3-in-1 "Boil Kettle, Jacketed Chiller, Conical Fermenter" by Brewha

[jubalon]

Jubalon on your BCS can you share any best practices for temp management? I have a full BCS control nit I have been slowly modifying to work with the BIAC and I think, but I am not positive I am now able to get it to cycle the element at lower power (3%) when I dont want to scorch anything. I am curios what others may be using in this area outside of Nathan's model (which is severely lacking)

TL;DR: Aside from the boil State, all of my hot side temp control is via PID with the pump On - except for during kettle souring, where PID is used but the pump is off. Cold side is all Hysteresis/Cool. I use the element kit supplied by Nathan and have had no problems with scorching. Read on if you want details.

Caveat, I don't think I'm using the BCS to its full potential wrt to automation (I change between states and processes manually), so I'm sure process improvements exist. This works for me, though. Also please note I use a control panel with physical switches that allow me to interrupt the output signals from the BCS as a backup safety measure. I'm also going to assume you're familiar with BCS terminology and wiring practices. With those disclaimers out of the way, here goes...

I've got three Processes defined: Mash, Boil, and Fermentation. I have one Temperature Probe and two Outputs (Pump and Element) which control SSRs that in turn control electrical outlets mounted to my panel.

Mash: Two states, Strike Heating and Mashing. In both, I have my pump output in Direct Mode, permanently set to On. Element output is in PID Mode, set to whatever I want my strike or mash temp to be depending on what state I'm in.

Boil: Three states, Boil Heating, Boil, Hop Stand. Again, pump output is Direct On in all three. In Boil Heating the element output is PID controlled with a setpoint of 208*F; in Boil I use a 75% duty cycle to keep a vigorous boil; for Hop Stand the element out is PID controlled to 160*F.

Fermentation: For this I disconnect the Chugger pump from my BCS-controlled outlet and plug in a submersible pump which sits in an igloo cooler full of ice water. Pump out goes to the jacket inlet, and jacket outlet goes back to the cooler courtesy of silicone tubing. On the BCS I have the pump Output in Hysteresis/Cool Mode, set to whatever temp I want with a 0.5 degree Swing. I have a few different States set up with some of my frequently used temps, and a Cold Crash state preset to 45*F.

 

[hgearle]

I currently use the system that Nathan sells, which is the 10G BIAC and the Lindr chiller. Got to say that the setup is pretty awesome except that mash temperature control is somewhat inconsistent in that actual mash temperatures varies significantly throughout the mash even though the temperature controller says it is at a specific temperature, ie. 152F. I have a 2 foot long temperature probe sold by Thermoworks where I can measure the temperature at all depths in the mash. The temperature can be 154F at the surface, 147F at the base of the mash-tun, and all temps in between. With 18 gallons of water, 32 pounds of grain, and 2 pounds of rice hulls, getting a consistent 152F throughout the mash-tun is difficult. Just because the temperature controller says 152F and the recirculation looks good, doesn’t mean that the entire mash is at 152F. The variation in the mash temps have not effected the amazing quality of beer I can make with this system.

What I have been doing is mashing in with 168F water with the 34 pounds of grain and hulls, and keeping the temperature controller at about 157F to get a grain temperature near 152 (BTW, 18 gallons of water and 34 pounds of grain maxes out the 10G BIAC). I stir the mash about 4 times during the hour. After an hour, I start raising the temperature by a few degrees every 5 minutes or so until I get to 174F on the controller. The grain temperature never gets past about 167F all the while I am raising the controller temperature. I have done thirteen 10 gallon batches now in my BIAC and the results are consistent.

Temperature control with the chiller and during fermentation is excellent, within 1 degree. I normally chill the wort with Chicago city water to near fermentation temps, then hook it up to the chiller. Precise fermentation control is achieved by using the chiller, and using the heating probe set to 3% power setting. I only use one or the other, but because my basement is near 66F, I have to switch to the heating element near the end of fermentation to raise the temps to 67F and above to finish off.

When fermentation is done (I usually wait for 2 weeks), I set the temperature controller to chill the wort to 37F. After a day or two, I generally fine with gelatin and leave it for 2 more days at 37F (this is the lowest setting I can achieve with the water chiller). Then rack the clear beer to 2 corny kegs.

I recently had a problem with the chiller that confused me. My chiller sat on the floor and for the first 11 batches the system worked as advertised. Then I started getting back-flow from the jacket into the chiller through the input hose when the temperature controller shut off the chiller. The result was 2 gallons of water into the overflow bucket, then icing of the coils in the chiller the next time the chiller was turned on. The fix (Nathan’s advice) was to elevate the chiller to be at or slightly above the jacket so the back-flow does not happen. That fixed the problem.

Have any of you experienced the same things I have???

 

[xico]

Apologies if I missed it, but what are you currently planning on using for logging?

This is my first run with the system. It was clunky to get started to say the least but I will be able to attach SSRs, solenoids, many more sensors (wireless hydrometer is on the list), and store the data on a Raspberry Pi. The reading is from the new thermowell I had made that fits both sensors for the Aubrey ETC and the BrewPi.

As per the conversation regarding temp fluctuations in the mash, I will have to examine this more closely my next brew day. A 10 degree difference might say to me there may be some channeling going on where flow is rushing past sections of your grain bed. You may not have it as bad as dough balls, but overmixing, suction from recirc, and a host of other possibilities could be reducing the temp distribution. In a conventional system with no recirc during the mash, these cold spots are common enough but I would be surprised to have such a large range in the mash with constant recirc.

I am pulling an average of 82-83% batch efficiency off the system. I stopped recirculating into an open line in the mash vessel. I got channeling from the flow and needed to babysit it to make sure as density increased that the flow was consistent. Now I have an automatic valve I adjust to 2 inches above the grain bed, and hook up a 4 way manifold and the grain bed doesn't budge through sparge.

 

[CamCan]

what valve are you using to control the flow?

 

[cuda6pak]

Interested in that setup as well, any pics?

 

[mdime]

I recently had a problem with the chiller that confused me. My chiller sat on the floor and for the first 11 batches the system worked as advertised. Then I started getting back-flow from the jacket into the chiller through the input hose when the temperature controller shut off the chiller. The result was 2 gallons of water into the overflow bucket, then icing of the coils in the chiller the next time the chiller was turned on. The fix (Nathan’s advice) was to elevate the chiller to be at or slightly above the jacket so the back-flow does not happen. That fixed the problem.

Have any of you experienced the same things I have???

I've been using the chiller raised barely off of the ground for the past year and haven't had any problems with over flow. The key is to secure the end of the return hose so that it's completely under the tank water level. This prevents the siphon effect from pulling water from the BIAC jacket to the tank.

As for mash stratification I can't really comment because I've never probed the temp in different areas. I also stopped using the mash colander completely in favor of a large BIAB bag. By adding a SS rack that sits just above the element I can use an XXL Wilser BIAB bag. It's provides better filtering than the colander, makes the grain easier to squeeze, and is much easier to handle.

When doing a smaller batch with the colander I found that I really had to monitor the pump flow rate to prevent the water level from falling below the heating element. With the BIAB bag I haven't had this problem at all, even with a high wheat content grain bill.

 

[xico]

I don't like name dropping the folk I got it from, they don't need any help getting play time. But I looked for alternatives and nothing is steel. Blichmann Auto Sparge attached to a tri-clover fitting with a 1/2" FPT threading so the whole unit can be attached in one go.

I am brewing on Friday and will take photos to show the set-up.

 

[Winger22]

I have been reading thru the thread again for mention of using a bag in the colander. I've done 8 batches in my medium BIAC and waiting for the raised colander to drain is a PIA. Plus I think dumping a bag and cleaning would be easier than a colander. Anyone have experience with a bag? If so how did it work.

 

[xico]

I currently use the system that Nathan sells, which is the 10G BIAC and the Lindr chiller. Got to say that the setup is pretty awesome except that mash temperature control is somewhat inconsistent in that actual mash temperatures varies significantly throughout the mash even though the temperature controller says it is at a specific temperature, ie. 152F. I have a 2 foot long temperature probe sold by Thermoworks where I can measure the temperature at all depths in the mash. The temperature can be 154F at the surface, 147F at the base of the mash-tun, and all temps in between

I don't mean to discredit your experience friend, but I tested this yesterday on my brew and I'm within 1 degree C from ETC and anywhere in the grain bed. It could be that I made a Berliner (1.037) and therefore didn't have a big enough grain bed to cause inconsistencies. I will check again next brew and see. But my initial conjecture may still hold up that you have a channeling issue going on.

I will send along images of how we use the medium system and maybe that might give you some ideas on how to adapt. It took us a long time to learn how to use the equipment the best way.

 

[limulus]

Hello All,
Have any of you found a good way to store the lid to the 3-in-1? I normally keep the mash tun inside the 3-in-1 with the lid on. However, that lid is not as important as the 3-in-1 which does not need to get scratched. As you all know, that lid is bigger and only fits the 3-in-1. I guess I can keep storing it in a large plastic trash bag. But this is a creative group...

 

[Winger22]

I use a carabiner and clip the handle on the lid to one of the handles on the 3-in-1 when I'm not using it.

 

[hgearle]

I don't mean to discredit your experience friend, but I tested this yesterday on my brew and I'm within 1 degree C from ETC and anywhere in the grain bed. It could be that I made a Berliner (1.037) and therefore didn't have a big enough grain bed to cause inconsistencies. I will check again next brew and see. But my initial conjecture may still hold up that you have a channeling issue going on.

I will send along images of how we use the medium system and maybe that might give you some ideas on how to adapt. It took us a long time to learn how to use the equipment the best way.

Hello Xico and thanks for the rely. I know you have WAY more experience brewing with the BIAC and I welcome your input. However, the brews I have been doing almost exclusively are high gravity 11 gallon batches with about 35 pounds of grain and 2-3 pounds rice hulls. I do stir about 4 times at about 13 minute intervals checking the temperatures frequently and the results are consistent. Channeling is not the issue I think, but just the large mass of grain and hulls that cannot hold the temperature that the recirculating wort is asking for ie. 152F. Maybe a smaller gravity brew is easier to control temperature wise so it is not an issue. All the same, the beers come out tasting great so maybe it is a non-issue.

I look forward to the images because I know you have made an incredible amount of beer in your system.

 

[xico]

hgearle, I had a feeling my results were skewed with the light grain load. Though I don't make high gravity beers all too often, most of my grain bills are about the same weight but for a larger volume. I won't brew for another 2 weeks but I will be sure to continue to explore this with you and we will see if we can find a solution. Unfortunately, I was not able to get the images from my lady's phone before I left for a work trip.

Sharing the images of what we have added to the system is high on my to do list upon return. Sunday/Monday I'll have them up.

 

[Solstice-Brewing]

May I ask: Are you using the analog power controller or the digital one? I bought my medium BIAC when the analog controller was standard. Are you able to fine tune the analog controller to 1 or 2% power input to the element? I have thought of using the element for heating during fermentation so that I could use my pump/jacket loop for cooling during the first few days of rapid fermentation. But I am hesitant to spend %500+ to get the digital one.

Thanks!

Sorry for the delayed response, but I see you already may have had this answered. I do have the unit that can be tuned to low percentages and although I haven't verified the accuracy of the power output at these low levels, it does the job for me. I'm able to keep the temps from getting too low with this with no overshoot. I also use this to ramp up my lagers for a dactyl rest (slowly going from 50F to mid-60's over a few days.

 

[Solstice-Brewing]

Does anyone else have issues with the lid gasket sealing? Seems like about every 3rd or 4th batch, I don't get a good seal. I don't think this is a big problem, but with CO2 leaking around the gasket, I don't get that warm fuzzy of a blooping system the next morning - having to sweat it out until the first gravity check.

Anyway, any advice or insights on how to better seal the gasket would be appreciated. I've got the medium system circa 2015.

thanks

 

[JB_Brewing2]

Does anyone else have issues with the lid gasket sealing? Seems like about every 3rd or 4th batch, I don't get a good seal. I don't think this is a big problem, but with CO2 leaking around the gasket, I don't get that warm fuzzy of a blooping system the next morning - having to sweat it out until the first gravity check.

Anyway, any advice or insights on how to better seal the gasket would be appreciated. I've got the medium system circa 2015.

thanks

I had a couple brews that didn't start fermenting like usual. First time it happened I thought it may have been the yeast so I pitched more yeast. Still nothing. Finally popped the lid to have a look. Really nice krausen which confirmed a leak. I applied a small amount of keg lube to the seal in order to get the seal to adhere better to the lid and, secondarily, to provide a better seal. The second time it happened I discovered the clamp for the lid was ever so slightly askew. Redid the clamp and CO2 started flowing into the blow off jar filled with starsan. The lid and seal are the only issues I've had and they seem pretty minor. Although...I did purchase a Brewers Hardware 15 gallon fermenter because it uses tri-clamps on all orifices. Still using the BIAC to ferment; just nice to be able to brew more frequently with an additional fermentation vessel.

 

[cuda6pak]

Does anyone else have issues with the lid gasket sealing? Seems like about every 3rd or 4th batch, I don't get a good seal. I don't think this is a big problem, but with CO2 leaking around the gasket, I don't get that warm fuzzy of a blooping system the next morning - having to sweat it out until the first gravity check.

Anyway, any advice or insights on how to better seal the gasket would be appreciated. I've got the medium system circa 2015.

thanks

I haven't had any issues with sealing in the 2 years of brewing with the BIAC. I do have my clamp set up very tight.

 

[hgearle]

One time I looked at the BIAC in the morning after pitching yeast and nothing was happening which was odd. I was pissed...and embarrassed to find that I left the wort measuring gauge hooked around the top in my haste to close the lid and it wasn't making a good seal. Besides that...no issues.

Originally Posted by ron8 View Post:
Are you using the analog power controller or the digital one? I bought my medium BIAC when the analog controller was standard. Are you able to fine tune the analog controller to 1 or 2% power input to the element? I have thought of using the element for heating during fermentation so that I could use my pump/jacket loop for cooling during the first few days of rapid fermentation. But I am hesitant to spend %500+ to get the digital one.

I bought my BIAC in 2015 with the digital controller and I can control the temperature at any time from mash, boil, whirlpool/hopstand, fermentation, and crash cooling ( to 37F with Nathan's water only chiller) within 1 degree. Truely a great system as far a temperature control is concerned (besides my recent mash temp post...which isn't really a problem).

Mostly, I use the chiller to keep the wort cool at a temperature below 67F. If I feel I need to raise it above that (because my basement is about 67F), I hook up the heating element to the hot side of the controller, set the temperature I want to hold, and set the power control to 3% power. Usually, I disconnect the cold chiller before doing this. The controller will hold any temperature that you set (69, 72, 85F)

 

[Solstice-Brewing]

BIAC sealing:
Thanks for the replies, folks. Glad to hear it's not just me. I'll try the keg lube solution. I've cranked the clamp about as far as it will go, but will check to make sure it's true. I think the issue is that the gasket's round side that engages the lid can rotate, making the flat side a bit uneven.

As mentioned, only a small issue on an otherwise perfect system!! I've got ~30 batches run through this and tuned a lot of my processes based on this thread - might have to bind this in a hard copy volume and have Nathan include this with his kits

 

[cuda6pak]

Has anyone scaled up their home brewery with a second or multiple BIAC's? Curious how you manage temperature control between the units, ie all run off one glycol loop with automatic valves and multiple digital ETC's+power box for heat? Or completely independent setups?

I'd like to increase my pipeline, and a single medium BIAC somewhat tends to hold production capacity down a bit, especially depending on what you're brewing and how long primary will take. Now that I'm starting to enter competitions and giving much more away, it's hard to build up the pipeline and get multiple things on tap (5-tap keezer). However, I don't want to give up the temperature control of the jacketed conical along with the ease (or lack of) cleaning required when you get to boil in your fermentor. It would also be nice to try out a few more recipes quicker.

I'd also like to start a Brett aging program more or less and curious if any other BIAC'ers have done that and how they manage it with the BIAC as their primary system.

 

[JB_Brewing2]

Has anyone scaled up their home brewery with a second or multiple BIAC's? Curious how you manage temperature control between the units, ie all run off one glycol loop with automatic valves and multiple digital ETC's+power box for heat? Or completely independent setups?

I'd like to increase my pipeline, and a single medium BIAC somewhat tends to hold production capacity down a bit, especially depending on what you're brewing and how long primary will take. Now that I'm starting to enter competitions and giving much more away, it's hard to build up the pipeline and get multiple things on tap (5-tap keezer). However, I don't want to give up the temperature control of the jacketed conical along with the ease (or lack of) cleaning required when you get to boil in your fermentor. It would also be nice to try out a few more recipes quicker.

I'd also like to start a Brett aging program more or less and curious if any other BIAC'ers have done that and how they manage it with the BIAC as their primary system.

I increased my pipeline through the purchase of a Brewers Hardware 15 gallon non-jacketed fermenter. It's used for transferring post-pitched wort from the BIAC and is stored in a heated and cooled ferm chamber made of plywood and foam insulation. Ferm temp control is through an ITC 1000. Doubled my pipeline output.

 

[cuda6pak]

What made you choose a non-jacketed conical and build a completely separate ferm chamber? Rather than adding a second medium BIAC?

 

[limulus]

I increased my pipeline through the purchase of a Brewers Hardware 15 gallon non-jacketed fermenter. It's used for transferring post-pitched wort from the BIAC and is stored in a heated and cooled ferm chamber made of plywood and foam insulation. Ferm temp control is through an ITC 1000. Doubled my pipeline output.

I have something similar except I have three SS Brewtech Brew Buckets and a Speidel fermenter. I had those and the cooled/heated fermentation cabinet before the BIAC.

 

[JB_Brewing2]

What made you choose a non-jacketed conical and build a completely separate ferm chamber? Rather than adding a second medium BIAC?

I only "need" to brew every couple weeks, has lower installed and operating cost, and the ITC 1000 can be set to vary by only one degree from the set temp thereby holding a more consistent temp than the Auberin ETC that came with my BIAC.

 

[cuda6pak]

Looking around at prices it looks like the SS Brewtech Chronicle is the way to go. Upgrade with butterfly valves and casters and it's $600 for a 14gal stainless conical. I'd really like another BIAC but by the time you spec it out with heating element and temp controller it's $2100+shipping. Hard to justify when I could get 2-14gal fermentors spec'd out reasonably for almost half the price of one medium. Granted, these aren't jacketed and I can't brew IN them. But for some long term aged Brett's I think it's a good option. Planning on turning a 5x8 room in the basement into a temp-controlled bottle storage area at 55* so I think these would do fine rolled into there for a few months of secondary with Brett. Could always do a cheap copper tube wrapped around the body for a glycol setup in the future as well.

 

[ron8]

Hi all,

I am brewing a Belgian Golden Ale 7.3% copied from Pappers who invented "Cherub Nectar", recipe available here. Just wanted to share what my system looks like during fermentation.

I have a cold or warm water bath, coleman cooler, which circulates via chugger pump into jacket and back to cooler. I am not too interested in buying a custom jacket or a glycol cooler, although they would be awesome to have. So, I use foam rubber and bubble wrap to insulate. They work very well. I'm currently in day 10 of fermentation. This is batch #14 since April 2015. I never brewed before I got this. I am a latecomer to brewing, closer to retirement than college. And so I decided not to wait to get a stainless steel set-up. Lots of fun messing with this. Hope you like the photo.

Ron8

 

[JB_Brewing2]

Looks like a nice economical set up Ron! I think we've been brewing on the BIAC about the same length of time and I too am nearing retirement. Brew on!

 

[ron8]

Thanks JB! I am giving more thought to adding Nathan's (BREWHA man) electronic power supply unit, but $500 + keeps me just thinking. I would like to have control of heating and cooling automatically. Right now I have to be present and change out from cold to warm water in the cooler. I have a couple aquarium heaters that sit on the cooler floor which I plug in when it is clear I need to add heat instead of hold down the fermentation temp via cooling.

It requires a lot of attention the first couple of weeks of fermentation. I have been brewing only Belgian beers: golden ale, saison and dubbel. And so if I added the dual temp controller from BREWHA and the electronic power controller I could use the heating element to add heat during fermentation. Nathan has advised to run the element at 2% heat input in order to avoid scorching the yeast.

I am on a photo on Nathan's website, pouring grain in the colander. And was "featured" on Nathan's website for having a problem with scorching during mash/boil. I pointed out to Nathan the issue, and another person sent a photo of his scorched element.

It's fun brewing with the BIAC. Although I have nothing to compare it to. Never used buckets, etc.

- Ron8

 

[JB_Brewing2]

Thanks JB! I am giving more thought to adding Nathan's (BREWHA man) electronic power supply unit, but $500 + keeps me just thinking. I would like to have control of heating and cooling automatically. Right now I have to be present and change out from cold to warm water in the cooler. I have a couple aquarium heaters that sit on the cooler floor which I plug in when it is clear I need to add heat instead of hold down the fermentation temp via cooling.

It requires a lot of attention the first couple of weeks of fermentation. I have been brewing only Belgian beers: golden ale, saison and dubbel. And so if I added the dual temp controller from BREWHA and the electronic power controller I could use the heating element to add heat during fermentation. Nathan has advised to run the element at 2% heat input in order to avoid scorching the yeast.

I am on a photo on Nathan's website, pouring grain in the colander. And was "featured" on Nathan's website for having a problem with scorching during mash/boil. I pointed out to Nathan the issue, and another person sent a photo of his scorched element.

It's fun brewing with the BIAC. Although I have nothing to compare it to. Never used buckets, etc.

- Ron8

I did the bucket thing...20 years ago, then went to three vessels before dropping out of brewing for over a decade. The BIAC enticed me to return to brewing and haven't regretted it.

I have the ETC from Nathan and am considering an upgrade to a PID controlled system. I get too much variation (plus/minus 3F) in temperature (hysteresis) with the ETC. I do use the heating element through the power controller and have had no scorching at 3%. Seem to recall some gentlemen on this thread using a better temperature control system. Maybe one of them will chime in to advise. Were I to do it all over again, I wouldn't buy the ETC and seek another alternative to the power controller.

-jb

 

[jubalon]

I did the bucket thing...20 years ago, then went to three vessels before dropping out of brewing for over a decade. The BIAC enticed me to return to brewing and haven't regretted it.

I have the ETC from Nathan and am considering an upgrade to a PID controlled system. I get too much variation (plus/minus 3F) in temperature (hysteresis) with the ETC. I do use the heating element through the power controller and have had no scorching at 3%. Seem to recall some gentlemen on this thread using a better temperature control system. Maybe one of them will chime in to advise. Were I to do it all over again, I wouldn't buy the ETC and seek another alternative to the power controller.

-jb

I built my own control panel which features a BCS-460 for temp control. It handles pretty much everything I need... mash, boil, chill, fermentation... even did a kettle sour via PID control that turned out awesome. Here's the link to the post with some details on how I've got it set up: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=7900245&postcount=991

I bet if I ever wanted to, I could add up to three more BIACs or fermenters to the system and use the same controller. Could only power one heating element at a time, though.

cheers