2P-Twent-E: the new Brouwerij Boerderij Kabouter

[wyzazz]

Any updates??

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I am actually working on another system right now for HBT member SuperiorBrew. That has taken over all my project time... sorry.

I will have some very sexy pictures of that build soon though... It will be a DITCHES brewery.

 

[wyzazz]

I am actually working on another system right now for HBT member SuperiorBrew. That has taken over all my project time... sorry.

I will have some very sexy pictures of that build soon though... It will be a DITCHES brewery.

Prepping for your own dream build I see? Can't wait to see the pics!

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Pretty much. This thing is pretty unreal, spared no expense. Rich (SuperiorBrew) is going to have one of the best systems around IMO.

 

[KingBrianI]

Are you taking requests? Shoot, I'll have to start saving up! Post some pics of this super system you're talking about!

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I am willing to consider requests. I have to finish Rich's DITCHES build, then finish my own brewery, but in maybe 3 months I could start a new build for someone.

To be upfront, the cost of the 2P-Twent-E as designed here would be about $2,000-$2,500. I don't know yet, but will have a production cost for you all when I am finished.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

You can see the other build here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/superiorbrews-ditches-172520/

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Really getting the itch to finish this build. No funds at all though... BOO

I have a few brews I really want to get going and I have 2/4 taps running dry with nothing in the pipeline at all. Yikes.

It needs to be summer and I need to get this round of bills paid for. I am dying. At least I have Rich's build to fiddle with and keep me going.

The 2P-Twent-E just kills me because it is so close to being done. 1 day of work and it would be brewing.

 

[SgtHulka]

Did you finish the build?

 

[Maltose]

Thanks for the photos on your wiring, they were really helpful. I'm working on a build inspired by your DITCHES. Good stuff man, keep it up.

Oh, and your neutral power block has neutral spelled wrong

 

[southpawbrew]

Ok I copied the 2p-Ewent-E control box almost verbatim. Everything was going along swimmingly, got 3-4 brews under my belt with the box. Last weekend had a brew day lined up got everything measured out ready to rock and bam no power to the rims element. Scoured through all the wiring nothings changed ok looks good. Took off the jumpers and pid settings to trigger the alarms to kill the element power just to simplify. Maybe that's crossing up somehow, no go still no power. Must be the ssr is shot. Yeah that's it. Order a new ssr from Aubers got here today wired it up no go...AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH.

Ideas, things to check? I got two grain bills from BrewMasters Warehouse sitting in my fermentation chamber, crushed, and I want(need to get this problem solved. Any help is most appreciated

 

[wyzazz]

Ok I copied the 2p-Ewent-E control box almost verbatim. Everything was going along swimmingly, got 3-4 brews under my belt with the box. Last weekend had a brew day lined up got everything measured out ready to rock and bam no power to the rims element. Scoured through all the wiring nothings changed ok looks good. Took off the jumpers and pid settings to trigger the alarms to kill the element power just to simplify. Maybe that's crossing up somehow, no go still no power. Must be the ssr is shot. Yeah that's it. Order a new ssr from Aubers got here today wired it up no go...AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH.

Ideas, things to check? I got two grain bills from BrewMasters Warehouse sitting in my fermentation chamber, crushed, and I want(need to get this problem solved. Any help is most appreciated

Dead Element?

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Do you have a multi-meter? That would really help to find the problem. I feel bad, I thought you were sure it was the SSR. It could be a dead element. I know that they can fail, even if you don't burn them dry.

If you have a multi-meter (or are willing to buy one, even a cheapo will work for hobby projects liek this), check the output from the PID, it should be 12v. Then, if that is working, check the output of the SSR when it is switched on. That should read 115vac or whatever you are pushing through from the wall.

Have you checked the fuses? Those are there for a reason... maybe you burned it. If so, first check to make sure a the proper fuse was there, then try to determine what would have drawn enough current to burn it.

 

[southpawbrew]

Boerderij_Kabouter:

Thanks for all your help, the box is solid I have something a miss and I just can't nail down what it is. It's not the box's fault he's ready to power through all the brews I have lined up :rockin: I feel like I'm letting him down.

If you have a multi-meter I do have a multi-meter and checked the output of the PID (5V) Ok there's an issue. Could it be a setting in the PID? I also notice that the LED light in the element switch is dim when in the on position. It has been dim from the beginning but functioned properly. I put a call into Auber looking for some help.

Check the output of the SSR when it is switched on. No output at all. The light on the SSR lights on/off in conjunction with the PID output light but no power to the element outlet. There is 115v power supplied to the input on the ssr.

It could be a dead element. The element is still good. It works when plugged into my other 20 amp outlet no tied to the ssr/pid control.

Have you checked the fuses? Last night I replaced the 20amp fuse on the circuit to the element plug. Looked fine but I replaced it just in case.

 

[wyzazz]

Definately sounds like your PID is malfunctioning somewhere, I'm sure the folks at Auber will get you squared away.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Hmmm..... the Auber SSR's should switch with anything over 3VDC. Seems odd that it is not switching.

Do you have the Auber PID (http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=3)? If so, it should be sending 12vDC to the SSR. That seems odd. If it isn't that PID, then it could be a 5v output model and everything is normal.

Do you have a power supply you could test the SSR with?

What a pain, I am sorry this happened to you. Putzy problems like that drive me mad.

 

[southpawbrew]

Yeah the Syl 2352 that's the pid I have the new ssr 25 amp also came from auber. Could I just use a 12v wall wort take the + and - and attach to the ssr to test? Is there a way to reset the pid to factory settings to see if that corrects something. Couldn't find that in the manual

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I don't know of a reset. I would call Auber, they are super helpful.

 

[southpawbrew]

Got an e-mail back from Auber. There tech was out of the office today. Have to say the information may be helpful but I need help interpreting the info to make it relevant to the control box:

We never wired the SSR output like you did. There seems two potential problems. 1) if the diode has a low break down potential , the 240 V will be added to the internal transistor and damage it. 2) the output of the SSR control has only limited capacity. It might not be able to drive the diode you have.
Here is how the SSR control output design.

The output driver is a 9013 transistor with a 200 ohm current limit resistor. The power to the transistor is 9V, not 12 V. The open circuit of the output is 8V, not 12V. If your load resistance is 200 ohm, the output will drop to 4V due to the internal current limit resistor.
I hope that helps.

Questions:

1. In this context is the diode referring to the item being switched (the element)?

2. He refers to the "240v being added to the transistor and damage it" where is the 240v coming from? This set up is only running on 110v. The "transistor" he refers to would be within the PID?

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

What did you send them? That is confusing? Any EE's want to chime in?

 

[southpawbrew]

I sent them the wiring schematic. I am going to call them on Monday and hopefully clear this up

 

[CodeRage]

I've briefly read through this but it sounded liked it worked until you put in the alarm contact. Try bypassing the alarm contact with a jumper and see how that goes.

The DIM Led sounds like something is floating, perhaps a 5.6k pull down resistor across the + and - terminals of the relay would fix this. I am guessing that breaking the + side with the alarm contact has something to do with this. Doesn't explain where the potential is coming from though.

If anything, just disconnect the PID completely and use a wall transformer power supply to trigger the SSR. If the element turns on, the problem is on the DC side.

Attach the PID back but straight to the SSR control line, if it has a manual function use that to turn it on. If that works take one more step closer to the final wiring.

good luck

 

[southpawbrew]

Thanks CodeRage...that gives me concrete steps for troubleshooting...felt like I didn't have a plan of attack, now I do.

 

[southpawbrew]

I am starting to get the feeling that a problem does exist within the PID. I will talk with Auber on Monday and I hope to get clarification. If there is a problem I just want to make sure that the problem doesn't exist in something that will just damage the new PID as well. Again thanks for all the continued help.

If anything, just disconnect the PID completely and use a wall transformer power supply to trigger the SSR. If the element turns on, the problem is on the DC side.

With the wall transformer the ssr triggered and powered the element outlet.

Attach the PID back but straight to the SSR control line, if it has a manual function use that to turn it on. If that works take one more step closer to the final wiring.

Did this and no go. This time there was no ouput power reading from the multi-meter coming from the PID to the SSR

The DIM Led sounds like something is floating, perhaps a 5.6k pull down resistor across the + and - terminals of the relay would fix this.

Not familiar with a 5.6k pull down resistor is. This would be used on which side of the SSR? The power side coming from the PID or the output side coming out of the SSR to the element outlet?

I am guessing that breaking the + side with the alarm contact has something to do with this. Doesn't explain where the potential is coming from though.

I completely elemented the breaking of the + with the alarm. Both in the wiring and the setting in the PID. Same problems still exist.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Any update Southpaw? I hope you got it figured out...

 

[southpawbrew]

I just got my PID back from Auber...it had a fried resistor...not sure were it got fried but Auber thinks it would of have to been exposed to the 110v on the system...perhaps I made a mistake when wiring for the alarm, can't say...they repaired it and the PID now works...the problem still exists with the switch for the element where the light was very dim and not switching the element...so I wired the PID without the switch for now...I got a brew on it this last weekend and everything went well...I just lower the SV to well below PV as a means of keeping the element from coming on if I am switching hoses or the like...I'll have to tackle the switch at some point but the system is working and functional.

I would like to comment on the customer service from Auber...they were very quick to respond to my questions and went above and beyond in helping me correct the problem. My PID was 1 month out of warranty but they fixed it anyway and turned it around in less than 2 days...great company.

 

[IrregularPulse]

POWER!

These are the cords I built for power in and element power. 12AWG stranded, protected with PET weave, heat shrunk ends, and 20 amp plugs.

sexy....

I agree. Any chance of getting a parts list of connectors, receptacles and the mesh wrap you used?
One tip on the mesh wrap though. After taping the wrap on, push it up over itself and inside the connector and cinch with a small sip tie. Hides the tape and looks super clean. We use a similar type here for the cables for our machines. We only have black, but I like the white you have and those connectors. Very Storm Trooper

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

http://cableorganizer.com/braided-sleeving/

Connectors were from Home Depot. They are industrial quality (they looked way better than the cheapos).

Pretty much the whole system will be black, except the hoses and the cords. Perfect for stealth brewing.

 

[MilwaukeeBrewGuy]

Dude I like your designs. I like the fact that you set yourself up to use RIMS or HERMS. The one thing i don't really understand is only having one PID. When you brew with RIMS, wouldn't you need 2 PID's? One to control the MLT and the other to control the RIMS heat element?

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

The MLT does not have an element in it. Only the BK and the RIMS have an element, and only one can be run at any given time.

In other news, I am working on the pump setup and have ordered my first kettle. So I should have some updates soon.