2nd all grain and first stuck sparge!

[Bombeque]

Hey guys, well Im guessing it was beginners luck on the first batch, because the second batch went down hill quick! To start, it was a saison all grain kit from Homebrewersoutpost.com
I have the 10 gallon mash tun from homebrewing.org. It has the false bottom with a detachable tube and fitting that goes in the middle of the false bottom. Anyways all of this moves quite easily I found out. When doughing in, I stirred real deep to make sure there were no dough balls and best I can figure, I knocked the fitting out of place and all the grains went underneath the false bottom! So to correct, I poured the mash in a pot and cleared everything out. Put it back. It was still clogged a bit, so remembering what Palmer said, I blew in the hose. Which in turn blew the tube and fitting out AGAIN! Twice I did this!! Until finally I got it and was able to sparge correctly. I had about 6.5 gallons total, getting a preboil of 1.038 (in the pot) and 1.042 (in the graduated cylinder)...have no idea why I got 2 different readings. Post boil was 1.069 after the 1 lb of candi sugar added and final 4.75 gal volume. Oh and, my begining mash temp was 152, I checked again after 2 mins and it was still 152. Checked after the hour and it was 156! Im hoping I can get the fg down ok. Anyway these are my thoughts and ramblings for this batch. Any input is welcome! BTW my grain bill was 10.5lbs. I calculated my mash eff around 70%? Is this about right? I fly sparged but not as slow as I did last batch due to all other things going wrong. Im sure I can get better next time.

 

[cooper]

Congratulations on learning your brewhouse! I'm still learning mine as well, but that's sort of the fun part of it too. Just take good notes and apply everything you've learned from this batch to the next one and sooner or later, you'll run out of mistakes to make and finally have a decent brew day.

 

[Bombeque]

Thanks! Yea def dialing it in. I know it will take some time, just hoping batches in the mean time come out more than just "drinkable"!

 

[cooper]

Make sure you're getting your water right though for the different styles you're brewing too. Do you use Reverse Osmosis water or is your tap water working out well for you? My tap water was terrible for brewing (more of the mistakes I was talking about earlier) so I started building my own water for the style I was brewing. Making sure the salts are where they need to be in your water really helps everything from attenuation to taste.

Here is an excellent sticky on matching your water to the style you're brewing.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/

Basically as follows:

Baseline: Add 1 tsp of calcium chloride dihydrate (what your LHBS sells) to each 5 gallons of water treated. Add 2% sauermalz to the grist.

Deviate from the baseline as follows:

Hefeweizen: For soft water beers (i.e Pils, Helles). Use half the baseline amount of calcium chloride and increase the sauermalz to 3% (you can make great Hefe with soft water too).

Porter: For beers that use roast malt (Stout, porter): Skip the sauermalz.

Light Ale: For British beers: Add 1 tsp gypsum as well as 1 tsp calcium chloride

IPA: For very minerally beers (Export, Burton ale): Double the calcium chloride and the gypsum.

Pilsner or soft water styles: 1/2 tsp calcium chloride, 3% sauermalz

American Pale Ale: 1 tsp calcium chloride, 1 tsp gypsum, 2% sauermalz

British Pale Ale: 2 tsp calcium chloride, 1 tsp gypsum, 2% sauermalz

Hoppy/Strong British Ale: 4 tsp calcium chloride, 2 tsp gypsum, 2% sauermalz

Porter or Stout: 1 tsp calcium chloride (no sauermalz)

Cascadian Dark Ale (hoppy): 1 tsp calcium chloride, 1 tsp gypsum (no sauermalz)

 

[Bombeque]

Interesting. I have been using filtered tap water. I havent yet tasted any of my beers because Im waiting for them to either finish fermenting or bottle conditioning. Boy I hope my water is ok. Ill def check out that thread though. Doesnt seem too hard to do.

 

[saintdog327]

I'm guessing you got two different readings because of the difference in temperature between the tube and the pot. I may be wrong though...

 

[Bombeque]

I'm guessing you got two different readings because of the difference in temperature between the tube and the pot. I may be wrong though...

Didnt think of that. Im guessing then that the graduated cylinder reading is right. Thats means 1.042 preboil, 6.5 gallons collected and 10.5lbs of grain. Im getting 72% eff out of that, is this right? BTW I tested the gravity of the beer tonight, and tasted of course. It has a reading of 1.012, I cant believe it. Only 3 days! Down from 1.070. It tastes like a hefe, guessing its the forbidden fruit yeast. One thing though, its really cloudy. Could I get rid of this with gelatin if Im bottling?

 

[cooper]

Interesting. I have been using filtered tap water. I havent yet tasted any of my beers because Im waiting for them to either finish fermenting or bottle conditioning. Boy I hope my water is ok. Ill def check out that thread though. Doesnt seem too hard to do.

Your water should be fine, the calcium and chloride and sometimes sulfate for hoppy beers just help out with making a good beer better, and the different types of grains can cause the pH to either rise or fall and the salts and acid malt help out with keeping it in the most optimal range where you get the best efficiency.

 

[stratslinger]

Didnt think of that. Im guessing then that the graduated cylinder reading is right. Thats means 1.042 preboil, 6.5 gallons collected and 10.5lbs of grain. Im getting 72% eff out of that, is this right? BTW I tested the gravity of the beer tonight, and tasted of course. It has a reading of 1.012, I cant believe it. Only 3 days! Down from 1.070. It tastes like a hefe, guessing its the forbidden fruit yeast. One thing though, its really cloudy. Could I get rid of this with gelatin if Im bottling?

First off, without knowing your grain bill, nobody can verify your efficiency calculation. And always remember that you have to adjust your hyrdometer readings for temperature! There should be a little instruction sheet that came with your hydrometer that tells you what temp it's calibrated for and how to adjust for temperature. Generally speaking, it's best to get the wort or beer you're measuring as close as you can to the calibrated temperature.

Secondly, yes, it's not uncommon for a beer to ferment out that quickly. That said, if it's only been three days, it's way too soon to make any judgement calls on flavor or cloudiness - you still need time to let the yeast clean up after themselves (this will help the flavor) and then settle out of solution (thus clearing things up).

If in another week or two it's still really cloudy, I'd think gelatin could help. And it's not going to take so much yeast out of solution that it'd cause you problems when bottling.

 

[cooper]

Didnt think of that. Im guessing then that the graduated cylinder reading is right. Thats means 1.042 preboil, 6.5 gallons collected and 10.5lbs of grain. Im getting 72% eff out of that, is this right? BTW I tested the gravity of the beer tonight, and tasted of course. It has a reading of 1.012, I cant believe it. Only 3 days! Down from 1.070. It tastes like a hefe, guessing its the forbidden fruit yeast. One thing though, its really cloudy. Could I get rid of this with gelatin if Im bottling?

If it's a Hefe, you'll want the cloudiness as Hefe yeast is what most of the flavor is about and a Hefe yeast is low in flocculation so they will usually stay in suspension for a few months before they give up the ghost and fall out of solution. Unless you used a yeast that was something other than a traditional Hefe yeast at which point you've brewed a wheat beer and not a Hefe.

 

[Bombeque]

Yea I figured its too early for taste ect. But as far as the cloudiness, it looked that way when I dumped the wort into the fermenter. Was thinking it had to do with the amount of times I had to dump out the mash to clear the sparge. As far as the hydrometer, I dont have the instructions anymore. I got it in one of the basic beginner kits. All colorful n such. I have been just checking gravity at room temp. The yeast smell reminded me of a hefe, but I dont think its a hefe yeast, its forbidden fruit smack pack, for a saison. Smells good either way. Would it be a no no to transfer this to a secondary? I am making a russian imperial this weekend and want to free up the bucket. I would use my secondary but its only a 5 gallon carboy. Not big enough to handle an imperial stout with OG of 1.100.

 

[cooper]

If you just brewed it this past weekend I wouldn't move it to the secondary just yet. See if you can watch some youtube videos and learn how to use your hydrometer and take some gravity readings. Most people give it at least two weeks before they move it to the secondary but if it's close to the final gravity I'd say you could transfer it and let it sit another three weeks or so, there will still be a lot of yeast in suspension to smooth out any flavors from primary fermentation. Ultimately though its what the hydrometer says that is going to tell you when your beer is finished or not.

 

[Bombeque]

If you just brewed it this past weekend I wouldn't move it to the secondary just yet. See if you can watch some youtube videos and learn how to use your hydrometer and take some gravity readings. Most people give it at least two weeks before they move it to the secondary but if it's close to the final gravity I'd say you could transfer it and let it sit another three weeks or so, there will still be a lot of yeast in suspension to smooth out any flavors from primary fermentation. Ultimately though its what the hydrometer says that is going to tell you when your beer is finished or not.

Yea I know its better to leave it. I think Ill just get another bucket! I know how to use the hydrometer. Just didnt know it was calibrated to temp. I think its close to finished. It was sitting at 1.012 yesterday and I mashed at 156. Didnt think it would get that low.

 

[pabloj13]

Have the same mash tun and had the same problem. Found that 1/2" mpt electrical conduit nuts will fit under the false bottom and attach to the threads to keep that from happening. A little tougher to clean, but no stuck sparge!

 

[El_Exorcisto]

Somehow beer was brewed for millenia before the advent of reverse osmosis. Enjoy your beer before you sweat the minuscule like your water chemistry. Some styles may taste better than others with your water, but the need to build your water to spec is really one of the last toys to play with.

 

[lindsey]

Hey. Can somebody help me out? I am confused. I have only just purchased a boiler, mash tun, and fermentation bin etc. I have just completed my first brew. I don't know what it's like yet until it's fermented and I can taste it. My question is regarding sparge and mash amounts of water. How much water should I sparge with? I used the amount in the recipe but ended up with loads (1.5 gallons) spare. If I had used all of it it would have watered the beer down too much. How do I work out how much to sparge and mash in with? It was a very very basic 5 gallon bitter using 2 malts and 1 hop. I just don't understand amounts of water

 

[rlynge]

Hey. Can somebody help me out? I am confused. I have only just purchased a boiler, mash tun, and fermentation bin etc. I have just completed my first brew. I don't know what it's like yet until it's fermented and I can taste it. My question is regarding sparge and mash amounts of water. How much water should I sparge with? I used the amount in the recipe but ended up with loads (1.5 gallons) spare. If I had used all of it it would have watered the beer down too much. How do I work out how much to sparge and mash in with? It was a very very basic 5 gallon bitter using 2 malts and 1 hop. I just don't understand amounts of water

The simple answer to this question would be to invest in some sort of brewing software. I use beersmith and I must say that I would be in the dark with out it. There are other programs out there too but I prefer beersmith.

 

[kttx740]

Interesting. I have been using filtered tap water. I havent yet tasted any of my beers because Im waiting for them to either finish fermenting or bottle conditioning. Boy I hope my water is ok. Ill def check out that thread though. Doesnt seem too hard to do.

I've been using filtered tap water up in Woodbridge and have not had any water issues yet.

 

[Paul07293]

Somehow beer was brewed for millenia before the advent of reverse osmosis. Enjoy your beer before you sweat the minuscule like your water chemistry. Some styles may taste better than others with your water, but the need to build your water to spec is really one of the last toys to play with.

+1, excellent advice. Learn how to use your equipment and achieve consistency before you start worrying about water chemistry. Unless your water has unusual flavors or aromas it will brew good beer.

The simple answer to this question would be to invest in some sort of brewing software. I use beersmith and I must say that I would be in the dark with out it. There are other programs out there too but I prefer beersmith.

+1 again. BeerSmith, Promash or one the the freeware packages out there will simplify your brew day, unless you like doing the math longhand. Then there are plenty of threads here with the formulas to calculate water volumes and temps.

 

[stratslinger]

Brewtarget works pretty well for figuring out Mash schedules and volumes too - and it's about twenty-odd bucks more free than Beersmith.

Not sure how the two compare feature-to-feature, but if you want to play around with some brewing software with no cash investment, it's another good option to try out.

 

[cooper]

Somehow beer was brewed for millenia before the advent of reverse osmosis. Enjoy your beer before you sweat the minuscule like your water chemistry. Some styles may taste better than others with your water, but the need to build your water to spec is really one of the last toys to play with.

I agree completely with what you're saying. A person should understand how to use their equipment and have a few batches under their belt before messing around with adjusting their water to get better beer. And, if they're doing mostly extract batches anyway, the wort has already been created with the proper amounts of salts/minerals for that type of beer so adding what is essentially sparge water isn't going to change the beer any.

I do think that if someone has been doing all grain batches for a while and they feel their beers are lacking that something special then they could/should start looking at their water to see what they can do to get it closer to what it needs to be for the style they're brewing. It's not hard to remember to add half a tsp of calcium chloride to five gallons of strike water to get a sweeter and better attenuating Hefe.

It's all about learning more though I guess. Once you feel comfortable with the process of brewing it's only natural to start asking yourself what else there is out there to learn.

 

[Bombeque]

Well I have to say since last post, I brewed the HBT first place winner RIS this past weekend, and have my confidence back. Over 20lbs of grain and no stuck sparge this time! It took 6 hours total and around 12 gallons of water. Was a beast to brew, but I think itll be well worth it. Preboil gravity was 1.072, OG was 1.100.

 

[BarryBrews]

I know this is an older post, but the following may help someone......

I have fixed the stuck mash problem! It's easy, use a brew bag, use a pump to under let the strike water, then recirculate the wort WITHOUT ever stirring the mash tun. That's right, don't stir the mash! Yep, throw out that mash paddle. And don't worry, brewing is still fun. Under letting really does prevent dough balls. Where as stirring the mash causes the grist to settle out in layers. Think about yeast cleaning in how the fine particles suspend then settle on top, same thing happens in the mash tun. I crush my grist directly into the mash tun alternating bowl fulls of the malts into the mill as a means of mixing, though it's not really necessary. I also use a flowmeter on the output of my pump for consistency and proof that my mash never even slows down. I under let the mash tun at 2 gallons per minute and then immediately start to recirculate the wort at 3 gallons per minute for a 10 gallon batch.

The brew bag is essential for clear wort to the kettle, just as leaving the hops, and the cold and hot break material in the kettle is important for clear wort to the fermenter. I whirlpool my NEIPA hops at 160 F and then let the wort settle in the kettle overnight. I get all the hop flavor without dry hopping and as a nice side effect the fermenter never erupts krausen out the airlock, even with a hefeweizen. The theory being the yeast cling to the solids causing greater movement which leads to faster fermentation and the eruption. My beers have improved dramatically since I started clear wort brewing. It is right up there with oxygen free brewing techniques. Try it.

 

[deuc224]

I know this is an older post, but the following may help someone......

I have fixed the stuck mash problem! It's easy, use a brew bag, use a pump to under let the strike water, then recirculate the wort WITHOUT ever stirring the mash tun. That's right, don't stir the mash! Yep, throw out that mash paddle. And don't worry, brewing is still fun. Under letting really does prevent dough balls. Where as stirring the mash causes the grist to settle out in layers. Think about yeast cleaning in how the fine particles suspend then settle on top, same thing happens in the mash tun. I crush my grist directly into the mash tun alternating bowl fulls of the malts into the mill as a means of mixing, though it's not really necessary. I also use a flowmeter on the output of my pump for consistency and proof that my mash never even slows down. I under let the mash tun at 2 gallons per minute and then immediately start to recirculate the wort at 3 gallons per minute for a 10 gallon batch.

The brew bag is essential for clear wort to the kettle, just as leaving the hops, and the cold and hot break material in the kettle is important for clear wort to the fermenter. I whirlpool my NEIPA hops at 160 F and then let the wort settle in the kettle overnight. I get all the hop flavor without dry hopping and as a nice side effect the fermenter never erupts krausen out the airlock, even with a hefeweizen. The theory being the yeast cling to the solids causing greater movement which leads to faster fermentation and the eruption. My beers have improved dramatically since I started clear wort brewing. It is right up there with oxygen free brewing techniques. Try it.

Who the hell does this as well? Ive heard about oxidation and blah blah but I did this with the chocolate stout and it turned out fantastic. I didnt use my CFC and just let it whirlpool and let it settle overnight and then woke up and transferred it to the fermenter and pitched the yeast, finished in 3 days.

 

[BarryBrews]

I didnt use my CFC

Actually, a CFC cools the wort to 160F, 6 to 8 ounces of hops are whirlpooled for 20 minutes, followed by cooling to less than 80F and then settling overnight. The settling overnight is to allow the large amount of hops to compact and maximize the clear wort to the fermenter. I find hop baskets/muslin bags a nuisance to used, so I exchanged my Therminator for a Kegco CFC and let my hops roam free. BTW, the next day the wort is passed through the CFC with hot water to bring the wort up to kveik pitching temperature. High, high praise for the Kegco CFC, though not as efficiency it is a breeze to clean.