2nd Dry Hop in conical - avoiding oxygen

[hlmbrwng]

Hello all. I have been using a conical fermentor for a little over a year now. What I have been doing for my beers that undergo two dry hops is the following:

First dry hop occurs toward the end of fermentation. I figure, although I am allowing oxygen in when I add the dry hops, there is still yeast working away, using up some of the oxygen, and also producing C02 to displace the O2. I don't really know how sound this logic is.
Second dry hop occurs when fermentation is pretty much done. So, any oxygen that gets in is able to be absorb by the beer.

(I've been going back and forth with using a nylon bag for both first and second dry hop. Sometimes I use it only for the first dry hop, so I can remove after 3-5 days, and then just throw the pellets in directly for the second dry hop)

How do people dry hop to minimize the exposure to oxygen?

Something I have done before, something that I am thinking of doing again is this...

Perform first dry hop as usual. For the second dry hop, first transfer beer to keg first, then add hops in a nylon bag. Then I can flush out the keg headspace with C02.

 

[IslandLizard]

Can you add dry hops, through say the blow off port, while streaming CO2 in through another port in the lid simultaneously? That way no air can get in.

That's what I do with my plastic brew buckets. The 1" (extra) access hole I drilled in the lid also allows me to stick the back of my plastic brewing spoon in and give the beer a little stir once or twice a day, all under CO2. I do closed transfers to the keg the same way. The lid only comes off to harvest the yeast and/or clean.

 

[PeteSeattle]

I’m also trying to accomplish this. As of now I do hook up my co2 to my PRV (spike conical with spunding valve) and have co2 flowing at 2-3 psi. I gently open the center lid allowing co2 to spill out and dump the hops in.

I’ve since discovered this contraption and I’m very tempted...

 

[mongoose33]

I just did a dry-hop in my Spike conical. I used a screen tube to do that, though I'm leaning toward just tossing them in next time.

Anyway, in a fashion similar to @IslandLizard notes above, I attach a CO2 line to the pressure manifold, and feed about 2psi into the fermenter as I remove the center stainless coil assembly (for chilling) and raise it just enough to get the screen tube in there.

As I'm putting that tube in there, I'm making sure there's positive pressure pushing CO2 out of the fermenter.

Of course, that doesn't affect the air in the tube. To combat that--and this is convoluted, I'm working on better methods--I'll sanitize a plastic bread bag, and sanitize the screen tube. I'll put the sanitized tube inside the bread bag, and feed CO2 into that to drive out as much air as I can. I'll put in the hop pellets, and again hit with CO2. I'm sure it's not perfect, but it's better than air alone.

I pulled the tube out of the breadbag as I lifted the chiller assembly and let it go inside, plop. Then the chilling assembly is reattached.

I do this with some fermentation remaining, so like you I'm hoping whatever O2 gets in can be consumed by the yeast that's still working.

Working on a better way to isolate the screened tube, but I'm increasingly thinking I'd be better off just to snip open a pellet packet and dump it in past the CO2 exiting from the fermenter.

 

[jasonv]

I have been dry hopping in a conical fermentor post fermentation for over a year now with no issues with oxidation. I open the corney keg type lid on my blichmann conical and dump in the hops.

I leave the 1st dryhop charge in the fermentor with no off flavors noticed.

The issues i had in the past were with transfers into serving kegs. I dident purge the kegs enough. Now i push starsan out via co2 and then three 30psi purges. No more oxidation!!!!

 

[IslandLizard]

and this is convoluted

There is no such thing as convoluted when it gets you the best beer possible with the equipment at hand!

Even backflips are allowed.

 

[mongoose33]

There is no such thing as convoluted when it gets you the best beer possible with the equipment at hand!

Even backflips are allowed.

I have envisioned a method with a PVC pipe that I'd clean and sanitize, then slide the cleaned and sanitized screen tube down inside. I'd purge that with CO2, add hops, purge more, put the cap on the screened tube, and I'd essentially have a screened tube full of hops and CO2 and nothing else. In theory.

Then I'd simply invert the PVC pipe and plop the screened tube into the fermenter.

Then again, I'm still wondering if it wouldn't just be best to dump the pellets in.

 

[IslandLizard]

Now i push starsan out via co2 and then three 30psi purges.

There are better methods that are just as simple with true, near 100% CO2 pre-purges.

 

[IslandLizard]

Then again, I'm still wondering if it wouldn't just be best to dump the pellets in.

That's what I've been doing the past 2-3 years, into a slow counter current stream of CO2.*
Before, similar to you, I used weighed down hop bags, flushed them with CO2, then lifted the lid slightly to drop the bag in. Flushed the headspace a few times afterward. I still do that when I want to dry hop a keg.

*Agitation of the dry hops after adding is a separate issue. I noticed the hop pulp tends to float for a while, I like to get it submerged ASAP. Hence the stirring. Then stir once or twice a day for better/quicker extraction. The beer remains 3-7 days with dry hops, max.

 

[mongoose33]

I'm going to repeat my method for purging kegs here.

I start by filling a keg with Star-San. I then crack the lid, add a line with CO2 to the OUT post, and start pushing short shots of CO2 in there. Yeah, you need a BLACK QD on the line to do this. This creates bubbles. BTW, don't give it one long blast unless you want Star-San all over everywhere. Don't ask how I know.

In doing this, I'm creating bubbles at the top of the keg, and enough that eventually they will fill the headspace, the area under the keg lid, and all the surrounding area. What do those bubbles contain? Why, CO2 of course.



I then push that Star-San out of the keg into another clean keg (rotating kegs as I go forward), using a jumper and CO2 on the normal IN post. At that point, I have about as good a purged keg as I can get.

I don't worry about short dip tubes or anything else. The next time I need a purged keg, I push the star-san out of this one, and of course the only thing in it is CO2, plus a tiny bit of residual star-san.

******

How to get rid of that little bit of residual Star San? I take that keg over to the sink and attach a QD to the OUT post, a QD that has a 20-inch section of tubing attached. As soon as I attach it, of course, the CO2 starts blowing out through the tubing. I rock the keg so the escaping Co2 takes the star-san with it out the tube, such that by the time the keg is depressurized, no star-san is left. Just CO2.

In my Torpedo kegs, the dip tube is in a depression at the outside of the keg, so I just tilt the keg toward that post, the star-san gathers there, then up the dip tube it goes. With soda kegs, the depression into which the dip tube extends is in the center so I let the keg sit flat.

In either case, a little rocking of the keg and that star-san is gone.

 

[PeteSeattle]

Then again, I'm still wondering if it wouldn't just be best to dump the pellets in.

I’m putting my faith in that blanket of continuous stream of co2 and have just dumped them in.

 

[mongoose33]

I’m putting my faith in that blanket of continuous stream of co2 and have just dumped them in.

It's not so much that--the packet is supposed to be purged already--but I was trying to reduce the amount of hop trub in the fermenter.

My albeit limited experience with the screened tube is that it doesn't appear that the hops give up all their essence. This last time, the tube had the usual mush on the bottom that looks like release from an intestinally-ill baby, but there are dry-ish hop pellets at the top. I can't figure that one out. Not the first time.

Dumping them right in should allow them to give up the greatest amount of essence.

Thinking about trying Cryo-hops for that, too.

 

[PeteSeattle]

Thinking about trying Cryo-hops for that, too.

Ah, yes. I failed to mention that I’m using cryo for dry hopping in addition to late and whirlpool usage.

But, yeah. I wanted more contact with the wort thus just duping them in. I pulled a sample and my NEIPA is a pale 5 srm ... same as it was pre-dry hopping so no sign of oxidizing yet. The sample valve is awesome and dangerous at the same time (I have to refrain from too many samples).

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

I have been dry hopping in a conical fermentor post fermentation for over a year now with no issues with oxidation. I open the corney keg type lid on my blichmann conical and dump in the hops.

I leave the 1st dryhop charge in the fermentor with no off flavors noticed.

The issues i had in the past were with transfers into serving kegs. I dident purge the kegs enough. Now i push starsan out via co2 and then three 30psi purges. No more oxidation!!!!

good to know this process hasn't led to oxidation issues.

i've been dry hopping in the keg. I purge the kegs with saniclean, then dump in the hops (followed by a few more purges), then a pressure transfer from a plastic carboy. I've had excellent results with this method (IPAs seem super fresh for 4 months)

I've been wanting to upgrade to a conical and was debating if I should still dry hop in the keg to eliminate o2 from the dry hops.

Seems to me if you just dump in the hops to the conical the hops themselves would still introduce 02 (even if you keep positive pressure). What I like about dry hopping in the keg is that I you also can purge the O2 from the hops themselves.

My original thinking was that if I switch to a conical I'd do the first charge early like you do (biotransformation), but would probably still continue doing the final charge in the keg.

Dumping in directly in the conical does seem like its less of a pain in the ass though. And if its working for you that might be the way to go.

I was speaking with a cellarman at a prestigious NYC brewery recently famous for their IPAs. He told me their process is to do the first charge early, and then the final charge while there are still a few gravity points left to ingest the O2. They also spund and carbonate directly in the conical.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

I'm going to repeat my method for purging kegs here.

I start by filling a keg with Star-San. I then crack the lid, add a line with CO2 to the OUT post, and start pushing short shots of CO2 in there. Yeah, you need a BLACK QD on the line to do this. This creates bubbles. BTW, don't give it one long blast unless you want Star-San all over everywhere. Don't ask how I know.

In doing this, I'm creating bubbles at the top of the keg, and enough that eventually they will fill the headspace, the area under the keg lid, and all the surrounding area. What do those bubbles contain? Why, CO2 of course.

View attachment 596459

I then push that Star-San out of the keg into another clean keg (rotating kegs as I go forward), using a jumper and CO2 on the normal IN post. At that point, I have about as good a purged keg as I can get.

I don't worry about short dip tubes or anything else. The next time I need a purged keg, I push the star-san out of this one, and of course the only thing in it is CO2, plus a tiny bit of residual star-san.

******

How to get rid of that little bit of residual Star San? I take that keg over to the sink and attach a QD to the OUT post, a QD that has a 20-inch section of tubing attached. As soon as I attach it, of course, the CO2 starts blowing out through the tubing. I rock the keg so the escaping Co2 takes the star-san with it out the tube, such that by the time the keg is depressurized, no star-san is left. Just CO2.

In my Torpedo kegs, the dip tube is in a depression at the outside of the keg, so I just tilt the keg toward that post, the star-san gathers there, then up the dip tube it goes. With soda kegs, the depression into which the dip tube extends is in the center so I let the keg sit flat.

In either case, a little rocking of the keg and that star-san is gone.

I've switched from starsan to saniclean for my keg purges since saniclean doesn't foam up.

To get the final bit of saniclean out I flip the keg upside down (with some CO2 left in keg) and pull the PRV over my bath tub. A little messy, but it gets it out

 

[couchsending]

good to know this process hasn't led to oxidation issues.

i've been dry hopping in the keg. I purge the kegs with saniclean, then dump in the hops (followed by a few more purges), then a pressure transfer from a plastic carboy. I've had excellent results with this method (IPAs seem super fresh for 4 months)

I've been wanting to upgrade to a conical and was debating if I should still dry hop in the keg to eliminate o2 from the dry hops.

Seems to me if you just dump in the hops to the conical the hops themselves would still introduce 02 (even if you keep positive pressure). What I like about dry hopping in the keg is that I you also can purge the O2 from the hops themselves.

My original thinking was that if I switch to a conical I'd do the first charge early like you do (biotransformation), but would probably still continue doing the final charge in the keg.

Dumping in directly in the conical does seem like its less of a pain in the ass though. And if its working for you that might be the way to go.

I was speaking with a cellarman at a prestigious NYC brewery recently famous for their IPAs. He told me their process is to do the first charge early, and then the final charge while there are still a few gravity points left to ingest the O2. They also spund and carbonate directly in the conical.

If you have a conical and can dump hops through a smallish hole in the lid (I use a funnel through a 1.5” TC port) and can purge headspace you don’t need to worry about oxidation when adding hops after fermentation. If you worry about hops containing minute amounts of O2 then crumble them all up.