5 gallon carboy vs 6 gallon bucket for Primary

[foscojo]

I am preparing to brew a Pliny the Elder DIPA clone. Should be a vigorous fermentation. I inherited a couple of True Brew 6+ gallon buckets and a couple of 5 gallon glass carboys. I've heard the True Brew buckets have issues with the lids not sealing properly. So here's my dilemma for primary fermentation:

6+ gallon bucket for the extra headspace but sketchy lid

VS

5 gallon glass carboy and rig up a blowoff tube using the airlock and 3/8" tubing

 

[AJinJacksonville]

Personally, I've read about too many glass carboy injuries (be careful before you open the link in HBT) and lost brews due to a misstep, poor quality glass, glass defects, etc. Although arguably more pristine and less prone to infections gripping the walls of glass vs. plastic, I would rather not take chances. If you're worried about the seal, why not get a different bucket or a plastic fermenting bottle? If time is of the essence, you could use either of what you mentioned. If you're worried about headspace, don't fill it to the top and maybe go with a slightly smaller batch into the fermenter.

Cheers!

 

[dawn_kiebawls]

Bucket, all day. Seal it as best as you can and still be ready with a blowoff tube.

In my experience, when attaching the tubing to the airlock as a 'blowoff' tube I still ran into issues because of how the bottom of the airlock is designed. Several times I've cut the bottom off (there are like 3 or 4 small holes) to make it so it has one larger opening helping to prevent hop debris (It really does not take much at all) from clogging one of the ports.

An alternative: if you choose to go with the carboy, use like a 1.5" OD tubing (verify size, thats a guesstimate) and jam that in the neck of the carboy, skipping the airlock all together. I've never done it but have seen pictures and is a common practice.

My vote is still for the bucket, but thats just my $0.02

 

[foscojo]

Bucket, all day. Seal it as best as you can and still be ready with a blowoff tube.

In my experience, when attaching the tubing to the airlock as a 'blowoff' tube I still ran into issues because of how the bottom of the airlock is designed. Several times I've cut the bottom off (there are like 3 or 4 small holes) to make it so it has one larger opening helping to prevent hop debris (It really does not take much at all) from clogging one of the ports.

An alternative: if you choose to go with the carboy, use like a 1.5" OD tubing (verify size, thats a guesstimate) and jam that in the neck of the carboy, skipping the airlock all together. I've never done it but have seen pictures and is a common practice.

My vote is still for the bucket, but thats just my $0.02

Thanks, so would you then choose to primary in the regular bucket or the bottling bucket for an easier transfer to the carboy for secondary? Could the yeast cake from 2 liquid packs clog the spigot?

 

[Jag75]

Welcome to the forum and hobby !

I'd use the 6 gallon FV. I also would encourage you to stay away from secondaries. Especially when brewing an IPA. It doesnt do anything beneficial, only allows bad stuff .

 

[dawn_kiebawls]

Thanks, so would you then choose to primary in the regular bucket or the bottling bucket for an easier transfer to the carboy for secondary? Could the yeast cake from 2 liquid packs clog the spigot?

From the info I've gathered about your equipment I'm guessing this is an extract kit? (not that it makes a damn bit of difference, I'm just buzzed and typing out loud)

(i) Skip secondary, it only will lead to unnecessary oxidation and infection risk
(ii) If you're using liquid yeast, save yourself some money and learn a (critical) skill: make a starter
(iii) Since this is a Pliny clone I'm assuming it will be HEAVILY hopped so I wouldn't count on using a spigot, but my recommendation is to use the bucket as a primary, skip secondary which leaves your bottling bucket available.

Thats what I would do. Cheers!

Edit: @Jag75 beat me to it

Double edit: *use ONE liquid yeast pack to make a starter and save some $ and get smarter and such

 

[foscojo]

From the info I've gathered about your equipment I'm guessing this is an extract kit? (not that it makes a damn bit of difference, I'm just buzzed and typing out loud)

(i) Skip secondary, it only will lead to unnecessary oxidation and infection risk
(ii) If you're using liquid yeast, save yourself some money and learn a (critical) skill: make a starter
(iii) Since this is a Pliny clone I'm assuming it will be HEAVILY hopped so I wouldn't count on using a spigot, but my recommendation is to use the bucket as a primary, skip secondary which leaves your bottling bucket available.

Thats what I would do. Cheers!

Edit: @Jag75 beat me to it

Double edit: *use ONE liquid yeast pack to make a starter and save some $ and get smarter and such

Thanks. I'm on a tight budget right now so unfortunately, I won't be equiped to do a starter this time around so I'll have to do direct pitch but I can shake it and add nutrient. I could use a mason jar for a flask and agitate by hand but I have no spare DME to use.

I do have a hop spider and bag for the boil and dry hop so it'll just be yeast cake mostly from the primary but the plan was to do a secondary to help clarify and dry hop there in the carboy.

 

[Davedrinksbeer]

I’ve done the Pliny the Elder Kit before a few times from Northern Brewer, great beer. I’ve always used buckets and for a bigger, hard fermenting beer I’ll use a 7 gallon wine plastic bucket. For yeast if your not doing a starter I’d pitch 2-3 packs of dry yeast and shake the hell out of it.

 

[foscojo]

I’ve done the Pliny the Elder Kit before a few times from Northern Brewer, great beer. I’ve always used buckets and for a bigger, hard fermenting beer I’ll use a 7 gallon wine plastic bucket. For yeast if your not doing a starter I’d pitch 2-3 packs of dry yeast and shake the hell out of it.

Thanks. I am not prepared to do a start so the plan is to direct pitch 2 of the White Labs WLP001 PurePitch packs. The claims 200B cells which might be a bit short. I've used a couple of different calculators and got targets of 250B and 330B. But I also have a couple of packs of Safale 04 the I may rehydrate and toss in just to be sure I don't come up short. I figure it it would be better to overshoot than undershoot as this is a pretty big beer with a full pound of corn sugar in the wort.

Does that seem like a reasonable strategy?

 

[Davedrinksbeer]

Thanks. I am not prepared to do a start so the plan is to direct pitch 2 of the White Labs WLP001 PurePitch packs. The claims 200B cells which might be a bit short. I've used a couple of different calculators and got targets of 250B and 330B. But I also have a couple of packs of Safale 04 the I may rehydrate and toss in just to be sure I don't come up short. I figure it it would be better to overshoot than undershoot as this is a pretty big beer with a full pound of corn sugar in the wort.

Does that seem like a reasonable strategy?

OG is targeted at 1.070 for Pliny the Elder so pitching 2 vial packs of the WLP 001 should be fine. The S-04 yeast is not the same strain yeast as WLP 001 so I wouldn’t throw that in. WLP 001 is the same as S-05. If your beer was 1.080 Or higher then yeah I would add a pack of S-05.

 

[foscojo]

OG is targeted at 1.070 for Pliny the Elder so pitching 2 vial packs of the WLP 001 should be fine. The S-04 yeast is not the same strain yeast as WLP 001 so I wouldn’t throw that in. WLP 001 is the same as S-05. If your beer was 1.080 Or higher then yeah I would add a pack of S-05.

The description said it was 1.070-1.074 so on the calculators I use I split the difference and used 1.072 which came to 331B cells. The WLP001 packs say 100B cells each so 2 packs would still be 131B cells short. And that is assuming that the packs are 100% viable.

Was that not how that works? I may just not really understand the math here.

 

[Davedrinksbeer]

The description said it was 1.070-1.074 so on the calculators I use I split the difference and used 1.072 which came to 331B cells. The WLP001 packs say 100B cells each so 2 packs would still be 131B cells short. And that is assuming that the packs are 100% viable.

Was that not how that works? I may just not really understand the math here.

Your Math is correct, you are 100 Billion cells short, this is one of those areas where some brewers would say 2 vials of 001 for 1.070 Beer should be plenty once the yeast get going and multiplying then you have other brewers who are more exact and will pitch exactly whatever Mr Malty’s Yeast Calculator says. If you want to be safe then yes throw in a extra pack of S-04 yeast, but if you can I’d try to get the S-05 because it is the same strain as the WLP 001

 

[foscojo]

Your Math is correct, you are 100 Billion cells short, this is one of those areas where some brewers would say 2 vials of 001 for 1.070 Beer should be plenty once the yeast get going and multiplying then you have other brewers who are more exact and will pitch exactly whatever Mr Malty’s Yeast Calculator says. If you want to be safe then yes throw in a extra pack of S-04 yeast, but if you can I’d try to get the S-05 because it is the same strain as the WLP 001

Ah. Gotcha. Thanks for the help.

 

[mashpaddled]

There are plastic carboys made of PET and HDPE (same as buckets) that are safer options than glass carboys.

The two things that make buckets not seal well are not completely sealing the lid and the gasket in the lid shifts to a bad position. That happens because of one or two things. (1) There is dried krausen behind the gasket from a vigorous fermentation--which is easily cleaned out. (2) You remove the lid by popping it up most of the way and then peeling it off like a yogurt lid, instead of popping it up all the way around and lifting it off. The gasket is easily straightened out with a spoon or plastic pry tool. This is really not a big deal.

I wouldn't put a five gallon beer in a five gallon carboy even with a blow off. You'll lose a lot of tasty beer to the blow off tube and risk clogging it which will blow up as a huge and potentially dangerous mess. If you intend to dry hop you've also given yourself little room for hop additions.

 

[foscojo]

There are plastic carboys made of PET and HDPE (same as buckets) that are safer options than glass carboys.

The two things that make buckets not seal well are not completely sealing the lid and the gasket in the lid shifts to a bad position. That happens because of one or two things. (1) There is dried krausen behind the gasket from a vigorous fermentation--which is easily cleaned out. (2) You remove the lid by popping it up most of the way and then peeling it off like a yogurt lid, instead of popping it up all the way around and lifting it off. The gasket is easily straightened out with a spoon or plastic pry tool. This is really not a big deal.

I wouldn't put a five gallon beer in a five gallon carboy even with a blow off. You'll lose a lot of tasty beer to the blow off tube and risk clogging it which will blow up as a huge and potentially dangerous mess. If you intend to dry hop you've also given yourself little room for hop additions.

Thanks. Yeah, I decided to go with the bucket for all the reasons you and others mentioned. I think the lid problem was really that I just wasn't pushing it down all the way around. It is so tight that it takes a great deal of effort which is good is suppose but it also physically hurts my hands to get it on and off.

I decided that eventually I'm going to move to a Catalyst conical and be done with buckets and carboys altogether. And being able to use Mason jars to easily remove the yeast cake is pretty awesome. I'll keep using bags for all grain and hops so there'll be very little of that trub to deal with in the fermenter.