4 months - No Pellicle

[Oldsock]

Old sock -

I really dont want to add any fruit. I am too worried that it will impart flavors that will compete with yeast and sourness. Honey may not be bad - but would the regular yeast (sach?) just eat that? Same with DME? Add why would it add the flavor of sugar? Would all the sugars be eaten between the yeast and the bugs?

At this point the Sacch probably isn't as active as the Brett and bacteria, so they should eat most of whatever sugar you add. What I was trying to say is that I generally don't add a sugar source simply for the fermentables; I add fruit if I want to add a fruit flavor or honey if I want some honey aromatics.

Malto-dextrin or lactose certainly could work, I just haven't tried them.

 

[bluedubbed]

Just a follow up to jalgayer's questions. How much fruit, maltodextrin, DME or honey would you add at a time? If adding maltodextrin or DME do you dissolve it in water first?

Kind of an unrelated question, but the current lambic I have going is for my wife who likes the sweetness of Lindemans lambics. I recently sampled mine and it's very sour and dry with no sweetness. I think it's nice, but she doesn't. It's ~ 8 months old and I've already added 2 cans of fruit puree.

So the question is, how can I increase the sweetness? Do I add a sugar that isn't fermented very well by some yeast such as maltotriose just before bottling? Any other suggestions?

Finally is there a consensus on how much/what kind of yeast to add before bottling? I've read/been told quite a few differing opinions.

Thanks!

 

[Oldsock]

Just a follow up to jalgayer's questions. How much fruit, maltodextrin, DME or honey would you add at a time? If adding maltodextrin or DME do you dissolve it in water first?

Kind of an unrelated question, but the current lambic I have going is for my wife who likes the sweetness of Lindemans lambics. I recently sampled mine and it's very sour and dry with no sweetness. I think it's nice, but she doesn't. It's ~ 8 months old and I've already added 2 cans of fruit puree.

So the question is, how can I increase the sweetness? Do I add a sugar that isn't fermented very well by some yeast such as maltotriose just before bottling? Any other suggestions?

Finally is there a consensus on how much/what kind of yeast to add before bottling? I've read/been told quite a few differing opinions.

Thanks!

I would dissolve anything granulated to prevent foaming and ensure it dissolves. How much you add depends on the base beer and what you are trying to accomplish. For fruit I’ve used between .5 and 2.5 lbs per gallon (less for stronger flavored fruits, more for more flavorful beers). If you are just trying to feed the bugs, .5-1 lb of fermentables per 5 gallons would be a good place to start, you can always add more.

I would bottle the lambic as is and add simple syrup to taste in the glass. That way you can have it dry, and she can have it sweet. You could even make a fruit flavored syrup by boiling fresh/frozen fruit with water and sugar then straining if she wants more fruit flavor. Something like this: http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/blueberry-soda-recipe/index.html

To get a bottled sweetened lambic you’d need to get rid of the bugs with chemicals, heat, or filtration. The bugs can eat through just about any sugar, although you could add an artificial sweetener if you wanted. I’ve dealt with both chemicals (crash cool, fine with gelatin, 1 campden tablet per gallon) and pasteurization (place bottles in a pot of cool water and heat until the beer is ~140 F). Even with the bugs dead you won’t be able to have a sugary sweet beer since the Sacch will eat simple sugars, but it would allow you to add lactose or something similar.

You a sour at a year or less you don’t need to add bottling yeast, but it certainly wouldn’t hurt. I often use wine yeast since it is acid/alcohol tolerant, but most beer yeasts would do a fine job as well.

Hope that helps, good luck.

 

[SumnerH]

Kind of an unrelated question, but the current lambic I have going is for my wife who likes the sweetness of Lindemans lambics. I recently sampled mine and it's very sour and dry with no sweetness. I think it's nice, but she doesn't. It's ~ 8 months old and I've already added 2 cans of fruit puree.

So the question is, how can I increase the sweetness? Do I add a sugar that isn't fermented very well by some yeast such as maltotriose just before bottling? Any other suggestions?

Lindemans uses acesulfame potassium (Ace-K, an artificial sweetener that's common in Europe) to sweeten theirs. Pure sucralose is easier to come by in the US and would probably serve the same purpose (be careful with Splenda--it contains some fermentables as filler so you'd have to let it ferment out after adding it and before bottling).

Or have her put a spoonful of sugar in the glass before pouring it.

 

[bluedubbed]

Thanks. I just found that thread!

 

[jalgayer]

Good points again. I didnt realize that the sach was inactive... but that really makes sense.

 

[jalgayer]

Updating since my last post on this.

February: Sat with no changes

March: Pellicle returns. Aroma smells soury (sp?). Flavor is sour but not too much.

April: Pellicle drops again. i add 1oz of french medium toast oak chips that were soaking in makers mark for 9 months (second addition of oak - oak taste was basically non existent)

May: Rolling along - no tasting or smelling this month

June: Same

July: Taste much more sour. I added 8oz lactose sugar to try to give a *little* residual sweetness. Another pellicle returns at the end of this month.

August (13th month): Pellicle gone again. lactose worked like a charm as did the oak. Basically 85% sour flavor and arome with 10% slight sweetness and 5% hint of oak.

September and Beyond: I think I will just let this mesh for another month then bottle in october (which would be 15 months) and see how it ends up.

Anyone want to do a bottle swap of sours?

J

 

[passedpawn]

Anyone want to do a bottle swap of sours?

J

I'd love to. I've got a Flanders Red I could send. Just don't know how to mail beers!

 

[jtakacs]

stuff it in an envelope?

 

[jalgayer]

I'd love to. I've got a Flanders Red I could send. Just don't know how to mail beers!

Good question. Maybe bubble wrap a couple up really good then a "priority mail box" from the post office?

Let me get this bottled up, carbbed, then we will set something up.

 

[boralyl]

Good question. Maybe bubble wrap a couple up really good then a "priority mail box" from the post office?

Let me get this bottled up, carbbed, then we will set something up.

For shipping beer read the packaging and shipping sections of this article. You want to ship FedEx or UPS. It's illegal to ship alcohol via USPS, and it's more of a gray area with FedEx/UPS. I simply print a packaging label online and drop off my box at a shipment center, no questions asked, very easy.

 

[ghpeel]

I added 8oz lactose sugar to try to give a *little* residual sweetness.

Wait, I thought that Brett & bugs can eat lactose? I know they can eat Malto-D. Can someone chime in on whether they eat lactose just as easily?

 

[Oldsock]

Wait, I thought that Brett & bugs can eat lactose? I know they can eat Malto-D. Can someone chime in on whether they eat lactose just as easily?

Some strains of Brett/Lacto can, some can't. Chad Yakobson found that Brett C has the enzyme to break the bond, but that most of the Lambic strains B/L do not. No way to be sure without adding some and waiting.

 

[boostsr20]

Or have her put a spoonful of sugar in the glass before pouring it.

I like this method although I make a simple syrup to avoid foaming. I was also told once by a pro brewer that if your adding maltodextrin at any stage to give it at least 3 months before bottling.