4 days and no change in gravity - 34/70

[Shwagger]

I pitched 2 rehydrated packs of 34/70 into a 52 degree, 1.054 OG red lager 4 days ago and it has not dropped a gravity point yet. Nothing different about how I brewed or cleaned etc. Only thing I can think of is that it was not at the same temperature as the wort when I pitched and could have shocked it. It was probably low 70s or in the 60s, though.

There's a lot of yeast cake at the bottom of the fermenter and I'd hate to repitch and get an even bigger cake to deal with and lose more beer in the end. But, it might be the only thing. I'm thinking a liquid yeast this time. Thoughts? Wait longer for the slowest lager yeast in history?

 

[chezhed]

hmmm, Fermentis recommends rehydrating at 73F so it doesn't sound like you shocked anything.... I've always thought this was a slow yeast....

REHYDRATION INSTRUCTIONS:
Sprinkle the yeast in minimum 10 times its weight of sterile water or wort at 23°C ± 3°C (73°F ± 6°F). Leave to rest 15 to 30 minutes.
Gently stir for 30 minutes, and pitch the resultant cream into the fermentation vessel.
Alternatively, pitch the yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of the wort is above 20°C (68°F). Progressively
sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the yeast covers all the surface of wort available in order to avoid clumps. Leave for 30 minutes,
then mix the wort using aeration or by wort addition.

 

[Shwagger]

I see from that it says pitch at 68 degrees wort temp. Maybe I should ramp it up to mid 68 to get it started then back it down to 52. I pitched at 52 and it has been set at 52 for the past 4 days.

 

[Smellyglove]

It should be able to handle 52F. I've done doppelbock at flat 45 with it. Id just play the waiting game for a few more days.

 

[Shwagger]

When is the cutoff point for wort before any bad things start to happen? That is, if the yeast doesn't grab ahold?

 

[Smellyglove]

I'd say you are past it if the first pitch tried to do "something", as oxygen is most likely depleted. Regarding a repitch.

However. Have you totally degassed the sample and measured at the correct temperature? When I measure my lagers I either just cover the sample tube with foil and let it sit for one day, or heat it up to get rid of co2, then cool it to hydrometer reference temperature. If you have not degassed it you will read a way higher reading than what is reality.

And if you are measuring with a refractometer switch to hydrometer.

From the info you provided I'd say that you should see some activity. This leads me to think that there's an error in your measurement. Not even a visual sign of fermentation? Foam on top?

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

34/70 is slow for me...and starts off real slow to. I wouldn't sweat it just yet. You could try raising the temp to force some action. That yeast is rated for a huge temp span. I've been starting my lagers at ale temps and let them naturally drop to give things a bump start.....White Labs actually recommends this method

 

[Shwagger]

I'd say you are past it if the first pitch tried to do "something", as oxygen is most likely depleted. Regarding a repitch.

However. Have you totally degassed the sample and measured at the correct temperature? When I measure my lagers I either just cover the sample tube with foil and let it sit for one day, or heat it up to get rid of co2, then cool it to hydrometer reference temperature. If you have not degassed it you will read a way higher reading than what is reality.

And if you are measuring with a refractometer switch to hydrometer.

From the info you provided I'd say that you should see some activity. This leads me to think that there's an error in your measurement. Not even a visual sign of fermentation? Foam on top?

I take a sample and let it sit out at room temperature for a few hours and then take a temp and hydro reading,adjusting for temperature if needed. It's usually pretty accurate.

No foam or bubbles. The yeast did bubble a bit in the rehydration phase. Or creamed as it were.

 

[Smellyglove]

With lagers you have more co2 than with ales, just make sure its degassed.

 

[beermanpete]

Is there any evidence of a krausen? If there is more yeast at the bottom that you pitched there should be some foam or a ring of yeast around the fermenter at the top of the wort/beer.

 

[Smellyglove]

That one is probably hard to tell due to trub..

 

[Shwagger]

No krausen.

If there is no activity after 7 days, I'll have to figure something out. Slow is one thing but this is crazy

 

[Shwagger]

I take that back. I'm going to trust in the yeast and my methods and let it ride for 2 or 3 weeks and then check the gravity.
Sit back and relax and go fishing

 

[jfolks]

Surprised no one has asked yet: did you check the expiration date on the yeast packets? Could be your problem...

 

[Shwagger]

I did as I have gotten old yeast before and I bought each pack from a different store. Both were well ahead of their expiration dates. Several months away still

 

[dmtaylor]

When is the cutoff point for wort before any bad things start to happen? That is, if the yeast doesn't grab ahold?

36 hours in my opinion.

The funny thing about W-34/70 is that it performs best in the 60s. Around 65 F is a good temperature for it. Brulosophy.com loves this yeast and uses it warm quite often with no perceivable negative effects. My experience says the same. So maybe just warm it up and give the fermenter a good swirl to get the yeast back into suspension.

 

[dmtaylor]

I take a sample and let it sit out at room temperature for a few hours...

AHA! Don't wait a few hours! Check gravity immediately after sampling! The alcohol is probably evaporating away, messing up your reading!

 

[passedpawn]

I make lagers all the time. I've got lagers fermenting with 34/70, S189, and Wyeast mexican lager all at this moment. I rehydrate dry (and make starters with liquid). I pitch the morning after I brew to make sure the wort's at 50F, which is where I ferment for 3 weeks (last week I increase the temp).

If I don't see some sort of krausen in 3 days I add more yeast, no questions asked. I've only done that a couple of times though.

 

[passedpawn]

I pitched 2 rehydrated packs of 34/70 into a 52 degree, 1.054 OG red lager 4 days ago and it has not dropped a gravity point yet. Nothing different about how I brewed or cleaned etc. Only thing I can think of is that it was not at the same temperature as the wort when I pitched and could have shocked it. It was probably low 70s or in the 60s, though.

There's a lot of yeast cake at the bottom of the fermenter and I'd hate to repitch and get an even bigger cake to deal with and lose more beer in the end. But, it might be the only thing. I'm thinking a liquid yeast this time. Thoughts? Wait longer for the slowest lager yeast in history?

If you're measuring gravity every time, you're just asking for problems. Just look for krausen to know if it's fermenting.

Are you fermenting in buckets? I have always preferred clear fermentors just for the purpose of knowing fermentation kicked off. I really really hate opening them until I'm pretty sure all's done; IOW, 2 weeks for ales, 3 for lagers.

 

[Shwagger]

I have a fastferment so nits kind of clear. The yeast cake is easily seen at the bottom. I'm just going to let it go and see what happens. The yeast is viable in my opinion, I don't believe 2 packs from different stores are both bad.

Also, when I take wort to read and let it sit for a few hours, it's always covered with foil lol. Sanitized foil, of course. The method has never let me down.

I think I just have a weird brew this time around with no krausen, no bubbles, and an extremely slow working yeast. That's my opinion and I'm going down with the ship!!!

 

[chezhed]

How are you sampling from the FastFermenter? Do you have the sample port or drawing another way? Curious....

 

[Shwagger]

I installed a sample port per the FF instructions

 

[chezhed]

I'd wait too...seven days at least and then maybe try some Yeast Energizer and possibly warm it up before I'd pitch more yeast.

 

[passedpawn]

I'd wait too...seven days at least and then maybe try some Yeast Energizer and possibly warm it up before I'd pitch more yeast.

What's the downside to pitching more yeast?

 

[chezhed]

Some say overpitch can contribute to off flavors....or you could create a big blow up....it would just be my last choice.

 

[passedpawn]

Some say overpitch can contribute to off flavors....or you could create a big blow up....it would just be my last choice.

I doubt his concern right now is a big blow off I've never had any blowoff ever with any lager. Ales... I've got ceilings that are still stained. Regarding off flavors from overpitching, that's not likely unless he's pitching on a prior yeast cake, which I've done. No off flavors to my palate, but maybe there something to that.

Wait much longer and something else will ferment that beer. There's this idea that boiling and practicing good sanitation ensures there's not bacteria, but I can assure you bacteria is EVERYWHERE and gets into everything. It's riding on the dust in the air. It's in your fermentor every time.

The only reason the bacteria in there doesn't spoil your beer is that the yeast beat it to the punch: ABV builds up quickly and inhibits bacterial growth, oxygen is depleted by the yeast. Definitely want a quick start.

I've had mold grow at the bottom of my freezer that I had near freezing. Life finds a way.

 

[Shwagger]

After ignoring it for almost 3 weeks, the SG today is 1.019....

Not one bubble or any noticeable krausen. I don't get it. It did its job I suppose. Very weird. I think I'll need to check for leaks on the lid of my fastferment. Or just go with it. I dunno.


Oh and it tastes like smithwicks. It's incredibly good