3-in-1 "Boil Kettle, Jacketed Chiller, Conical Fermenter" by Brewha

[hgearle]

For your input on the whirlpool does the wort simply splash down from the lid port back into the BIAC?

Does this set up generate enough spinning in the wort to keep the hops in suspension?

I've had lots of issues with clogged pumps when intaking from the port at the bottom when I use more than 8oz of hops in my whirlpool.

Hello NHBrews....Look at my post #1043 for a picture of whirlpooling from the racking port through the top using a whirlpooling arm that b1v1r fabricated. He has a detailed list of parts in post 652 on page 66. All the items for the whirlpool arm can be bought from brewhardware.com. The advantage of this setup is that it is height adjustable. I have always done 10 gallon batches and have not had to adjust it.

I started using hopshot for bittering hops to lessen the amount of trub in the kettle (although a small amount). For all my other hop additions, I usually just pitch them in without a bag ( I use pellets). My last IPA batch had 15 ounces of hops spinning in the whirlpool with no problem. Before I hook up the pump, I make sure I purge the racking port of trub then hook up the pump.

Gotta say....the BIAC is awesome.

 

[NHBrews]

Hello NHBrews....Look at my post #1043 for a picture of whirlpooling from the racking port through the top using a whirlpooling arm that b1v1r fabricated. He has a detailed list of parts in post 652 on page 66. All the items for the whirlpool arm can be bought from brewhardware.com. The advantage of this setup is that it is height adjustable. I have always done 10 gallon batches and have not had to adjust it.

I started using hopshot for bittering hops to lessen the amount of trub in the kettle (although a small amount). For all my other hop additions, I usually just pitch them in without a bag ( I use pellets). My last IPA batch had 15 ounces of hops spinning in the whirlpool with no problem. Before I hook up the pump, I make sure I purge the racking port of trub then hook up the pump.

Gotta say....the BIAC is awesome.

Thanks hgearle, this is very helpful. I will have to build b1v1r's whirlpool arm, that should make a big difference. I already have the racking arm for the racking port.

I just brewed a low OG porter and added the hops using a mesh bag which significantly reduced the trub. I may start doing this for my IPA boil additions and leave the whirlpool/dry hop additions loose.

 

[Jimmy82]

Anyone looking to buy a BREWHA mash colander for their medium BIAC? I've got one that I'm looking to sell.

 

[limulus]

Anyone looking to buy a BREWHA mash colander for their medium BIAC? I've got one that I'm looking to sell.

You were one of the earlier posters to this long thread, number 29 to be exact. So what have you done to not need the mash colander? If you were selling the fermenter section, I may be a buyer.

 

[Jimmy82]

You were one of the earlier posters to this long thread, number 29 to be exact. So what have you done to not need the mash colander? If you were selling the fermenter section, I may be a buyer.

I'm still using the colander, but looking to switch to a 2nd vessel for mashing. I'd like to brew 15+ gallon batches, and the colander generally limits me to 10 gallons.

And I don't think I'll be selling my BIAC any time soon - I actually purchased a Large 4-in-1 a few months back

 

[limulus]

Now that's more like it! Are you brewing commercially now?

 

[Jimmy82]

Now that's more like it! Are you brewing commercially now?

Sort of..

I started a small Kombucha brewery, but still brewing beer at home! I'm planning to do a beer & kombucha blend at some point, though.

 

[limulus]

Congratulations and good luck. I also stumbled into an opportunity to open a brewery on the lower level of a winery in NC. I was not planning to do anything like that until 2021 when I plan to leave my corporate position but it is actually happening now.

 

[mdime]

I'm still using the colander, but looking to switch to a 2nd vessel for mashing. I'd like to brew 15+ gallon batches, and the colander generally limits me to 10 gallons.

There's another way to increase capacity and mash in the BIAC, although it still means ditching the colander. I put a slight bend in the heating element and use one of these false bottoms with a BIAB bag. Not only do you gain space by lowering the element but it also eliminates the dead space below the colander.

I originally went this direction not to increase mash capacity but to create a better filter bed and eliminate the delicate flow balance that the colander seemed to require. It's lighter to lift and easier to squeeze the grains and has definitely made my brew day easier.

 

[cuda6pak]

Wow, congrats to the both of you guys! Feel free to throw out any details of your ventures for those of us still dreaming/planning

 

[cuda6pak]

There's another way to increase capacity and mash in the BIAC, although it still means ditching the colander. I put a slight bend in the heating element and use one of these false bottoms with a BIAB bag. Not only do you gain space by lowering the element but it also eliminates the dead space below the colander.

I originally went this direction not to increase mash capacity but to create a better filter bed and eliminate the delicate flow balance that the colander seemed to require. It's lighter to lift and easier to squeeze the grains and has definitely made my brew day easier.

Have a picture of your setup by chance? Curious how you recirculate with the pump without the valve mount from the colander.

 

[mdime]

I don't have a picture and I just brewed last night so it might be a while before I can take one. I don't do anything special with the return hose, though. I use a hose with a 90deg fitting on one end and normally just hang it over the edge of the BIAC so that the end is on the top of the grain bed and then place the lid on top. It's not totally closed but with the temperature control I'm not too concerned about the heat loss. I've also used a hose with no fitting before and just stuck it through one of the lid ports. That way the lid closes completely.

 

[NHBrews]

I don't have a picture and I just brewed last night so it might be a while before I can take one. I don't do anything special with the return hose, though. I use a hose with a 90deg fitting on one end and normally just hang it over the edge of the BIAC so that the end is on the top of the grain bed and then place the lid on top. It's not totally closed but with the temperature control I'm not too concerned about the heat loss. I've also used a hose with no fitting before and just stuck it through one of the lid ports. That way the lid closes completely.

Do you use any float switch on your pump to make sure your element doesn't get exposed? I had one of my first batches ruined because the mash colander wasn't draining fast enough. Is the false bottom just more reliable?

 

[limulus]

Do you use any float switch on your pump to make sure your element doesn't get exposed? I had one of my first batches ruined because the mash colander wasn't draining fast enough. Is the false bottom just more reliable?

A float switch is a good idea. I burned out an element circulating my mash about two years ago. I wound up buying an element that was a little shorter and I was able to bend it downward a little. Being shorter and bending it down has helped keep it submerged.

 

[xico]

Instead of controlling the fluid below, I control it above using one above the grain bed. If you go back a few pages I added photos of the equipment I added to the system. Once you know the volume it takes to keep the element submerged you work backwards from there. kgs of grain, absorption, mash and sparge water mostly used just as sparge, and you have an effective volume to work with.

I mash with the colander raised to the lower handles to make large batches (up to 75 liters, 80 Liters if I am boiling some in a separate kettle) and I typically dough in with about 55-65 liters in the conical, depending on target gravity along with sparge using the jacket and additional vessel ported into the water outtake of the jacket.

My guess is for less volume you would want to combine the mash and sparge fluids into one process and recirculate the mash. By doing this you can use the soft tubing return to the mash tun as your water level. Simply turn the pump off and you can see the level of the wort under the tun. I keep it above the point where the conical bottom pulls inward.

 

[mdime]

Do you use any float switch on your pump to make sure your element doesn't get exposed? I had one of my first batches ruined because the mash colander wasn't draining fast enough. Is the false bottom just more reliable?

No, there's no float switch. The main reason I went away from the colander was the inconsistency of flow rate and the need to constantly watch it to prevent the level from getting below the element. The flow is so much better with the BIAB bag that there's little chance of that happening now.

One factor that really helps with this is the elimination of the liquid volume between the bottom of the colander and the element. In my setup that volume of liquid is essentially added to the grain, making for a thinner mash which is less likely to get compacted. I brewed a hefe this weekend with 60% wheat and no rice hulls and had no problems with flow at all.

 

[xico]

I like the false bottom approach. How close is the element to the steel? Is there risk of scorching the bag and grain?

 

[limulus]

No, there's no float switch. The main reason I went away from the colander was the inconsistency of flow rate and the need to constantly watch it to prevent the level from getting below the element. The flow is so much better with the BIAB bag that there's little chance of that happening now.

One factor that really helps with this is the elimination of the liquid volume between the bottom of the colander and the element. In my setup that volume of liquid is essentially added to the grain, making for a thinner mash which is less likely to get compacted. I brewed a hefe this weekend with 60% wheat and no rice hulls and had no problems with flow at all.

Eureka! This is a fantastic idea. I ordered a large bag from Wilser earlier this year: http://biabbags.webs.com/ I was using it to line the colander which kept the holes in the colander from clogging. But that space between the colander and the element limits what you can do. But eliminating the colander and only using the bag is something I never considered I can't believe I didn't think of that :smack:

I'm going to go into my garage and take a photo of my bag inside my BIAC w/o the colander.

 

[limulus]

I had my bag made on the large side and it touches the element. But, I could use a tie-down strap which I have plenty of to secure it above the element.

 

[mdime]

I like the false bottom approach. How close is the element to the steel? Is there risk of scorching the bag and grain?

I think the false bottom sits about an inch from the element so there's not much risk of scorching. It depends on how low you can get the element by bending it. I bent mine then measured the diameter just above.

 

[limulus]

There's another way to increase capacity and mash in the BIAC, although it still means ditching the colander. I put a slight bend in the heating element and use one of these false bottoms with a BIAB bag. Not only do you gain space by lowering the element but it also eliminates the dead space below the colander.

I originally went this direction not to increase mash capacity but to create a better filter bed and eliminate the delicate flow balance that the colander seemed to require. It's lighter to lift and easier to squeeze the grains and has definitely made my brew day easier.

The whole bag thing was not making sense to me until I went back a page and saw your post about the false bottom. Did you order with or w/o the legs? I may soon turn mine into a pilot brewery. I suppose for 10gal batches, I'll be OK but for 5gal batches there is the problem with the space under the colander that I want to eliminate.

 

[mdime]

Eureka! This is a fantastic idea. I ordered a large bag from Wilser earlier this year: http://biabbags.webs.com/ I was using it to line the colander which kept the holes in the colander from clogging. But that space between the colander and the element limits what you can do. But eliminating the colander and only using the bag is something I never considered I can't believe I didn't think of that :smack:

I'm going to go into my garage and take a photo of my bag inside my BIAC w/o the colander.

I initially bought the bag with the same idea, to use it with the colander hoping to get a better flow from the grainbed. It didn't help and each time I brewed it drove me a little crazy that I was using a full batch volume of water but still struggling with a thick mash and poor recirculation. As much as I love the BIAC, I have to admit that it's a bit of a poor combination of a no sparge system with a conventional sparge false bottom design. Maybe the wedge wire design is better than the original design I've got but I still think it's got the same drawbacks.

I've probably brewed a half dozen batches now without the colander and at this point don't know why I would ever use it again. The process is easier, I get better efficiency, and I don't have to deal with lifting and cleaning another huge piece of metal.

 

[mdime]

The whole bag thing was not making sense to me until I went back a page and saw your post about the false bottom. Did you order with or w/o the legs? I may soon turn mine into a pilot brewery. I suppose for 10gal batches, I'll be OK but for 5gal batches there is the problem with the space under the colander that I want to eliminate.

The one I bought had screws for legs but I took them out so that it sits right on the inside of the cone. It can tilt a little bit but I've got the element bent so that it's below the thermowell and angled in that direction. I'll have to take a picture when it's not in use.

 

[cuda6pak]

Do you leave the false bottom in there through boiling/fermentations?

 

[mdime]

Do you leave the false bottom in there through boiling/fermentations?

I prefer to take it our before boiling because it's easier to clean. I've left it in through fermentation a few times on accident and the only problem was that it was covered in yeast. Not a big deal but extra clean up.

 

[limulus]

The one I bought had screws for legs but I took them out so that it sits right on the inside of the cone. It can tilt a little bit but I've got the element bent so that it's below the thermowell and angled in that direction. I'll have to take a picture when it's not in use.

Thanks. I had to replace my element a couple of years ago because it ran dry. The one I bought was all stainless and the same wattage but a little shorter and I also bent is downward a bit.

One could save a lot of money buying one of these w/o the colander. Do you have something attached to the false bottom to remove it or are you just leaving it in until fermentation is complete?

 

[mdime]

One could save a lot of money buying one of these w/o the colander. Do you have something attached to the false bottom to remove it or are you just leaving it in until fermentation is complete?

I just use a big stainless spoon and tongs to fish it out before the boil starts.

 

[mdime]

I've probably brewed a half dozen batches now without the colander and at this point don't know why I would ever use it again. The process is easier, I get better efficiency, and I don't have to deal with lifting and cleaning another huge piece of metal.

I know it's bad form to reply to one's own post but I got to thinking about what I said and it's not entirely true that I don't know why I'd use the colander again. I've been doing mainly 5 and 6 gallon batches in a medium BIAC so as I pull the bag out there's plenty of headspace to squeeze and let it drain without making a mess. I can imagine that when doing a full 15 gallon high gravity batch it may be tricky to lift the bag out without getting wort all over the place. In that situation it would probably be a toss up between trying to get it to work and using the colander and, truthfully, I'd still probably try the bag. :rockin:

 

[limulus]

I installed an overhead electric winch and I would probably find a way to use it to lift my bag.

 

[mdime]

I installed an overhead electric winch and I would probably find a way to use it to lift my bag.

I've got an overhead wench as well and I just hook it to a quick knot tied in the bag's pull string. I was thinking more in terms of the bag not holding the shape of the vessel as you lift it over the top edge and it drips over the side. For a 5 gallon batch you can lift it up out of the wort but still in the vessel and squeeze it there. If the wort level is up closer to the top of the vessel it would just get a little trickier because the bag would start to bulge as it comes out.

 

[hgearle]

I usually condition my grain (about 3.2 ounces of water mist sprayed per 10 pounds of grain), run thru my electric 200 rpm mill after 10 minutes; use 1 pound of rice hulls per 10 pounds of grain (usually 3 pounds as my grain bill is about 33 lbs for an 11 gallon batch), and my flow rate is very good. I don't see any benefit to using a bag, as it seems to me (in my humble experience), that the bag is the same as the colander. I use the second false bottom that limulus suggested, and have never had a problem with circulation. Many of you have brewed many more batches than I, but this is my experience.

Secondly. Is squeezing the grain bag a good idea???... I read that you can squeeze hop bags to get the liquid out of them, but you should NOT squeeze grain bags.
Per Mr Wizard from BYO magazine: "By squeezing the grain bag more trub and cloudy wort is moved into the wort. This is why gently rinsing the bag with hot water is suggested instead of squeezing; it also extracts more of the good stuff from the grain bag. An argument could also be made that squeezing the grain bag may also extract more polyphenols from the specialty malts. I am not sure that this actually happens, but it is another reason not to squeeze the bag. You can also end up with some small malt particles in the wort if your mechanical method is too aggressive. https://byo.com/all-grain-brewing/item/1924-squeezing-grain-bags-mr-wizard

 

[limulus]

I usually condition my grain (about 3.2 ounces of water mist sprayed per 10 pounds of grain), run thru my electric 200 rpm mill after 10 minutes; use 1 pound of rice hulls per 10 pounds of grain (usually 3 pounds as my grain bill is about 33 lbs for an 11 gallon batch), and my flow rate is very good. I don't see any benefit to using a bag, as it seems to me (in my humble experience), that the bag is the same as the colander. I use the second false bottom that limulus suggested, and have never had a problem with circulation. Many of you have brewed many more batches than I, but this is my experience.

Secondly. Is squeezing the grain bag a good idea???... I read that you can squeeze hop bags to get the liquid out of them, but you should NOT squeeze grain bags.
Per Mr Wizard from BYO magazine: "By squeezing the grain bag more trub and cloudy wort is moved into the wort. This is why gently rinsing the bag with hot water is suggested instead of squeezing; it also extracts more of the good stuff from the grain bag. An argument could also be made that squeezing the grain bag may also extract more polyphenols from the specialty malts. I am not sure that this actually happens, but it is another reason not to squeeze the bag. You can also end up with some small malt particles in the wort if your mechanical method is too aggressive. https://byo.com/all-grain-brewing/item/1924-squeezing-grain-bags-mr-wizard

I have had better results since I started using that false bottom too. But I think the point of eliminating the colander is to get the grain deeper into the system leaving less of a gap between the bottom of the colander and the element. That reduces the chance of running the element dry. Especially for 5gal batches in the medium BIAC.

 

[limulus]

Here it is if anyone is interested. It fits right into the colander and helps eliminate clogging of the perforated colander bottom:
https://www.homebrewing.org/SS-Pico-Style-False-Bottom-bottom-only-No-Feet_p_4587.html

 

[mdime]

Secondly. Is squeezing the grain bag a good idea???... I read that you can squeeze hop bags to get the liquid out of them, but you should NOT squeeze grain bags.

That only applies to extract brewing when you are merely soaking a bag of specialty grains for flavor and color. With a true BIAB mash it is standard practice to squeeze the grain bag.

 

[NHBrews]

Thanks all for the great ideas on using false bottoms/bags.

Thanks. I had to replace my element a couple of years ago because it ran dry. The one I bought was all stainless and the same wattage but a little shorter and I also bent is downward a bit. ?

Any special method to bend the heating element without damaging? Would like to do this with mine so I can brew 5gal batches with my old BIAB bag and a false bottom.

 

[hgearle]

Thanks all for the great ideas on using false bottoms/bags.

Any special method to bend the heating element without damaging? Would like to do this with mine so I can brew 5gal batches with my old BIAB bag and a false bottom.

Nathan told me when I bought my BIAC to simply reach into the kettle and push down on the heating element to bend it. It won't bend very far (less than and inch I think) with the heating element provided by Nathan, but limulus' aftermarket heating element is shorter which may be better for clearance on the side of the BIAC.

 

[mdime]

Any special method to bend the heating element without damaging?

I clamped mine between two pieces of wood right where I wanted the bend to be then just bent it. I did a little at a time and checked the fit in the BIAC before proceeding with more.

 

[xico]

Here it is if anyone is interested. It fits right into the colander and helps eliminate clogging of the perforated colander bottom:
https://www.homebrewing.org/SS-Pico-Style-False-Bottom-bottom-only-No-Feet_p_4587.html

Thanks for this suggestion, that link is the exact unit that fits to our colander? Sometimes the mill runs the grain a little too much for my liking (milled by a brewmate) and I'd like the extra protection.

Can I ask, is getting rid of any gap between the grains and the element purely to avoid the element running dry?

 

[limulus]

Nathan told me when I bought my BIAC to simply reach into the kettle and push down on the heating element to bend it. It won't bend very far (less than and inch I think) with the heating element provided by Nathan, but limulus' aftermarket heating element is shorter which may be better for clearance on the side of the BIAC.

I clamped mine between two pieces of wood right where I wanted the bend to be then just bent it. I did a little at a time and checked the fit in the BIAC before proceeding with more.

I got my new one from Bobby M at Brew Hardware. He is a long time forum member.
https://www.brewhardware.com/category_s/1902.htm

 

[limulus]

Thanks for this suggestion, that link is the exact unit that fits to our colander? Sometimes the mill runs the grain a little too much for my liking (milled by a brewmate) and I'd like the extra protection.

Can I ask, is getting rid of any gap between the grains and the element purely to avoid the element running dry?

This fits into the bottom of the colander. The other method that Mdime is now using eliminates the colander. He is using a false bottom that sits above the element and allows a bag to sit on top of the false bottom. That is designed to eliminate the gap between the bottom of the colander and the element. It would definitely help prevent running an element dry.