil on my stove, so I boil outside on a propane burner. As noted above, some people are lucky enough to have a stove that can do it. Do a test and try boiling 6.5 gallons of water your stove before you commit to a full brew.

Ditto. After only 5 boils, my kettle is starting to leak. I have to retighten my valve before every brew, I think my "oil drain plug" gaskets are leaking. When I drilled, I mangled the flippin' thing so badly that I can't use silicone o-rings, and it's already beginning to sport dings and dents everywhere.....

But not being able to move an inch during my boil, because i'm doing 7.25 gal of rolling boil liquid in a 7.5 gal space..... gots to change. I think I'm getting a 15 gallon aluminum Instaware. Unless a keggle comes through these parts....

Balto Charlie: Do you have a porch? Is it enclosed? That's where I brew, and it's great. I can open the door if it gets too warm, but as soon as I fire up my propane, it NEVER gets too cold. Then, I just put the counterflow chiller right outside the porch door, and the Ale Pail at the bottom of the front stairs, and gravity does its thing!

 

[Jo3sh]

I'll agree with the general tone of the replies thus far. You *can* do full-wort boils indoors, but it's a pain in the arse. Whether your rig allows 5 or 10 gallon batches, a propane burner outdoors makes things immensely easier. Some points to consider:

-- Even an inexpensive propane burner will output 55,000 BTU, and large ones can output as much as 200,000. Most small stoves output 10,000 per burner, and the large burners typically are 12,000 to 15,000.

-- When I lived in a crappy apartment with a crappy stove, it would frequently take more than an hour to get 4 gallons of concentrated wort up to a bare boil. Outdoors, with a high-powered burner, I was once able to bring 10 gallons of cold water to a boil in 20 minutes. It's generally a little longer than this to bring 12 gallons of wort to a boil because I deliberately keep the throttle somewhat below full to allow myself time to skim and react to near-boilover events.

-- No matter where you brew and no matter how large your pot, you will have a boilover at some point. Would you rather disassemble the entire cooktop and scrup burnt sugar off every little part and piece, or hose off the patio?

No matter how you slice it, brewing outdoors is the better choice if you can possibly swing it. And once you're brewing outdoors, it takes about 3% more effort to brew twice as much beer, so you may as well go to 10 gallon batches.

 

[CBBaron]

10gal batches are favored because it takes about the same time as 5 gal and you get twice the beer.
As mentioned an 8 to 10 gal pot is a good size for 5 gal AG batches. The 7.5gal pot the comes with most turkey fryers does work with care and is a cheap way to get burner and pot. Boiling outside is nice because you don't have to worry as much about cleaning up boil overs and other spills.
I open the garage door and boil just inside. It can be cold but it is mostly sheltered and I don't have to worry about rain/snow. Cooling is also easy and quick using a garden hose and an immersion chiller.
Oh and even if you decide to go 5gal get the 10gal cooler. You will be glad you did.

Craig

 

[MashStirBrew]

I just started brewing outdoors and its worth it. My stove has a 12500BTU "Power Boost"burner and I bet it takes every bit of an hour to get 6gallons boiling. While I have not timed it, my 65000btu propane burner does it in less than 20. I did my last mash inside while heating my sparge water on the stove and then boiled outside. It was crazy windy and like 30degrees out but, I cut alot of sitting and waiting time out. Just don't try to carry an open pot of 170 degree water. Pour it in a cooler, cover it, and then carry it.

 

[abracadabra]

I agree with Belly if you are even thinking you might go 10 gal. buy equipment that will allow you to do so.

Buy the biggest and best equiment you can afford.

But no matter what you do get at least a 10 gal. or larger MLT.

 

[user 14523]

When I started brewing in 1986, I kept it to 5-gallon batches and used the kitchen stove. I was moving often, and upgrading to 10-gallon batches didn't make sense. I just didn't have the space. But I suspected that making 10-gallons (or even 15) would be hardly more work than 5-gallons.

Now things have changed for me. After a 5-6 year break from brewing, I'm going the 10-gallon route. Over the years I have acquired a keggle, propane burner, stand, and finally a big-enough MLT. I knew I would finally get there, and I'm not looking back to the days of boiling 5-gallons of wort on some ancient electric stove with worn-out elements.
:rockin:

 

[balto charlie]

When I started brewing in 1986, I kept it to 5-gallon batches and used the kitchen stove.

Now things have changed for me. After a 5-6 year break from brewing, ...................... on some ancient electric stove with worn-out elements.
:rockin:

Hey I started in 84-85, took a 8-9 yer break and am now back. I remember those friggin' electric half burned out burners and broken support. I hope to go to AG, maybe 10 gallon but we'll see. So expensive. Charlie

 

[TerapinChef]

I hope to go to AG, maybe 10 gallon but we'll see. So expensive. Charlie

I just recently got started brewing myself. I did one extract recipe, one extract with steeped specialty grains, and have been all grain for the last 3 batches. I will never look back. I'm not going to claim to be some kind of expert on the subject, but let me put in my .02

Special equipment needed to go all grain:

A Mash/Lauter Tun:

I used a extra cooler that I had laying around that the hinges had broken on. Cost = $0. Apparently Wal-Mart has an excellent selection of coolers for under $15if you don't happen to have one already. As far as the rest of the gear for this is concerned, all said and done the ball valve, barbed hose fittings, s/s braid and nipples rockin: ) ran about $20. And your Mash/Lauter tun is made for less than 40 dollars, assuming that you had to buy everything that you need to make it new. Oh, and the time investment: about 1 hour reading the posts on how to make the cooler conversion, about 15 minutes in Home Depot/equivalent picking up the fittings, and about 30 minutes to assemble the whole thing. Maybe another 15 to test it and make sure it doesnt' leak!

Turkey Fryer:

Don't recommend that you make one yourself. Usually on sale around the major holidays, and an easy one to put on your christmas list (it's covert, the SWMBO may not associate it with brewing right away. Although mine is wising up....)I picked mine up just before thanksgiving, 155,000BTU for $39.99. Most average in the $50 range. This one is a bit of an expense.

Large Capacity Pot:

While not the greatest, you do get one with your turkey fryer. From here it's a matter of upgrading later, or saving a beautiful mexican keg from a local scrapyard.

Cooler:
While it is true that you can spend some money here, you can also escape it for some time. Especially right now. Especially in the Northeast. I don't know what your residential situation is like, but mine allows me to do this.
1) Get a large rubbermade tub. Like the kind your christmas stuff was probably packed in. If you don't have one, Big Lots sells them for $4.
2) Find a flat rock/landscaping stone/patio flag that will hold your pot off the bottom high enough so your wort is about the level of the top of the tub. This keeps your beer from floating away.
3) Place the whole thing somewhere that can turn into a sheet of ice. I use the edge of my neighbors driveway, but I don't really like him Now run the hose until your wort is cooled. Here, about 20 minutes for a 5 1/2 G batch.

Grain Mill:

I don't own one. Probably won't for a while. I just stop at the FLHBS and use their large, efficient, and best of all, machine driven Barley Crusher. I thought about getting a corona but if I had to put this 08-08-08 RIS through a corona I think I would jump off the roof.

Sorry for the long post but going AG is really not that expensive. I did it for well under $100 total.

 

[Jo3sh]

Great post, Terapin. Another thing to consider is that you don't have to acquire all the gear for all-grain brewing at the same time. Just buying the turkey fryer means you can do full-wort extract boils outdoors, and you will have improved your rig for $40.

If you don't already have one, build a wort chiller next. Scrounge a cooler after that and build your manifold or false bottom as you have time and run across parts. Any time you have a home-improvement project, pick up a handful of extra fittings and miscellaneous parts. Heck, buy or scrounge a cooler for actual use and make the manifold removable.

A lot of things can be salvaged or garage-saled if you take the long view and plan ahead. The club rig the Maltose Falcons use is based on salvaged pool-filter canisters. Look at estate sales and used restaurant supplies for big pots. Make friends with construction workers and welders. Ask people to keep an eye out for stuff you might find useful, and offer them some homebrew in exchange.

Heck, go to your local trade school or adult-education center and take some welding classes. Around here, this gives you pretty much unlimited access to a really well-equipped shop and skilled people.

 

[Glibbidy]

I'm a thirsty guy, so I need 10 gallons at a time. I'll also occasionally brew with a friend, and we'll split the batch.
It takes roughly the same amount of time to brew ten gallons as it does five gallons.
It's really a matter of presonal preference.
At 5 or 10 gallons I would recommend a propane burner and a keggle. My mash tun is a picnic cooler that max's out at around 19' Plato. If I want to go bigger I need to add some form of sugar or DME. I suppose I could use a bigger cooler, but for the now the adjunct route works.

Ideally at 10 gallons You may want to consider two keggles, and two burners