5 or 10 gallon mash tun?

[BrewingRugger]

Go with the ten gallon. You will reget have a 5 gallon mash tun!!!!

 

[djfriesen]

Famous last words. Neither did I. Neither did almost anyone that started out brewing 5 gallons. Remember- you can make small batches and small beers with the bigger cooler. But you can't make bigger batches and bigger beers with the smaller cooler. If you get the bigger one right away, you keep your options open, and you won't wind up with a five-gallon paperweight if/when you go big.

I think Alistair Sims wins the thread.

Unless $30 really is a huge deal, 10 gallons will prove more useful in the long run. In fact, it will prove so useful, in my mind, that you'd be better off waiting a little while longer to switch to AG. You can either spend $30 less now on a 5 gallon, and then buy a 10 gallon later, or you can get the money together, make one good purchase, and never really need to upgrade again.

IMO, $30 more for an incredible amount of flexibility is a fantastic deal. But then again, I'm the guy who just bought a 100 qt monster Igloo off of Craigslist, so take that with a grain of salt.

 

[ChickenHops]

Now, if I had missed my temps and needed to add water, I would have been SOL..

If my MT is nearly full and I miss my mashing temp it's no big deal. I remove some mash and add water to adjust the temp. Or I'll heat up what I removed and add it back. (I use a hot plate and 2 gallon kettle that I use to prepare starters for that. I could use my BK, but the starter kettle is convenient).

It's rare that I have to adjust temps. I know what my strike temp needs to be and I'm careful to get the water right before I add any grain. I've made over 30 batches this year and I'm very consistent in what I do. I only adjust the strike temp slightly to account for variations in grain.

It's no different that if I had a bigger tun, except that if I remove wort I don't add it back until vorlauf. In that case it's never much and it converts just like the mash in the tun. I only recall doing that once.

This may sound crazy but I like the way the grain bed sets up in the smaller diameter 5 gallon cooler. I batch sparge. I get good efficiency. I've also been working this past year on making the clearest beers I can. I don't know if my mashing tun has anything to do with it, but I've improved clarity quite a bit. I'm reluctant to change any equipment, which would mean a process change, at this point.

 

[J8D]

I started with a 10 gallon. Found myself doing some ten gallon batches of bigger beers and ended up borrowing a buddies 10 gallon and doing to separate mashes with a combined boil. My point being that while all those who have posted have brewed far more than me, I would not recommend under 10 gallon. I will likely be building a larger one just so I can do 10 gallon batches and single batch sparges. Yet, if money is a concern and you plan on staying at five gallon batches, then the 5 gallon should suffice. If/when you progress and start doing more, you can always give the 5 gallon mash tun away during the December "Pay it Forward."

 

[TitanJimi]

I have a 7 gallon round Rubbermaid Gatorade cooler that works perfectly. Brand new they can be expensive ($50-60), but I have seen used ones on ebay and craigslist for $20. I am surprised more people dont go this route instead of debating between 5 and 10 gallon coolers.

 

[s2cmpugh]

Thanks for all the support and suggestions and I certainly didn't intend to start an argument between people.

Couple questions, what is the difference between (regular) sparging, batch sparging, and fly sparging? I was under the impression that sparging was basically "rinsing" the mashed grains with water roughly at 170F for 10 mins. then draining it out into your kettle that already contains the first runnings?

Good suggestion on going used and I think I might purchase a false bottom to make things easier and less messy!

 

[bottlebomber]

Basically anytime a vs. thread is started you're going to see this.

 

[jmf143]

Thanks for all the support and suggestions and I certainly didn't intend to start an argument between people.

Couple questions, what is the difference between (regular) sparging, batch sparging, and fly sparging? I was under the impression that sparging was basically "rinsing" the mashed grains with water roughly at 170F for 10 mins. then draining it out into your kettle that already contains the first runnings?

Good suggestion on going used and I think I might purchase a false bottom to make things easier and less messy!

Save yourself some $$ and skip the false bottom - then put that money towards the 10 gallon cooler. You can make a manifold out of CPVC pipe for less than 5 bucks. Search for the directions on HBT.

 

[Rev2010]

Couple questions, what is the difference between (regular) sparging, batch sparging, and fly sparging?

There's batch sparge, fly sparge, and no sparge - don't know of any "regular" sparge. But put simply:

No sparging is just that - you use more grains countering for the loss of sugars by not sparging

Batch sparging - after draining off your first runnings you add sparge water (dependent on how many sparges you plan to do meaning 1, 2, 3, etc). So let's say we do a double batch sparge like I do currently: I drain the first runnings then add the first batch sparge water, say for this example 2 gallons of sparge water, stir it up, let it sit for 5 minutes or so, then vorlauf which is to clear your running of particulate matter, then drain into the kettle that has your first runnings. After all the liquid is drained you add the second addition of sparge water, stir, wait 5 minutes or so, then vorlauf and drain again into your kettle. At the end you have your full preboil volume.

Fly sparging - you use another vessel (typically called a hot liquor tank) that contains your hot sparge water. From that vessel, usually elevated over the mash tun so it can gravity drain, you slowly trickle the water evenly over the grain bed to rinse the grains. This typically takes a longer amount of time as it's a slower flow. As that is going on you are also slowly draining the mash tun into the boil kettle as you want to be sure with this method that you keep about 1/2" or so of water consistently over the top of the grain bed. You basically don't want the grain bed going dry or draining faster than the addition of sparge water. You vorlauf as well with fly sparging but if I recall it's a one time thing since afterward the sparge is a constant flow.

That's a rough description so if I missed anything or messed up any info cut me some slack


Rev.

 

[RCCOLA]

Go with the bigger cooler.

I started out with a 7 gal and ended up moving up to a 10 after changing to 7 gal batches.

Unless you're dead set on a round cooler, rectangular ones can be had a lot cheaper. Igloo's ice cube is a great cooler for the money. I see these 48 qts for $30 at Academy all the time

 

[ChickenHops]

Thanks for all the support and suggestions and I certainly didn't intend to start an argument between people.

More a debate than an argument. I like reading about the benefits of things that I'm not using. Sometimes I'll find a compelling reason and make a switch.

I wish that I knew what I know now before I started acquiring equipment. I've bought a lot of stuff that just sits idle. (my 5 gallon cooler isn't in that category, but my 15 gallon is )

There have been times when I wished that my 5 gallon cooler was a little bigger. But I get by. One time I mashed at 1 qt per pound of grain and batch sparged twice to get wort volume where I wanted it. The beer turned out fantastic.

I ran across a new Rubbermaid 10 gallon round cooler on sale. It was cheap. I passed. I even have a false bottom for a 10 gallon cooler already. I have no regrets sticking with the 5.

I generally make 5 gallon batches. But I'm more apt to downsize to a 3 gallon than upside to a 10. I like variety. I like to tweak recipes to see if it makes a difference. I have a friend who only makes 3 recipes. For him 10 gallon batches -- and a bigger MLT -- makes sense.

Get as much info as possible. Make a decision. Go with it and don't look back. You'll never find perfect equipment, but you can always improve a process and make it closer to perfect.

 

[s2cmpugh]

There's batch sparge, fly sparge, and no sparge - don't know of any "regular" sparge. But put simply:

No sparging is just that - you use more grains countering for the loss of sugars by not sparging

Batch sparging - after draining off your first runnings you add sparge water (dependent on how many sparges you plan to do meaning 1, 2, 3, etc). So let's say we do a double batch sparge like I do currently: I drain the first runnings then add the first batch sparge water, say for this example 2 gallons of sparge water, stir it up, let it sit for 5 minutes or so, then vorlauf which is to clear your running of particulate matter, then drain into the kettle that has your first runnings. After all the liquid is drained you add the second addition of sparge water, stir, wait 5 minutes or so, then vorlauf and drain again into your kettle. At the end you have your full preboil volume.

Fly sparging - you use another vessel (typically called a hot liquor tank) that contains your hot sparge water. From that vessel, usually elevated over the mash tun so it can gravity drain, you slowly trickle the water evenly over the grain bed to rinse the grains. This typically takes a longer amount of time as it's a slower flow. As that is going on you are also slowly draining the mash tun into the boil kettle as you want to be sure with this method that you keep about 1/2" or so of water consistently over the top of the grain bed. You basically don't want the grain bed going dry or draining faster than the addition of sparge water. You vorlauf as well with fly sparging but if I recall it's a one time thing since afterward the sparge is a constant flow.

That's a rough description so if I missed anything or messed up any info cut me some slack


Rev.

That helps TONS! Thank you for clarifying that. I'll probably start with batch sparging, then maybe attempt fly later down the road after I get comfortable with all grain.

Save yourself some $$ and skip the false bottom - then put that money towards the 10 gallon cooler. You can make a manifold out of CPVC pipe for less than 5 bucks. Search for the directions on HBT.

I just finished some searching and making your own manifold sounds like a great idea! I might even go the copper route if I feel ambititous enough.

Go with the bigger cooler.

I started out with a 7 gal and ended up moving up to a 10 after changing to 7 gal batches.

Unless you're dead set on a round cooler, rectangular ones can be had a lot cheaper. Igloo's ice cube is a great cooler for the money. I see these 48 qts for $30 at Academy all the time

Rectangular coolers do appear to be MUCH cheaper and then I can make my own manifold! How are coleman coolers or is there any brand or model that seems to perform better than another?

Thanks again!

 

[ChickenHops]

Rectangular coolers do appear to be MUCH cheaper and then I can make my own manifold! How are coleman coolers or is there any brand or model that seems to perform better than another?

I've tried several different MLT setups. I've used SS braid and made manifolds from copper and pvc. The false bottom pictured below is the best setup I've used so far. It's also the most expensive. (surprise). But it works great and it won't ever wear out.

Everything is stainless, except for the outside metal washer. The threaded nipple is what goes through the cooler wall.

The o-rings are high temp (and thicker than they appear in the image). The larger washers compess the o-rings. I didn't have to modify my cooler, other than remove the plastic valve that was in it. This setup seals tightly. I don't have a problem with leaks. (You don't need the outer o-ring, but I use one anyway).

I use a plastic 90 degree elbow (pictured) to feed wort from the MLT valve to the BK. I have a gravity setup.

Not all the inside plumbing is shown. I have a stainless coupler that fits into the the female union. That connects to a short piece of silicone tubing. The silicone tubing attaches to the false bottom (pictured in lower right). I have small stainless tube clamps at each end. The tube doesn't come off, even if I stir the mash really vigorously.

I like that I can just unscrew the hose clamp on the fitting next to the MLT wall and remove the false bottom very easily. It only takes a second. This makes cleanup a cinch. When I'm done mashing I carry the cooler to a compost pile. I pour out the grain. I take out the false bottom. I wash everything up.

Cleanup is a breeze. It's fast and it's easy to get any and all reside out of the tun. Any reside is going to grow stuff. Even though the tun is before the boil, I still don't like to give bacteria even a speck where they can grow. I can quickly and easily get to every spot and clean it with just a rinse.

Another thing I like is that I don't get a lot of wasted wort with this system. Everything drains, and it drains fairly quickly. I've never had a stuck mash, at least not with this setup. I've had stuck mashes with other setups. I don't want to go through another one.

I don't have to vorlauf much. Usually a quart does it. After that the wort runs clean. First running or sparges, it's pretty much the same.

I use this same setup in my rectangular cooler, except that I use a round bazooka screen instead of the domed false bottom. I much prefer the false bottom. It might even work in my rectangular cooler. I just haven't tried it.

Lastly, if I ever do a mash that has a risk of getting stuck, I have a round nylon filter that I can put over the stainless dome bottom. The filter is the thing used on floor buffers. You can buy them at most hardware stores. They're a couple of bucks. I used one once. It was so hard to clean that I didn't use it again. If I make a beer with lots of rye or wheat, it's there if I need it. Again, I never want another stuck mash.

This isn't anything unique. I know a lot of people have the same setup. It works well for me.

 

[Brandonovich]

I just finished some searching and making your own manifold sounds like a great idea! I might even go the copper route if I feel ambititous enough.

I use a copper manifold and I am VERY happy with it. I always get comments from other brewers how well it works. I have not had a stuck sparge since I went to it, and it is really easy to clean.

 

[RCCOLA]

I'm on the cheaper is better end of the spectrum--that way I can buy more ingredients. I have around $11 in my MLT setup. I bought a 40qt cooler at a yard sale for $1, $4 braid, $2 valve, $1 keg bung, $3 worth of tubing.

Get around 75-80% efficiency and have never had a stuck sparge--even with 50% wheat and no rice hulls. I wrapped a piece of stainless welding wire around a pencil to form a spring and stuck it in the braid to help the braid hold its shape, then zip-tied everything together. I think the build may have taken ~ 1 hour.

 

[midfielder5]

I don't know about your numbers, but with my 72% efficiency, I'm limited to 1.065 beers with my 5 gallon MLT. I have a purchased false bottom, with the traditional ball valve.

LOL. You go grrrrllll.

Look, none of us can predict the future. I am glad I got a 10 gal MLT 3 years ago {and returned the 5gal one}, for many reasons mentioned by others here. My personal experience: Just recently, I started brewing with a friend and we each want to get a keg fill after it is all said and done after brew day.
good luck

 

[s2cmpugh]

After searching online for a square cooler around the 40qt. range (Target, Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot, and Sears), I've discovered that no one has a decent cooler in stock. Target has a 48qt rolling coleman cooler, but I really don't know about that.

Bascially, I might be stuck using the 10 gallon round cooler. However, my LHBS sells a 10 gallon converted round cooler that includes a false bottom, valve, and some tubing for around $100. All Grain Equipment The other issue, this guy has been a complete d*ck to me and some of brew friends lately, so I'm trying to avoid giving him anymore business.

Are using brass valves and other misc. parts ok? My local lowes and HD do not sell stainless parts.

Thanks guys!

 

[bottlebomber]

Stick to your guns and boycott crappy businesses. Brass fittings are great.

 

[Rev2010]

Are using brass valves and other misc. parts ok? My local lowes and HD do not sell stainless parts.

Yes, using brass is fine. The whole lead thing in brass is rather blown out of proportion, it's only small trace amounts and we're adults, not babies.

I'm certain you gotta be able to find a 10 gallon round Rubbermaid cooler somewhere online for quite cheap. Try Amazon, Ebay, Craigslist, the classifieds here, etc. I would skip the false bottom and get a bazooka screen (or a braid) like I mentioned earlier, they're like $17 or less. You'll need to crimp/fold the end as they are typically 12" long so you need to fold like an inch or so but that's super simple. I started my first AG batch with a false bottom and opened the spigot to zero flow. I later found that the false bottom doesn't sit completely flat and was slightly warped. Not sure if that was a one off problem or if many are a bit warped but I'd tend to think many are as it would be difficult to ensure they're all perfectly flat, or that the bottom of your cooler is for that matter. Since returning my false bottom and using the bazooka screen everything has been flawless for me.


Rev.

 

[s2cmpugh]

Stick to your guns and boycott crappy businesses. Brass fittings are great.

That's the plan and I'm going to start ordering my ingredients online too.

Yes, using brass is fine. The whole lead thing in brass is rather blown out of proportion, it's only small trace amounts and we're adults, not babies.

I'm certain you gotta be able to find a 10 gallon round Rubbermaid cooler somewhere online for quite cheap. Try Amazon, Ebay, Craigslist, the classifieds here, etc. I would skip the false bottom and get a bazooka screen (or a braid) like I mentioned earlier, they're like $17 or less. You'll need to crimp/fold the end as they are typically 12" long so you need to fold like an inch or so but that's super simple. I started my first AG batch with a false bottom and opened the spigot to zero flow. I later found that the false bottom doesn't sit completely flat and was slightly warped. Not sure if that was a one off problem or if many are a bit warped but I'd tend to think many are as it would be difficult to ensure they're all perfectly flat, or that the bottom of your cooler is for that matter. Since returning my false bottom and using the bazooka screen everything has been flawless for me.


Rev.

Thanks for the tip on the bazooka tube! I think I'm going to go that route; simple, cheap, and very effective. However, now I need help on what fittings, valves, washers, and gaskets I need. Will any of these https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/cheap-easy-10-gallon-rubbermaid-mlt-conversion-23008/ parts work using the bazooka tube?

Home Depot currently has a 10 gallon cooler in stock for around $40.

 

[downtown3641]

That's the plan and I'm going to start ordering my ingredients online too.

Thanks for the tip on the bazooka tube! I think I'm going to go that route; simple, cheap, and very effective. However, now I need help on what fittings, valves, washers, and gaskets I need. Will any of these https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/cheap-easy-10-gallon-rubbermaid-mlt-conversion-23008/ parts work using the bazooka tube?

Home Depot currently has a 10 gallon cooler in stock for around $40.

The build should be exactly the same. The bazooka screen should attach as easily as the SS braid.

 

[s2cmpugh]

The build should be exactly the same. The bazooka screen should attach as easily as the SS braid.

They can't slide on because they have a 1/2" MPT fitting on the end. Amazon.com: Bazooka Screen For brew kettle or mash tun: Kitchen & Dining

 

[bottlebomber]

They can't slide on because they have a 1/2" MPT fitting on the end. Video Link: http://www.amazon.com/Bazooka-Screen-brew-kettle-mash/dp/B003ISY2DC

Its a simple change of 1 fitting, just ask on the thread lots of people have used the bazooka screen rather than the braid.

 

[Rev2010]

My bazooka screen screwed right into the inside end of the 3/8" ball valve. The inside opening is a 1/2" fitting. By the way, just be careful when you are stirring to not stir cylindrically at the very bottom of the mash tun since you don't want to whack the rigid tube. I stir over it then I stir linearly back and forth on each side of the screen just to make sure everything is stirred up and the bottom. Since the screen is aligned with the ball valve it's a no brainer, easy to do.


Rev.

 

[BigfootCounty]

I have a 5 gallon and it treat me just fine I plan on building a 10 gallon and using the 5 for my HLT I can see it being really nice to have both

the best part about my 5 is when it is pre-heated the mash It holds its temp 100% for at least an hour due to no head space

 

[Jota21]

Home Depot currently has a 10 gallon cooler in stock for around $40.

Same with Walmart: Igloo 10-Gallon Seat Top Beverage Dispenser - Walmart.com

 

[s2cmpugh]

I ordered my bazooka tube from amazon for $20 shipped!

And, I think I've figured all this out...https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/cheap-easy-10-gallon-rubbermaid-mlt-conversion-23008/ using all those parts EXCEPT the 3/8" FEMALE barb adpater. In its place will be the 1/2NPT bazooka tube that screws onto the inside part of the cooler/valve assembly to "sandwhich" everything together. Am I correct?

 

[ChickenHops]

The build should be exactly the same. The bazooka screen should attach as easily as the SS braid.

I started out with a SS braid. I clamped it on a short piece of vinyl tubing, which ran through a bung in the cooler wall. The tubing had a hose clamp as an on-off valve. That was my first and cheapest design. It served me for a time.

After the braid slipped off the tubing twice in 3 mashes I found a short piece of copper tube. I clamped the braid and vinyl tube onto that and ran it through the bung. It was an improvement. The braid still flailed around when I stirred the mash. I tried various things to hold it down. Some things worked better than others.

I finally bought a bazooka screen, ball valve and hardware to install it. That worked even better. I moved that into my rectangular cooler and put a domed false bottom in my round cooler. I like the false bottom best of all. The little elbow that goes through the FB nearly touches the bottom of the MT. Gets every drop of wort. Drains faster than anything else I used before it. Doesn't make any better beer, though. They all work.

 

[stratslinger]

One more voice in the crowd: I was researching the same thing a few months back. I was _convinced_ I had no interest in doing more thhan 6 gallon batch, and to be honest, I'm quite OK without going over the top with big beers all the time, so I had just about talked myself into the 5 gallon cooler.

I read just enough on HBT to give me a little doubt on my position, however, and I went with the 10 gallon instead.

Fast forward a few months and a handful of AG batches, and I've now got a pair of kegs (acquired legitimately!) to convert and I'm starting to wonder if the 10 gallon MLT is going to cut it long term!

As for your fittings: I was also determined to do a fully DYI set up for my bulkhead, valve, and bazooka-style-screen. However, I couldn't find appropriately sized SS washers locally to save my life, and eventually broke down and bought them from the LHBS. Happily, I have a far more pleasant LHBS than it sounds like you've got, and I walked away with a nikel plated brass ball valve for about $15 and the bazooka screen for about $20, and a greatly reduced headache!

 

[Rev2010]

using all those parts EXCEPT the 3/8" FEMALE barb adpater. In its place will be the 1/2NPT bazooka tube that screws onto the inside part of the cooler/valve assembly to "sandwhich" everything together. Am I correct?

Yep, that's exactly how it goes When you install it after crimping the end to fit in the MLT just make sure to hand tighten the bazooka screen - you don't need to go nuts and tighten the hell out of it and will only risk damaging the screen or the fitting that holds onto it.


Rev.