23 Tip Jet Burner problems

[mrbowenz]

I recieved the 0-60 regulator in the mail today and tried it on my Brutus, worked like a charm. Just make sure you turn the valve on the regulator down when you first light the burner or you will burn off your retinas...

Those variable regulators are just the fix for most jet burner issues, try runing all your burners at once, I'll bet you'll be even happier you bought it :fro:

 

[hooks]

I did run all of them at once, they just are the shiznit now... thanks again..WOOO HOOOO...

 

[Brewme]

FYI, if you order through topfoodservice.com, they do have the L.P AND NG burners. If you call them and tell them you want the asianfoodservice price (can't order directly), they will give you that lower price.

Also a question... My local propane guy says that I will freeze up my tank if I run in for 60+ minutes at a time. I would like to use one 7 lbs tank, but he recommended two (one for each of my burners). Does one tank work?

 

[hooks]

Also a question... My local propane guy says that I will freeze up my tank if I run in for 60+ minutes at a time. I would like to use one 7 lbs tank, but he recommended two (one for each of my burners). Does one tank work?

I have only run one tank and 2 burners, at the most, at one time. I have run all 3 burners at once with one tank for testing but, the need hasn't arose to run 3 for brewing. You can run at full wide open and really who would want to for any length of time.. but yes to answer your question, one tank works. I boiled 90 minutes last week and it worked fine. You will find that once you have a boil going it doesn't take much heat/propane/burner to keep the boil going. To be accurate we need to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges... I'm using a 20# tank...what set up do you have?... I have a Brutus with a gas beam..check out my brutus rig photo's at the link below.

 

[Brewme]

I am thinking of building this type of system: alenuts.com - Home of Brutus "Ten"

Unless someone can talk me out of it.

I have another question though...you you just hook up the variable pressure regulator hose to the burner or do you need something to mix in air before the burner?

 

[Bobby_M]

The air intakes are at the base of each copper tip so gas only goes into the cast ring.

 

[Brewme]

Perfect. That is what I thought, but my local propane guy thought different...scary. Lastly, how does the safety shut-off valve work? Most people use these to save their lives?

 

[Bobby_M]

Safety is for girls.

 

[mrbowenz]

Safety is for girls.

I Absolutly agree with Bobby !, you aren't makin popcorn in the microwave !

 

[Sawdustguy]

Please do yourself a favor and get an 0-30 psi or a 0-60 psi pressure regulator, they work the bomb on these jet type burners and probably well on all others . Get the right flame every time..

This IS the solution, take my word for it , this WILL solve your flame problems , no plugging, no guess work, your valves open or close ...period, your pilot depends on gas to stay lit, your burners need gas, regulate from the tank, everything else will take care of itself. Don't over think this concept, high pressure or low pressure, it doesn't matter. Just dial in what you need

This is horrible advice. The original poster is using a VR8304 Honeywell gas valve. It is rated for not more than 0.5 psig. Just for ****z and giggles I called Honeywell and the technician said if you put even 1 psig of pressure through the valve you risk damage.

 

[mrbowenz]

This is horrible advice. The original poster is using a VR8304 Honeywell gas valve. It is rated for not more than 0.5 psig. Just for ****z and giggles I called Honeywell and the technician said if you put even 1 psig of pressure through the valve you risk damage.

Forgive me, I was addessing Mr. hooks and not the OP as the thread advanced, in conjunction with ASCO type valves using Jet style burners.

What LP gas regulator delivers .5 lbs psig then , the low pressure regulator on the primary side of the HoneyWell gas valve, what pressure is delivered from the 20LP ? well that depends .....anywhere from 6psig to 200psig .

Perhaps the OP will comment on his setup and results

 

[msheraw]

This all a very easy fix, I should have posted this solution a while back, people plugging up burners , switching from high pressure to low pressure etc.

Please do yourself a favor and get an 0-30 psi or a 0-60 psi pressure regulator, they work the bomb on these jet type burners and probably well on all others . Get the right flame every time..

Propane Regulator for Propane Gas Regulation

I am using this regulator with the 23 tip jet burner and the thing is insane. I barely crack the tank and it seems to be on or off and that is it. No variable control. The burners are set up for propane but I don't understand how these are controllable.

I almost worried to step away from it to do the normal brewing stuff.

HELP!!

 

[freddyb]

I am using this regulator with the 23 tip jet burner and the thing is insane.

Agreed! I did a test run with propane on the 23-tip yesterday and it was very intense. I'm running this with a 0-30psi regulator so there was some level of adjustability, but I'm still going to reduce the number of tips to see what I get. I have two of these burners so I'm going to play around with the configurations until I find what I'm looking for.

I plugged some (eight) of the tips around the perimeter of the second burner so that I can reduce the overall output. Tried to keep it arranged so that at least two tips always point towards each other. Didn't have a chance to test it yet but I'm brewing this weekend so we'll see how it goes.

My goal is to set up my HLT burner as the FLAMES OF HELL, and the BK burner as a more moderate heat source.

 

[Catt22]

I am using this regulator with the 23 tip jet burner and the thing is insane. I barely crack the tank and it seems to be on or off and that is it. No variable control. The burners are set up for propane but I don't understand how these are controllable.

I almost worried to step away from it to do the normal brewing stuff.

HELP!!

Therein lies the problem with these multi-jet burners. There is no way to adjust the fuel/air mixture. Each individual brass jet has it's own fixed opening air intakes. These burners are intended to be operated either wide open or off. They will burn dirty at low levels due to insufficient combustion air. This yellow flame condition also produces a lot of carbon monoxide. I'd never buy one.

 

[msheraw]

Therein lies the problem with these multi-jet burners. There is no way to adjust the fuel/air mixture. Each individual brass jet has it's own fixed opening air intakes. These burners are intended to be operated either wide open or off. They will burn dirty at low levels due to insufficient combustion air. This yellow flame condition also produces a lot of carbon monoxide. I'd never buy one.

I am only using them with the HLT and I called the company that sent them to me and they said that they might have sent me the natural gas ones accidentally.

Check out my blog and you can see just how they are behaving?

Homebrew Project

 

[msheraw]

An infinitely adjustable regulator may be able to allow you to set just what you need! No more no less...
QUOTE]

This IS the solution, take my word for it , this WILL solve your flame problems , no plugging, no guess work, your valves open or close ...period, your pilot depends on gas to stay lit, your burners need gas, regulate from the tank, everything else will take care of itself. Don't over think this concept, high pressure or low pressure, it doesn't matter. Just dial in what you need

Mr. Bowenz, you seem to be knowledgeable about these burners.

Check out my blog to see what I am saying when I said even with the 0-30 regulator the flame seems to be huge or off.

I called the company that I purchased them from and they said they may have accidentally sent me the NG not propane burners. But the regulator should still have some control? If you unscrew the regulator knob the entire way out and put it back in would that affect anything?

How do I tell if the burner nozzles are for propane or NG?

Check out the blog. This is with the flame turned down.

Homebrew Project


Let me know what your advice is??

 

[babalu87]

Therein lies the problem with these multi-jet burners. There is no way to adjust the fuel/air mixture. Each individual brass jet has it's own fixed opening air intakes. These burners are intended to be operated either wide open or off. They will burn dirty at low levels due to insufficient combustion air. This yellow flame condition also produces a lot of carbon monoxide. I'd never buy one.

I have a gas valve (red handle on brass at LowesHomeDepot)

Fully adjustable
Having the wrong burner (NG/Hi pressure propane/ LP) will kill you, must have the correct burner.

The brass tips are diurnal so they must be removed in pairs (see below)

 

[Bobby_M]

I'd love to see a video of someone with these burners actually achieving two different levels of flame intensity on these without compromising the burn quality. I'm not calling anyone a liar, but Catt22's post is pretty much what I observe.

 

[Catt22]

I'd love to see a video of someone with these burners actually achieving two different levels of flame intensity on these without compromising the burn quality. I'm not calling anyone a liar, but Catt22's post is pretty much what I observe.

These multi jet wok burners are visually very impressive to look at and they do put out a huge amount of heat when burning properly, but I have a friend putting together a Brutus 15 system who is having a lot of trouble with them.

IMO, they are marginally suitable for the BK and HLT, but not so good with a direct fired mash tun. The mash tun burner typically should be capable of burning cleanly at a low to very low flame level. I haven't seen that these burners can do that. A low pressure ring type burner is perfect for this application. It's almost the same with the banjo and hurricane burners. While these burn cleanly at any flame level, even at their lowest settings they are too hot for use on a MT.

This whole phenomenon with the multi-jet burners never ceases to amaze me. For some strange reason those who bought them prefer to modify them by plugging jets and such in the elusive pursuit of a clean burn at less than full throttle. Sometimes it's better to cut your losses and choose a different path. There seems to be a pattern with some of this stuff. Reminds me of the grain mill endorsements. It's extremely rare to hear anyone provide a negative report on their burner or mill. The truth is out there!

 

[Cape Brewing]

Therein lies the problem with these multi-jet burners. There is no way to adjust the fuel/air mixture. Each individual brass jet has it's own fixed opening air intakes. These burners are intended to be operated either wide open or off. They will burn dirty at low levels due to insufficient combustion air. This yellow flame condition also produces a lot of carbon monoxide. I'd never buy one.

I have two 32-tips and fire them through two PID controlled Honeywell nat. gas valves and you're right... they do burn dirty.

But... they toss out a ton of heat and are easily adjustable by using just simply adjusting my valves.

I have the ease of a quick disconnect so I can just plug my rig into the wall in my garage. I'll never run out of gas. I toss a SH!TLOAD of heat onto my HLT and BK (I have a herms so I don't direct heat my MT) so I can get hard rolling boils for 20 gallons very quickly and I can step up 20 gallons of water in my HLT in minutes, I have total adjustability... and if that means I get a little yellow flame and some soot on my pots.... I'll live with that.

What exactly is the downside?? I'm not burning my natural gas 100% efficiently??

 

[Catt22]

Do they always ignite properly from the pilot?

Do they put out excessive amounts of carbon monoxide?

In your case, you seem to have found a way to make them work for you, so I guess there is no down side.

My main issue is trying to use them for a direct fired MT. You have a HERMS, so obviously this doesn't apply.

I'm jealous of you natural gas guys. I'd switch in a heartbeat if I could.

The 23-jet burners do put out a butt load of heat. Actually too much for my preference even at moderate flame levels. They are furiously hot!

I will say one other thing about these burners. They do have a lot of extremely loyal followers.

 

[Cape Brewing]

yup... fire from the pilot perfectly every time. I plug into the wall, set the pilots and walk away and then every time they fire on and then turn off it is from the PID's. The only thing I'll do is adjust the flame a bit here or there because for some reason some day the flame is a bit higher than other days.... my guess it is just slight variations in the pressure coming into the house.

I have no idea if they put out excessive carbon monoxide... I don't see how they could. They either burn the gas completely and create CO or they don't. I don't see how they create MORE CO simply due to their design but I could be way off.

My rig is in the garage and I brew with the garage door wide open in the summer and half open in the winter and it hasn't been a problem.

My only complaint is that they don't burn 100% clean... like was posted before. I DO get more yellow then I would like but also like I was saying, I'll trade that for the BTU's any day of the week.... but again... for a HLT and BK.

 

[Bobby_M]

Even when mine are burning pretty clean (which takes playing with the valve and sometimes blowing the pillow of gasses away from the flames), some of the tips blow out. I've got 8 W.C. pressure but dialing it down with a regulator doesn't seem to do anything differently than the ball valve. In the end, they make heat. Sometimes I have to scrub the bottoms of the pots, sometimes not. I currently run about 6 tips on the MLT. That allows me to run the valve full open and the output wort from recirculation is not getting overheated.

I fully accept the fact that my supply might be too flow restrictive to run these.

 

[Catt22]

I have no idea if they put out excessive carbon monoxide... I don't see how they could. They either burn the gas completely and create CO or they don't. I don't see how they create MORE CO simply due to their design but I could be way off.

Actually, it's the other way around. Incomplete combustion (ie. dirty burn) produces the most CO, not when the gas burns completely, although I think there is some minor amount of CO produced no matter what. They create more CO and burn dirty because there is no way to adjust the air/fuel ratio to accommodate low level flame settings.

My friend is having problems getting his to ignite automatically when gas valve kicks on.

 

[ClaudiusB]

Catt2 wrote: Therein lies the problem with these multi-jet burners. There is no way to adjust the fuel/air mixture. Each individual brass jet has it's own fixed opening air intakes. These burners are intended to be operated either wide open or off.

My setup has two low pressure propane jet burners for the mash/lauter tuns and two ring burners.
10 jets for the 50l mash/lauter tun and a 23 jet for the 200 l mash/lauter tun.
Both burners run wide open or off controlled by my program.
No flame or starting problem.
To guaranty constant propane flow, each burner has his own 0.5 PSI regulator supplied by the high tank pressure.
All valves internal regulators are tuned for each burner.
In the future all noisy jet burners will be replaced with no noise ring burners.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB

 

[mrbowenz]

Mr. Bowenz, you seem to be knowledgeable about these burners.

Check out my blog to see what I am saying when I said even with the 0-30 regulator the flame seems to be huge or off.

I called the company that I purchased them from and they said they may have accidentally sent me the NG not propane burners. But the regulator should still have some control? If you unscrew the regulator knob the entire way out and put it back in would that affect anything?

How do I tell if the burner nozzles are for propane or NG?

Check out the blog. This is with the flame turned down.

Homebrew Project


Let me know what your advice is??

I will try to put together a short video on the adjustability of the burners on my brewery, from your blog ( which is great BTW) it looks like those beasts need to be tamed. I will say this... It is very difficult to control the flow of gas( either NG or LP ) with a ball valve, those red handle shut off valves are for on or off operation only, the same goes with ASCO type motorized valves too, open or closed only. The flow of gas on my system works like this >

Tank( LP ) > 0-30 psi regulator> hose> 1/2" BIP> tee> 2 feeds > both have ball valve emergency shutoff> pilot, manually light ...feed> red hat> 23 tip burner. both emergency ball valves are fully open.

 

[mrbowenz]

Here's a video, sorry I shot this myself to show the adjustable possibilities of these 23 jet burners :

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVW3wJh6aWI]YouTube - P1000389[/ame]

 

[mrbowenz]

Bump....

Did this silly video help anyone out with the benefits of a variable pressure regulator ?

 

[Catt22]

The variable pressure regulator seems to somewhat mitigate the problem, but I'm still less than impressed with these burners.

 

[Bobby_M]

I have tried running my NG through an adjustable regulator but it still acted as if I were turning a ball valve. Granted, I think I'm running through too long of a 1/2" run (something like 30'). I think I might have a flow/volume issue. In other words, in order to get the flow I need, I have to leave the pressure cranked at 8 W.C. I should wheel the rig to the backyard because I have a tap off a 3/4" gas line in the basement and I can experiment without that flow restriction. I still don't know what I'd do with that data because I have more and more of a fascination for an all electric brewery.