4 failed 11G batches in a row...

[Bigfly]

Raider Doing the COFI thing would not be that hard or expensive. I copied this design https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=543873&page=10 But I drilled a hole in the lid of my pot and injected close to the center of bag. After a couple of batches I had Arborfab build me a custom basket. Now I watch the basket to make sure the wort flows through the basket not over the top by adjusting pump output accordingly. I use an Avantco induction heater and have to manually watch the temps and adjust heat input. I have built 2 wort injectors out of 1/2" copper so far with different hole arrangements and will be building more. I average about 78% efficiency and use a .032 crush on the grain. Good luck and good brewing

 

[applescrap]

The word is passive, man i love that word. You either mash passively or actively. I believe in passive mashing and i will stand by that imo. I have heard the Australian inventor of biab (yes the inventor) talk and he passively mashes. So do most the guys at biabinfo. We all know the famous bobrews and he mashes passively, brulosophy has tested mash temps, and they, with debate hardly matter. Dont get me wrong im not against recirculation, i just think its unnecessary, imo, and imo not in the spirit of biab at least according to the inventor, who feels this process was meant to be easy and uncomplicated.


I mash in at 168, of course i do. The temp of the grain brings the mash down. Thats my strike temp. I stir the s..t out of it for 3 minutes or whatever and stick a handheld digi in the top middle. I dont use my pid probe, another debate! It says 152, i cover pot with big down jacket (unnecessary) and come back 45 minutes later. Stick probe in top and 150ish. Stir for 5 maybe ten minutes more and pull sac without a wenchs help . Doug was right, if you heat the bottom you must recirculate. All this fixing and configuring is not for me. Most biab brewers use a process similar to what i described. We heat the water, put the bag on, and let it sit. Something else must be going on. Best of luck.

 

[r8rphan]

I mash in at 168, of course i do. The temp of the grain brings the mash down. Thats my strike temp. I stir the s..t out of it for 3 minutes or whatever and stick a handheld digi in the top middle. I dont use my pid probe, another debate! It says 152, i cover pot with big down jacket (unnecessary) and come back 45 minutes later. Stick probe in top and 150ish. Stir for 5 maybe ten minutes more and pull sac without a wenchs help . Doug was right, if you heat the bottom you must recirculate. All this fixing and configuring is not for me. Most biab brewers use a process similar to what i described. We heat the water, put the bag on, and let it sit. Something else must be going on. Best of luck.

You're not understanding.. 168 was my temperature 'after' mash in.... I turned off the heater power and stirred for a good 10-15 minutes just to get it down under 160...

So I am getting striation of 16 degrees from the bottom of the kettle where the probe is to the top of the kettle where the top of the mash was...

Once I finished mash in and stirred the crap out of it, the probe (at the bottom of the keggle) was reading near 168 too..

 

[jekeane]

I run a 3 vessel eherms I found that in order to hit my initial mash temps I was having to strike hotter in this system to account for pump and tubing heat loss. The first few beers I like doughed in around 165° to get down to 152° once I started my pumps back up. Those beers were consistently under attenuated. I switched to doughing in a lot closer to my desired mash temp and then allowing the herms to bring me up to proper temps ofer a couple of minutes and my under attenuation issues stopped.

May be something to consider if you haven't.

 

[r8rphan]

I run a 3 vessel eherms I found that in order to hit my initial mash temps I was having to strike hotter in this system to account for pump and tubing heat loss. The first few beers I like doughed in around 165° to get down to 152° once I started my pumps back up. Those beers were consistently under attenuated. I switched to doughing in a lot closer to my desired mash temp and then allowing the herms to bring me up to proper temps ofer a couple of minutes and my under attenuation issues stopped.

May be something to consider if you haven't.

I'm having the opposite problem... or maybe you're saying the same thing?

In any event, I plan to try recirc (since I have all the stuff for it anyways) through the entire process, and will mash in low and raise the temp while recirculating...

 

[lschiavo]

I didn't read the whole thread but I cant help but worry that you are not getting accurate temp readings. What are you measuring your strike temp with?

 

[applescrap]

You're not understanding.. 168 was my temperature 'after' mash in.... I turned off the heater power and stirred for a good 10-15 minutes just to get it down under 160...

So I am getting striation of 16 degrees from the bottom of the kettle where the probe is to the top of the kettle where the top of the mash was...

Once I finished mash in and stirred the crap out of it, the probe (at the bottom of the keggle) was reading near 168 too..

Still no, imo. my buddy, and I am sure many more here, have let a mash rise. my buddy leaves a little heat under his kettle and i am sure it gets hot at the bottom. Plus i know he has let a mash rise. The only affect comes from his, at times, questionable recipes.

 

[jekeane]

Here's what I noticed last time I brewed.. I set the mash temp at 152 and let the system bring it to temp.. then I mashed in my crushed grains (ran through my 3 roller crankenstein 'twice' at the finest setting)... When I put the glass thermometer in, it read 168 degrees!

This is like the ideal 'sparge temp' not mash temp... So, I did what I could to get the temps down as quickly as possible, but the top of the mash was at like 165-168 for at least 10-15 mins.

So you are doughing in at or below 152° and trying to let your system bring you back up to 152° but because of something, possibly cavitation under the bag you are returning 168° wort to the top of the mash?

If that is the right problem it seems like easiest solution would be moving your pid to the return valve right before the wort enters the kettle. That way your controller shouldn't be letting the wort get to anything above your mash temperature.

In my system the Mash probe is in a T on the Wort out of the mash tun. That probe will read 10° cooler than the wort on the top of my grain bed for several minutes until the returned wort has raised the whole bed temperature.

In a herms setup you make sure the return temperature stays at or below mash by regulating the HLT probe.

For your setup it sounds like you need to consider probe placement and possibly stir more frequently help disburse the return wort.

I did a fair amount of biab but never bothered with recirculation so I may be off base here.

 

[doug293cz]

So you are doughing in at or below 152° and trying to let your system bring you back up to 152° but because of something, possibly cavitation under the bag you are returning 168° wort to the top of the mash?

If that is the right problem it seems like easiest solution would be moving your pid to the return valve right before the wort enters the kettle. That way your controller shouldn't be letting the wort get to anything above your mash temperature.

In my system the Mash probe is in a T on the Wort out of the mash tun. That probe will read 10° cooler than the wort on the top of my grain bed for several minutes until the returned wort has raised the whole bed temperature.

In a herms setup you make sure the return temperature stays at or below mash by regulating the HLT probe.

For your setup it sounds like you need to consider probe placement and possibly stir more frequently help disburse the return wort.

I did a fair amount of biab but never bothered with recirculation so I may be off base here.

No, in a RIMS or element in MLT system, you want the PID temp probe located where the wort will be the hottest, which will be right next to the heating element. This is to prevent overheating the wort, and to minimize the time lag between actual temp changes and when they are sensed by the probe. Time lags in sensing lead to temp overshoot. The longer the lag, the bigger the overshoot. So, for a RIMS you want the temp sensor right at the tip of the heating element at the exit end of the RIMS tube. For an element in the bottom of an MLT, you want the temp probe as close as you can get it to the element, preferably between the element and the outlet port to the recirc pump. You are still likely to have a temp delta between the PID sense probe, and the bulk mash. For that reason you need the capability to determine what the typical delta is, and then offset your temp setpoint in the PID by that amount. This is similar to what brewers with HERMS have to do.

Brew on

 

[jekeane]

No, in a RIMS or element in MLT system, you want the PID temp probe located where the wort will be the hottest, which will be right next to the heating element. This is to prevent overheating the wort, and to minimize the time lag between actual temp changes and when they are sensed by the probe. Time lags in sensing lead to temp overshoot. The longer the lag, the bigger the overshoot. So, for a RIMS you want the temp sensor right at the tip of the heating element at the exit end of the RIMS tube. For an element in the bottom of an MLT, you want the temp probe as close as you can get it to the element, preferably between the element and the outlet port to the recirc pump. You are still likely to have a temp delta between the PID sense probe, and the bulk mash. For that reason you need the capability to determine what the typical delta is, and then offset your temp setpoint in the PID by that amount. This is similar to what brewers with HERMS have to do.

Brew on

Brew on

So then if his probe is located in the correct spot and his return is way over his setpoint of 152° is his setup just broken?