3 FLoyds Zombie Dust attempt. Help/info requested

[InityBrew]

Skeezer,

your clone of the original zombie dust is awesome.

For credibility - I am the Brewer in my third story apartment in kimberton, Pa.

 

[kylevester]

Considering the number of posts here, I didn't read all the way through. But since it's a Zombie Dust clone, I must relay this story...

A guy in my homebrew club (Tippecanoe Homebrewers Circle, yes, THC) brewed up a ZD clone. As the original poster did, used only Citra hops. The result was damned tasty and very close to 3F's brew. He submitted to the Indiana State Fair's brewing competition and one of the judges, who was national or higher ranked, said his hop bill was off and should try Citra to help balance.

This, coupled with the comments I've received and the judging experiences I've had, is why I don't enter competitions anymore. Most judges have no idea what they're talking about, from my experience. I've received similar responses as my HBC member did, in that the judge falsely identified the hops/malt/overall character, etc.

Anyways, I shall try this recipe out once I get enough Citra hops.

 

[TheBreweryUnderground]

I had a guy tell me he got black currant from my ZD clone and a judge who said he noticed off ferm temps when I know my beer was in the low to mid 60s with US-05 and sat in the fridge all the way until the competition. I might consider comps in the future but I don't really want to pay to have other people drink my beer. The best thing I have found to help your brewing is brewing with other people and getting criticism or suggestions on your brewing process.

 

[jammin]

said his hop bill was off and should try Citra to help balance.

some people simply don't care much at all for citra hops. i wouldn't be surprised if that judge was basically saying... i get it, you like citra but try for some complexity.

I had a guy tell me he got black currant from my ZD clone and a judge who said he noticed off ferm temps when I know my beer was in the low to mid 60s with US-05 and sat in the fridge all the way until the competition.

i have heard people mention off "peach" flavors by fermenting low with US-05.

 

[RC0032]

I have brewed this and I ran into someone at a party Saturday that had some of his attempt with him. Both of these independent attempts came to the same conclusion. Close but not bitter enough.

Anyone else getting this? Great beer but lacking in bitterness compared to the original?

 

[MW66]

I'll let you know in about a week and 1/2. I have mine in the keg for about 4 days now and I have 1 bottle of ZD in the fridge. I plan to do a side by side. My OG was at 1.068 and my FG was 1.020. I used US-04 and mashed on the higher side as was suggested at 154F. So far, it smelled amazing after the DH and the sample I tasted when I transferred it to the keg was very good. It seemed pretty bitter to me.

 

[mcotter]

It will be a few weeks before mine will be ready but when I tasted it before dry hopping and it definitely didn't seem to be short on bitterness.

This could be due to me using citra with a higher AA and because I went ahead and used a full oz rather than .75 for the FWH.

 

[caioz1jp]

So I am about to brew this AG recipe the 23rd of September for a group brew party. I normaly let my beers sit 2 weeks primary then 4 weeks secondary. This will be my first APA/IPA and was wondering if those times are too long. Ive heard that IPAs shouldnt sit to long because you will lose the hop notes. If my times are good when should i add the dry hops?

 

[mthhurley]

Recipe calls for 10 days of dry hopping.

I think 2 weeks is a bit much, I'm typically 7-10 days in primary. This was a very fast attenuating beer for me. I think it was done in three days. So other than a couple extra days diacetyl rest, your wasting time (again, assuming the beer hit FG).

After that, I kegged it and added the dry hops 10 days later I removed the dry hops, added some finings, let it sit a couple days in the fridge and then carb'd. There was a fair amount of hop debris so that extra rest time was needed.

 

[caioz1jp]

For me I like my beer to age. I keg so at most im waiting 2 days to drink my beer. The 2 weeks in primary is usually because I'm lazy but also I like my beer as "clean" as i can get it. Since I don't bottle I tack the extra two weeks on the secondary for extra conditioning, clearing, and general aging. If I keep my schedule should I just dry hop for 10 days at the begining or end of the 4 week secondary?

 

[skeezerpleezer]

For me I like my beer to age. I keg so at most im waiting 2 days to drink my beer. The 2 weeks in primary is usually because I'm lazy but also I like my beer as "clean" as i can get it. Since I don't keg i tack the extra two weeks on the secondary for extra conditioning, clearing, and general aging. If I keep my schedule should I just dry hope for 10 days at the begining or end of the 4 week secondary?

I would do it at the end if kegging.

 

[caioz1jp]

I would do it at the end if kegging.

Will ageing it affect the quality and taste of it in a negative way? Im debateing with a buddy about it and he feels you shouldnt age IPA/APAs

 

[Zeppman]

Depends on how long you age it. In my opinion, you shouldn't age anything where hop flavor is supposed to be the dominant flavor. Hop flavor mellows with time. The beer won't go bad, but it won't maintain the fresh, citra flavor.


I'm going to be brewing this up again soon. My first two versions tasted great, but I also noticed, as was mentioned a few pages back, that the recipe isn't bitter enough. I'm thinking of using something besides Citra for the FWH. Any suggestions?

 

[skeezerpleezer]

I wouldnt "age" an IPA, but if you are planning to secondary for a month, the best way to maximize the good hop flavor/aroma is to dry hop at the end of that time and not the beginning. I actually like to keg hop also (and have a home-ade randall that works pretty nicely also).

To up the bitterness, you could just add a bit of something like warrior or magnum at the beginning to up the ibus.

 

[Zeppman]

Thanks skeezer.

I'm going to brew up a 10gal batch tomorrow and don't have the time/equipment to make starter with liquid yeast for this batch before tomorrow, so I"m going with dry yeast.

If I can't confidently keep S-04 under 65F... should I just go with S-05? My ferm temps in the basement are in the upper 60s but it is difficult for me in my current setup to be able to keep things in the lower 60s during August.

 

[dhardeman]

Skeezer,

I wanted to thank you for all your hard work on this clone/thread. I brewed up your recipe a couple months ago and its already almost gone. I had a friend bring a bottle of the real Zombie Dust(approx 2-3 months old) to our club meeting yesterday so we could see how close it was. Mine was a bit darker but i was surprised how close they were in color and taste. We had several people try the comparison side by side and believe it or not most liked mine better. It did seem to have a bit more hop character than the real thing. ZD was a bit more balanced but overall I didnt think either one was "the best". FFF can F off anyways since they dont want to share/distribute ZD in our market I will just brew this up to get my fix :rockin:...................BTW, since I am slightly obsessed with Citra lately I brewed up the Double Citra IPA clone from the Brewing Network podcast a couple weeks ago. I hope it turns out as good as this one did. Smelling it so far I think its going to be a winner.

 

[scottland]

I'm thinking about brewing this soon, but I decided to take my typical approach to cloning anything: What would 3Floyds do?
They brew on a 35bbl system, so I tossed together what the recipe probably looks like at their volume:

2000lbs 2-row
200lb Munich (4 sacks)
100lb Medium English Crystal (50-60L) (2 sacks)
100lb Melanoidin (2 sacks)
11lb Magnum @ 90
22lb Citra @ 15
22lb Citra @ knockout (whirlpooled)
35lbs Citra Dry Hopped (1lb/bbl)

That would be my best guess at their recipe written at 35bbl. All the malts are clean easy numbers, that break down evenly into sack quantities. The hops are broken up in 11 and 44lb increments, and the dry hops are in lbs/bbl. When I scaled it down to 6 gallons, what I got was remarkably close to what skeezerpleezer has.

11lbs 2-row
1.1lb Munich
8.8oz 50-60L English Crystal
8.8oz Melanoidin

1oz Magnum @ 90
2oz Citra @ 15
2oz Citra @ flameout
3oz Citra Dry Hopped

Why the Magnum you ask? I'm pretty sure that Zombie dust is no longer a Citra-only beer. Considering it's a production beer, and no longer a brew-pub exclusive, it just makes sense. I'm sure they have Citra under contract, but using a clean bittering hop is more efficent. I also find Citra to be catty when it's used for bittering, and I've never heard ZD described as catty. This all leads me to believe they bitter it with something other than Citra.

Obviously Citra is used everywhere else. Pro brewers are lazy, so I simplified the hop additions. If you had to haul a 22lb bucket of hops up a ladder over a hot kettle, you probably would simplify the hop additions as well.

I've found that a lot of professional brewers use English caramel in their recipes. I could be wrong, and it very well could Briess C60. Who knows?

So ya, I'm going to brew that. I'll use WLP002 (1968) to ferment with. Hopefully it turns out pretty tasty.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

Thanks skeezer.

I'm going to brew up a 10gal batch tomorrow and don't have the time/equipment to make starter with liquid yeast for this batch before tomorrow, so I"m going with dry yeast.

If I can't confidently keep S-04 under 65F... should I just go with S-05? My ferm temps in the basement are in the upper 60s but it is difficult for me in my current setup to be able to keep things in the lower 60s during August.

Lower would be better, but I fermented a double batch at a friends house that doesn't have temp control, so it was probably 68-70 and it came out fine. That was with S-04. Either would probably be fine, just try to keep it as cool as possible.

 

[eanmcnulty]

Here is what I bottled tonight:

Zombie Dust Clone – Brewed with 50% Citra/50% Amarillo
Batch Size 3 gal
Estimated OG: 1.066 SG
Estimated Color: 8.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 65.0 IBUs

6.76 lb Pale 2 Row, US 81.7%
0.64 lb Munich 10L 7.7%
0.29 lb Carafoam 3.5%
0.29 lb Caramel 60L 3.5%
0.29 lb Melanoiden Malt 3.5%
0.25 oz Citra [11.40 %] - First Wort 20.0 min
0.25 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 15.0 minIBUs
0.50 oz Citra [11.40 %] - Boil 15.0 min
0.33 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min
0.33 oz Citra [11.40 %] - Boil 10.0 min
0.33 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min
0.33 oz Citra [11.40 %] - Boil 5.0 min
0.33 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 1.0 min
0.33 oz Citra [11.40 %] - Boil 1.0 min
1.0 pkg London ESB Ale Wyeast Labs #1968
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Day
0.50 oz Citra [11.40 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days
Mash 154F

I drank the pint that didn't go into a bottle. Even flat this is awesome. Almost like a cask version. Amarillo/Citra rocks.

 

[kaj102wiu]

Thanks Skeezer.. Is this the latest recipe for this post? i am going to attempt this weekend..

Oh yea.. do you know of any good website to get the citra hops?

thanks again.

If anyone has had this beer, they know why I am asking for input. It has moved up to the top of the APA rankings on beeradvocate for good reason. http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/26/64228

Does anyone have any information other than it is a Single Hop (Citra), 6.2%, 50 ibu APA?


***It seems we are getting somewhere on this clone. After a couple revisions, here is the updated Recipe--(I removed the original to avoid any confusion):

Batch Size: 6 gallons
Estimated Original Gravity: 1.065
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.018
Estimated Color: 8.5 SRM
Bitterness: 65.9 IBU
Mash Temp: 154 F
60 min boil

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
11.75 lb 2 Row (2.0 SRM) Grain 81.7 %
1.13 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 7.8 %
0.50 lb Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.5 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3.5 %
0.50 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 3.5 %
0.75 oz Citra [12.40%] (First Wort Hop) Hops 17.0 IBU***
1.25 oz Citra [12.40%] (15 min) Hops 21.1 IBU
1.25 oz Citra [12.40%] (10 min) Hops 15.4 IBU
1.25 oz Citra [12.40%] (5 min) Hops 8.5 IBU
1.25 oz Citra [12.40%] (1 min) Hops 1.8 IBU
3.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
SafAle English Ale (S-04) **
London ESB 1968**

**For the first batch with this recipe, I split it and used the 2 different yeasts (S-04 and S-05). The S-04 was closer to the real Zombie Dust. The S-04 is fruitier, and had a bit higher FG (1.018 ) that the S-05 (dryer, more bitterness). I have also used 1968 and it was similar to the S-04, perhaps a bit fruitier and it was sweeter/higher FG. If using it I would recommend mashing a few degrees cooler. That said, I would recommend S-04 or 1968 at this time.

Here is the extract conversion for anyone interested:

6.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 70.6 %
1.00 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 11.8 %
0.50 lb Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.50 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.75 oz Citra [12.40%] (First Wort Hop) Hops 12.5 IBU***
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (60 min) Hops 25.1 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (15 min) Hops 12.4 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (10 min) Hops 9.1 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (1 min) Hops 1.1 IBU
3.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04)
or
Wyeast 1968

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.066 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.018 SG
Estimated Color: 9.0 SRM
Bitterness: 65.2 IBU

Steep the grains at in the mid 150s for 45-60 minutes. It is assuming a 5 gallon batch, 3 gallon - 60 minute boil, and adding the extract at the beginning. If you can do a full boil you probably wouldn't need the extra oz at 60minutes.

***The FWH ibus were calculated based on a 20 min boil to more accurately calculate the perceived bitterness.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

Yes, that's the recipe. A far as citra goes, I am not sure. Brewmasters warehouse might, but they aren't cheap. Te new harvest should be out soon.

 

[edroberts]

Yes, that's the recipe. A far as citra goes, I am not sure. Brewmasters warehouse might, but they aren't cheap. Te new harvest should be out soon.

Word is that most, if not all of the Citra is accounted for in contracts and very little will be available for homebrewers. Hope that's not the case.

 

[squeekybobo]

Word is that most, if not all of the Citra is accounted for in contracts and very little will be available for homebrewers. Hope that's not the case.

Better order in bulk the minute I see it somewhere...

 

[TheBreweryUnderground]

I'm enjoying some of the real deal now and it's great. It was the biggest PITA to finally get to the brewery at the right time but well worth it for two cases. I picked up Citra a few months ago from Brewtensils in Dayton, Ohio and have about half a pound left for another try at a ZD clone.

 

[MW66]

Here's my attempt. I think I hit the color spot on. The real Zombie Dust is on the left. However, my version had more body and not quite the bitter punch backbone as the original. The original Zombie Dust seemed a little more crisp to me. My FG finished at 1.020 which is a little higher than the original. I measured the original Zombie Dust at 1.016. My recipe has:

80% 2 row pale malt
13.3% Munich Light malt
3.3% Carapils
3.3% Crystal 60L

I skipped the melanoiden malt. In my recipe (6.5 gallons) I used 9 ounces of Citra hops, 3 of which were in dry hopping. My mash was at 154/155F and I'm going to drop that closer to 150F and up the IBU's slightly. My calculated IBU's were at 70. I am contemplating switching to US-05, but I think I'll stick with US-04 again. I'll be sure to post my 2nd attempt, but it won't be for a while.

 

[stubbornman]

Wow, the appearance is definitely spot on MW. Well done.

 

[lopatkam]

For what it is worth, I made the recipe found at the top of this thread June 23, and just finished the keg last week. I reduced the first hop addition because my Citra was at 13.90%. The beer was GREAT. Very close to 3 Floyds, but it has been months since any of us had the original. The most common remark was this had a little more body to it. Regardless of how close this beer came out, this recipe is a winner! The next batch will be 10 gallons and will be one of the few brews that I will repeat. Thanks for this great thread!!!

In the spirit of full discloser, a bee flew over the wort during the boil and fell in. I found it in the spent hops while cleaning the keggle. I may have a hard time finding a bee when I brew this beer in November, but I’ll try!

OG:1.063
FG:1.015
ABV: 6.29%
SRM:9.2 (calculated)
IBUs:59.09 (calculated)

 

[mcotter]

Just cracked open the first bottle, been in the bottle about 2 weeks. Taste is good but I hoping it will continue to improve over the next week or two. It just didn't seem as if it was "done".

Color is just a little darker than what I was hoping for but not too far off from what I've seen.

 

[eanmcnulty]

Here is what I bottled tonight:

Zombie Dust Clone – Brewed with 50% Citra/50% Amarillo
Batch Size 3 gal
Estimated OG: 1.066 SG
Estimated Color: 8.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 65.0 IBUs

6.76 lb Pale 2 Row, US 81.7%
0.64 lb Munich 10L 7.7%
0.29 lb Carafoam 3.5%
0.29 lb Caramel 60L 3.5%
0.29 lb Melanoiden Malt 3.5%
0.25 oz Citra [11.40 %] - First Wort 20.0 min
0.25 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 15.0 minIBUs
0.50 oz Citra [11.40 %] - Boil 15.0 min
0.33 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min
0.33 oz Citra [11.40 %] - Boil 10.0 min
0.33 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min
0.33 oz Citra [11.40 %] - Boil 5.0 min
0.33 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 1.0 min
0.33 oz Citra [11.40 %] - Boil 1.0 min
1.0 pkg London ESB Ale Wyeast Labs #1968
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Day
0.50 oz Citra [11.40 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days
Mash 154F

I drank the pint that didn't go into a bottle. Even flat this is awesome. Almost like a cask version. Amarillo/Citra rocks.

I recommend trying this with Citra/Amarillo. Fantastic. Only two weeks in the bottle and the favor is just awesome. This will go quickly.
For the next batch I'm going to ad Simcoe to the mix. I'll post it.

 

[eanmcnulty]

In the spirit of full discloser, a bee flew over the wort during the boil and fell in. I found it in the spent hops while cleaning the keggle. I may have a hard time finding a bee when I brew this beer in November, but I’ll try.

Try to find an Africanized Honey Bee, a Killer Bee. It will give your beer a more aggressive profile.