3-in-1 "Boil Kettle, Jacketed Chiller, Conical Fermenter" by Brewha

[MeetsCriteria]

Yes, I do understand the purpose of the conical design for this, but it is limiting.

What if you want to age a brew for several weeks? Your entire brew set up would be occupied, which would not allow you to brew any other batches, unless you had a secondary fermentor to transfer you beer to and let it age.

I was hoping to brew at least 2-3 times a month on this thing, so a secondary fermentor would definitely be necessary.

I just wanted to see if anyone had any issues with this since purchasing and using the BIAC.

I realize after reading the above you know most of what I said. The short of it is, I think you'll need to push out with CO2. Otherwise, no problems. You would just dump trub after chilling prior to transfer. I don't see this as a rate limiting step in the least.

 

[Bierhere]

Right on, I appreciate all the feedback. Seems like a great product, glad you are having a great time with it!

I was looking at either the BIAC 3 in 1 or the BrewEasy system from Blichmann. I recently read a series of forums about a safety valve plug issue on the Blichmann BrewEasy that is kind of steering me away from it...which led me to the BIAC.

I'll keep researching and look forward to more posts from happy customers of the BIAC!

 

[Jimmy82]

Picked up the glycol chiller today - it fit perfectly in my girlfriends Fiat 500

 

[bhchrist]

Thanks for sharing your experiences with this equipment. I have been following Jimmy's account both here and the site up north. I had been looking at a combined Stout Tanks/Electric Brewery set-up, but this looks so much more attractive for many reasons already discussed (footprint, $$, etc).

I have a few questions for those of you that have been able to brew in the Brewha Conical.

Do you have a feel as to the amount of dead space in the conical below the drop in mash colander? The site lists a 16 gallon/45# grain capacity. Does that leave roughly 2-4 gallons below and around the colander, accounting for the grain? Are you just targeting full pre-boil volumes and not worrying about Water/grist ratios? I know they say you can sparge, but that will have to be via a separate HLT and likely a pump, it seems.

Any feel for the volume that the jacket holds?

How has cleaning been? Does it look like a spray head will be necessary or does a good soak/recirculation of PBW do the trick, along with some elbow grease?

 

[Jimmy82]

Thanks for sharing your experiences with this equipment. I have been following Jimmy's account both here and the site up north. I had been looking at a combined Stout Tanks/Electric Brewery set-up, but this looks so much more attractive for many reasons already discussed (footprint, $$, etc).

I have a few questions for those of you that have been able to brew in the Brewha Conical.

Do you have a feel as to the amount of dead space in the conical below the drop in mash colander? The site lists a 16 gallon/45# grain capacity. Does that leave roughly 2-4 gallons below and around the colander, accounting for the grain? Are you just targeting full pre-boil volumes and not worrying about Water/grist ratios? I know they say you can sparge, but that will have to be via a separate HLT and likely a pump, it seems.

Any feel for the volume that the jacket holds?

How has cleaning been? Does it look like a spray head will be necessary or does a good soak/recirculation of PBW do the trick, along with some elbow grease?

Glad to see you found our website

I believe there's more than 20 liters of water below the colander - I measured previously and it was 20 liters or more just in the cone. I just brew as if I was doing a full volume BIAB - all of my water and grain gets mashed, and I recirculate to keep the temp even.

The conical itself has approx. 90 liters capacity.

The jacket on mine holds approx. 20 liters.

 

[Fuzzy-felt]

Hello everyone.

I'm almost on the point of placing an order for the BIAC set-up, but there's an issue regarding temperature control that I need to resolve first of all.

Where I brew the ambient temperature might be above or below the required fermentation temperature during different parts of the day. At the moment I use a freezer with a heater in it so I can heat or cool (via an STC 1000 controller) as required. The BIAC fermentor won't fit in my freezer (or my fridge) as I'm told that I need a 50cm minimum width/depth. I could either look out for a bigger fridge that could house the conical, or employ a method of heating or cooling using the jacket (which is partly what it was designed for anyway).

Does anybody have a set-up, or is planning on having one, that enables you to heat or cool at any given time? If so, how exactly is this done? From what I have read in this thread it seems that a closed-loop system utilising a water holding receptacle housing a heater and a cooler could be the way to go. How this is done is another matter, though. The requirements of an ETC and how many bits of associated equipment it is able to control (would need to be heating, cooling, pumping, opening and closing valves perhaps) is beyond my knowledge at the moment.

I'm conversing with Nathan at Brewha about this as well. He said a short while ago:

"if you are fermenting in a room that fluctuates, I can supply you a dual stage controller which has two female cords instead of one. It's temp probe sends power through one cord if the temp is below target (opening a valve or turning on a pump letting warm water into jacket), and the other cord if temp is above target (opening a valve or turning on a pump letting cool water into jacket). "

The bit missing above is the actual warming or cooling of the water itself and how this is part of the control procedure. I'll get back to him on this.

Anyway, if anyone has any suggestions on this I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,

Mark.

 

[Jimmy82]

Hello everyone.

I'm almost on the point of placing an order for the BIAC set-up, but there's an issue regarding temperature control that I need to resolve first of all.

Where I brew the ambient temperature might be above or below the required fermentation temperature during different parts of the day. At the moment I use a freezer with a heater in it so I can heat or cool (via an STC 1000 controller) as required. The BIAC fermentor won't fit in my freezer (or my fridge) as I'm told that I need a 50cm minimum width/depth. I could either look out for a bigger fridge that could house the conical, or employ a method of heating or cooling using the jacket (which is partly what it was designed for anyway).

Does anybody have a set-up, or is planning on having one, that enables you to heat or cool at any given time? If so, how exactly is this done? From what I have read in this thread it seems that a closed-loop system utilising a water holding receptacle housing a heater and a cooler could be the way to go. How this is done is another matter, though. The requirements of an ETC and how many bits of associated equipment it is able to control (would need to be heating, cooling, pumping, opening and closing valves perhaps) is beyond my knowledge at the moment.

I'm conversing with Nathan at Brewha about this as well. He said a short while ago:

"if you are fermenting in a room that fluctuates, I can supply you a dual stage controller which has two female cords instead of one. It's temp probe sends power through one cord if the temp is below target (opening a valve or turning on a pump letting warm water into jacket), and the other cord if temp is above target (opening a valve or turning on a pump letting cool water into jacket). "

The bit missing above is the actual warming or cooling of the water itself and how this is part of the control procedure. I'll get back to him on this.

Anyway, if anyone has any suggestions on this I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,

Mark.

I think what Nathan is referring to would have you using your hot and cold water from your taps, as that's what he advertises as a method for chilling.

I've been working on setting up a glycol chiller (though I'm using only water) to chill during fermentation, along with lagering and cold crashing. I actually just finished getting everything setup today. In the winter, I'm expecting temps to be below what I'd like to ferment an ale at, so I plan on employing a fermwrap to bring temperatures up. You would be able to run both the chiller and the fermwrap on the STC the same way you do now.

I have more detail about my setup at the following link:

http://brewnosers.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6062

 

[Fuzzy-felt]

I think what Nathan is referring to would have you using your hot and cold water from your taps, as that's what he advertises as a method for chilling.

I've been working on setting up a glycol chiller (though I'm using only water) to chill during fermentation, along with lagering and cold crashing. I actually just finished getting everything setup today. In the winter, I'm expecting temps to be below what I'd like to ferment an ale at, so I plan on employing a fermwrap to bring temperatures up. You would be able to run both the chiller and the fermwrap on the STC the same way you do now.

I have more detail about my setup at the following link:

http://brewnosers.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6062

Thanks for the reply. I can't see me using hot and cold water from the tap to provide heating and cooling. I'm not even sure how this would be done seeing as there is only one inlet to the conical jacket - perhaps an in-line heater to the cold water supply.

Anyway, I like your idea of the Fermwrap. I'm not so sure how efficiently it will transfer heat through the jacket, though (which will more than likely have water in it for the potential cooling required). I also wonder how many of these jackets will be needed - 2 perhaps?

I've had a look your set-set via the link you gave - interesting stuff, thanks.

 

[gatsby174]

As my other hobby is keeping areef tank, I think I have the perfect solution for fluctuating temps. Some tank chillers also have heaters built in. So, you set the temp you want on the chiller/heater unit, and it automatically keeps it there. All you would need would be a pump to keep the glycol pumping through the jacket.

 

[MeetsCriteria]

I think a reef chiller is a perfect solution. I've been keeping my eye out for a cheap used one. My issue has been keeping it warm enough so using a bucket heater in a cooler with a temp controller and pump has been the perfect solution for me to keep it warm. I'm certain with a reef chiller, if big enough, you could maintain lager temps no problem. One of the main things that attracted me to the 3-in-1 was the idea that I could "get out of the fridge" and not have to deal with a fermentation chamber. It's been a great space saver for sure.

 

[Jimmy82]

A reef chiller would likely work for controlling ferm temps, my concern with going that route was for lagering temps, though it could very well work.

I'm in the process of doing my first batch with the glycol chiller. The pump on my chiller runs non-stop (mixes and pumps), so I decided to run it through the jacket non stop but at fermentation temperature.

I wired up an STC1000 to sense the chiller bath temp, and it kicks the compressor on/off as required - leaving the pump running the whole time. By going this route, I can get away without using glycol as the chiller can be set at a higher temp. I ran the chiller down to lager temps the other day as a test and had no issues with it freezing up.

The beer I'm fermenting right now hasn't budged from the 68* it's set at, and the chiller compressor barely kicks in.

I also geared up a pulley system to lift the colander out - works flawlessly!

 

[ezerhoden14]

Hi guys, its taken me awhile to make it here to post, however i purchased a BIAC two days after the system was released, ive brewed 8 batches through it, and alot of the BREWBlog mishaps.... yea those are mine! I believe Meetscriteria was the reciepient of an extra mash colander that was sent my way. However, ive found alot of the same issues already touched upon (valve on the inlet of jacket) and pressure building up with closed valves (municipal water pressure can buckle you kettle, so dont put any valves on your outlet) All in all brewing has been shorten significantly, clean up is a breeze, and ive seen consistent efficiencies of 85%. I've also added a fullport butterfly valve to the conical and it works much better than the ball valvles, ive talked to nathan and suggested he ship every unit with one. Jimmy82 im so jealous of your pulley system! i dont have the ceiling height to manage that so i need a helper or the wife for batches with more than 20# of grain.. Some numbers for you guys with the 1st gen models (the newer ones i cant vouch for) I got these from nathan at Brewha and ill be able to verify these after sunday "I believe your Mash Colander had a lower volume (from the lip down) of 45L/47quarts. At 1:1.25 (quarts:lbs of grain) you should be able to mash up to 37lbs of grain." I hope thats useful to some of you.

To anyone still on the fence about purchasing a 3-in-1 or a BIAC, the equipment is extremely well designed, its affordable compared to some systems, ive found that tying up my system for fermentation has been a non issue, and if you require to free it up you can still transfer to a bucket,carboy, or other vessel. it could quite possibly be your last brewing setup.

Feel free to PM me with any questions, ill do my best to help.

PS. Crunched for time and need some beer in the pipeline, you can do some large volume extract batches PRETTY fast in the 3-in-1

Forgot to mention that i didnt use the Brewha Power Control Box and i went with the High Gravity Brewing SV http://www.highgravitybrew.com/store/pc/EBC-SV-with-Infinite-Power-Control-386p3986.htm i liked the PID setup over the Ranco ETC and its been great. the Ranco is only used for Fermentation temp control for me.

 

[MeetsCriteria]

I haven't been able to use the mash colander yet...but soon! Thanks again for getting it packed up, etc! I'll post once I use it.

I did finally get a chance to brew again this past weekend and was reminded (yet again) how sweet it is to brew with this set up. I added a valve to the water jacket inlet this time, and that made things much nicer too. Basement temp is now at 62F (that's Wisconsin for you) so I'm back to my bucket heater / recirc through the water jacket method of keeping things warm. Works great!

I wonder what folks have been doing for measuring boil off rate, etc?

I have a stainless steel ruler I suspend in the boil (which I've calibrated) so I know where I'm at with regard to volume, etc. Maybe if you always made the same size batch it wouldn't be an issue...but I often make off-size batches (8.5 gallons for instance for this batch). This method works pretty well I must say.

 

[Redstag]

Pulled the trigger a few days ago. Quoting Bluto from the Animal House movie....Oh Boy This Is Going To Be Great.

 

[MeetsCriteria]

Pulled the trigger a few days ago. Quoting Bluto from the Animal House movie....Oh Boy This Is Going To Be Great.

Congrats! You won't regret it!!!

 

[jeffmeh]

Pulled the trigger a few days ago. Quoting Bluto from the Animal House movie....Oh Boy This Is Going To Be Great.

Flounder, I believe, but I agree with the sentiment.

 

[jeffmeh]

Duplicate....

 

[Fuzzy-felt]

Yaay! I've just placed an order for for a BIAC and a few extras (a couple more hop baskets and a fermenter to keg hose).

Mine's being made with a modified power unit for use in the UK, plus all the electrical components (ETC, pump, solenoid) will be 230v versions as well. The ETC will be a dual stage one, which will do one thing if the temperature is too high, or another thing if it is too low. I just need to sort out how I'm going to deal with maintaining temperature during fermentation.

Really looking forward to picking this up from the docks in London (not looking forward to the 23%-ish taxes and charges, though).

 

[cuda6pak]

This looks like a great setup, perhaps my eventual leap into electric. Only worries like most of us is that it would be in a wildly swinging temperature area, more than likely my garage which can be 45 in the winter and 85 in the summer, but it looks like there are a few good ideas listed through here, ie glycol chiller/reef chiller though that adds onto the price of it quite a bit. Since fermentation temperate is one of the most critical aspects of brewing I take it pretty seriously. Gonna have to start saving pennies...

 

[MeetsCriteria]

I couldn't agree more. Temp control is paramount.

While the foot print is larger than a traditional conical, when I took into account the true foot print for my old temp control system (old fridge) the footprint was significantly reduced. Also the aggravation of transferring the conical to the fridge was taken away. I hated that. Even when I pumped the wort to the conical in the fridge it was a major pain.

When I lived in CA I calc'd the cost of power usage for that fridge...now granted it was old, and electricity was > 2x more expensive there, and that old thing probably used more power than it should have, but it came out to an estimated cost of nearly 500$ per year! To use that thing full time, particularly if trying to do a lager.

While I'm sure a newer fridge won't have that type of power usage (glad I checked), one can appreciate how cost / space savings are achieved fairly rapidly. I've found temp control to be much easier with the water jacket (acts as an insulator). Of course, warm ambient summer temps is one of the things that led me to saison as a favorite style!

My 3-in-1 is holding steady at 67F in the basement (60F) with the bucket heater / chugger pump set up. It cuts on every so often and recircs warm water heated by the bucket heater. No reason this method wouldn't work to chill (ice water recirc'd) or to maintain cooler temps, though you'd have to add ice every so often (i'd exchange frozen water jugs in a water bath, but haven't tried that).

 

[cuda6pak]

Do you have a picture of your bucket heater/chugger setup? It sounds like a Reef Chiller with built in heater would be ideal for a one-piece solution, but I'm having trouble finding one.

 

[MeetsCriteria]

I think there is a pic of it on post #28. But I can post more detailed pictures later, perhaps.

 

[cuda6pak]

Ahhh, oops forgot about that picture. Do you have the heater mounted on there to avoid scorching the cooler? Or is it fine just dropped in the bucket? Do you run the pump continuously or only when the need to recirculate/heat? Any idea how often it turns on?

Man I'm just itching to purchase this system!

 

[MeetsCriteria]

It just sits in the cooler. There is a shield around it that prevents the element contacting the sides, so no scorching etc. This is what it looks like:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BDB4UG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I used that heater for a while to pre-heat my mash water which always worked great. It occurred to me I could use it as a cheap way to make a heater...and it works great.

The temp controller cuts the heat and pump on at the same time. Right now it comes on rarely (every few hours if that). In the height of winter it may be 50F in the basement so probably more often then.

It has occurred to me that you could get a drop in temp before an increase but I think the cooler maintains temp ok, probably better than the water jacket so this is probably not a problem. I have the throttle valve on the pump 1/4-1/2 closed in an effort to balance the system.

I've also considered using ice in the cooler as a cheap way to lager. Could probably have 2 x 1 gallon jugs, frozen and drop a new one in the cooler every morning while the other re-freezes. I'm sure this would work, but haven't implemented. Not quite as automated as a reef-chiller...but cheap, particularly if you make a lager only so often...

Just some thoughts.

 

[cuda6pak]

Do you have a link to the upgraded stainless element base you swapped out from what came with the Brewha setup? Did you mainly get the racking arm to get a little extra wort out of the fermenter when racking to kegs? Any other advantage?

Are you still doing full volume mashes or have you tried sparging at all with the setup? Still hitting around 85%?





edit: Maybe I mis-read, the Brewha heating element said it was 100% stainless. Were the pics from using your previous heating element on your RIMS setup?

 

[MeetsCriteria]

I will start by saying I love the racking arm. Having had one on my last conical (one of the main reasons to have a conical IMO) I like being able to rotate the racking arm off the yeast cake. It minimizes sediment pick-up. If I get more beer by being able to siphon from lower than the racking port, that is a bonus! That racking arm is solid and works like it was designed for the 3-in-1. Can't recommend enough.

I don't really have a TRUE BIAC. I have the original 3-in-1 which was the 16 gal version. I subsequently got a colander which I haven't used yet...but I will! Jimmy82 is experienced with the real deal...

Currently I heat the water in the 3-in-1 (240v) and then pump to my old HERMS (120v) and mash per norm. Then I just run-off into the 3-in-1 and go from there. My efficiency has been lousy but I blame the brew show grain mill settings for that...time to get a grain mill and stop messing around!

The heating system for the water jacket is sort of a RIMS. Really can't beat it as an option. So easy...

 

[augiedoggy]

Do you have a picture of your bucket heater/chugger setup? It sounds like a Reef Chiller with built in heater would be ideal for a one-piece solution, but I'm having trouble finding one.

funny I ended up with a beverage chiller when looking for a cheap reef chiller for my reef tank...

Turns out we use modified beverage chillers on the plate processors for our newspaper plate processors... and I scored a faulty one we had to replace which was an easy fix. downside is it runs on 220v and I have none near my reeftank.... but I do in the brewroom been researching how to utilize this for conical cooling.
This is an informative thread for sure.

 

[dudasaj]

The current models for sale include stainless base heating elements.
http://brewha.co/products/ulwd-electric-element


I still plan to keep my existing large mash tun for high gravity 10 gallon batches 40-55# of grain for a 10 gallon batch.

 

[dudasaj]

Hello everyone.

I'm almost on the point of placing an order for the BIAC set-up, but there's an issue regarding temperature control that I need to resolve first of all.

Where I brew the ambient temperature might be above or below the required fermentation temperature during different parts of the day. At the moment I use a freezer with a heater in it so I can heat or cool (via an STC 1000 controller) as required. The BIAC fermentor won't fit in my freezer (or my fridge) as I'm told that I need a 50cm minimum width/depth. I could either look out for a bigger fridge that could house the conical, or employ a method of heating or cooling using the jacket (which is partly what it was designed for anyway).

Does anybody have a set-up, or is planning on having one, that enables you to heat or cool at any given time? If so, how exactly is this done? From what I have read in this thread it seems that a closed-loop system utilising a water holding receptacle housing a heater and a cooler could be the way to go. How this is done is another matter, though. The requirements of an ETC and how many bits of associated equipment it is able to control (would need to be heating, cooling, pumping, opening and closing valves perhaps) is beyond my knowledge at the moment.

I'm conversing with Nathan at Brewha about this as well. He said a short while ago:

"if you are fermenting in a room that fluctuates, I can supply you a dual stage controller which has two female cords instead of one. It's temp probe sends power through one cord if the temp is below target (opening a valve or turning on a pump letting warm water into jacket), and the other cord if temp is above target (opening a valve or turning on a pump letting cool water into jacket). "

The bit missing above is the actual warming or cooling of the water itself and how this is part of the control procedure. I'll get back to him on this.

Anyway, if anyone has any suggestions on this I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,

Mark.

As you described, I would go with a water/glycol reservoir that constantly circulates through the jacket. The reservoir could have a 2 stage controller running a reef chiller and a submersible heater.

 

[Jimmy82]

Do you have a link to the upgraded stainless element base you swapped out from what came with the Brewha setup? Did you mainly get the racking arm to get a little extra wort out of the fermenter when racking to kegs? Any other advantage?

Are you still doing full volume mashes or have you tried sparging at all with the setup? Still hitting around 85%?





edit: Maybe I mis-read, the Brewha heating element said it was 100% stainless. Were the pics from using your previous heating element on your RIMS setup?

I'm still doing full volume mashes, and usually hit around 80%. I'm not sure how the sparge would work, unless you're doing it because of volume constraints with the BIAC. The reason I say this is that there's a significant volume of space below the colander (I'm guessing a bit over 20 liters), so realistically, this dead space isn't available to the mash for your liqour/grist ratio calculations...you need enough water to fill the dead space, PLUS, enough of the colander submerged to conduct the mash. The only time I could see myself adding a sparge is if I'm doing a really high gravity brew that I can't fit all of the grain and water in at once.