21% All grain brew.

[MattHollingsworth]

I guess a lot of unfermentable happened after the 9 1/2h boil. I have dumped more beano and the wlp99 this morning but didn't check gravity.
Wish i wasn't working this week end to check the hardware store for it.
Thanks Matt.

Best of luck.

My approach to this whole thing is to eventually work my way up in strength, just for kicks. I've done a TON of beers in the 10-12% range, then this one where I was aiming for 15% but got closer to 16%. That was for my 15 year brewing anniversary. I figure sometime maybe in a year or so I'll aim a bit higher and gradually work my way upwards. I think it's good to do that way as you learn a lot about the super high gravity brewing process, what works, what doesn't for technique and recipe, etc etc etc and it can lead to a beer that is both strong and drinkable rather than just a very strong beer that tastes like crap.

Anyway, let us know how it works out.

 

[Akavango]

I have done the other method to built up a beer after you brew it by adding sugar. I have a dogfishead 120 ipa in the primary. I think that in the future with the set up I have this will be the way to go. I have done my share of strong beers myself. So far the strongest I bottle is at 13.3%. I aged it for 2 months in primary then another 2 months in the secondary with american oak. This is the second time I made it and it turned out even better the second time. That beer is a real jewel.

I thank you for taking the time to offer some advice.
Btw with the wlp 99 the beer is bubbling vigoursly at the moment. I will aerate it again tomorrow and add some more nutrient and possibly some beano.
I keep updating this thread. Even if the beer end up a failure I will have learned plenty in the process.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

With your system? Is it small?

It results in lower efficiency, but you could always do a Double Double. In case you haven't heard of it, you make your recipe, and divide it in half. Mash in as normal. Do your first runoff fast as you don't care if it's clear. Clean the mash tun and add your other half of grain, then add that wort back in for a second mash using wort instead of water.

My usual beers have an efficiency of ~74% or something. I did one Double Double almost a year ago and it was more like ~60%, but then I wasn't aiming as high as you did here. My result was 1.111 which is around what I was aiming for.

Anyway, it requires less mash tun space since you're dividing the mash in half.

If I were you, if the strongest you made before this was 13.3% or whatever, I'd aim for 16% or so, then 18 or 19% and so on. You learn at each step and figure out what techniques work. That's my 2 cents of nonsense, anyway.

 

[Akavango]

With your system? Is it small?

It results in lower efficiency, but you could always do a Double Double. In case you haven't heard of it, you make your recipe, and divide it in half. Mash in as normal. Do your first runoff fast as you don't care if it's clear. Clean the mash tun and add your other half of grain, then add that wort back in for a second mash using wort instead of water.

My system is on small side. I have a huge mash tun about 100l but my kettle is only about 33l. That is all i can have in my small apartment.

But I really like the idea of the double double. Will put it to practice soon.

Bear in mind that I only have brewed for a year and recently felt confident enough to experiment. Initially I made a lot of clones based on recipes found on this forum or somewhere else.
But lately I have been making my own recipes, the 13.3% was supposed to be a 11% but somehow it went higher. I'm so looking forward to this coming year as I will experiment as much as I can with procedure and ingredients.

 

[jeepinjeepin]

Why all the beano? It won't break down the unfermentables created during the long boil will it?

 

[Akavango]

That was the reasonning but the reality seems to be different.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

Only a year? I'd say not to rush. If you wanna make super high gravity beers, take your time and work your way up. You'll learn along the way. And, with brewing, patience is a good skill to learn. ;-)

 

[Akavango]

In the warmer months I have at all times seven buckets fermenting. That gives me a little room for experimentation while I enjoy the other delicious brew I made already. The reason I have so many is that patience isn't my forte even tough it has improved in the last year. But with such a yield I have always something new to taste and enjoy.

The beer is slowly going down in Gravity. I have added another kg of sugar and aerated more. The gravity is down to 1066. Way too high still but the wlp 99 is still working nicely. Time will tell how low it will go down.

 

[Akavango]

Checked the gravity again this morning. It is down to 1062. I doubt it will go much lower. I have now added 3 kg of sugar and I think that the gravity is only falling because of the alcohol formed by the sugar. So maybe if I add some more sugar I can dilute it some more but surely not to an level low enough, let's say around 1020-1025. At least the yeast is still working, but just not burning through the unfermentables. Really undecided what to do with it. The beer is very sweet Porto wine like. Barely a touch of Hops despite the 10.5 oz of high alpha hops I added during the final stage of the boil.
The ABV is currently at 15%.

 

[Bradinator]

I wonder if you could mask the sweetness via dry hopping? I know you won't get any of the acids that add bitterness, but maybe the floral overtones from the hops could detract from the cloying sweetness of it? I guess with nearly 11oz of hops already added and boiled for several hours I don't know how keen you would be on spending more money on this project...

 

[Akavango]

At this point a few more of hops in dry hoping won't hurt more. I intend to keep is aging it at least 2 months in the primary. I was intending to dry hop anyway or add some oak, maybe both. I already gave up on it being a great beer but maybe time will change that. As I said this is an experiment and experiment do go wrong from time to time. As long as I get some lessons from it then it will have been worthwhile.

 

[day_trippr]

62 points in a glass seems like it would be like drinking beer flavored cough syrup. And not in a good way

I'd go nuclear and hit it with Beano...

Cheers!

 

[Akavango]

This morning the krauzen had finally fallen. Didn't have the time to do a gravity reading but I doubt it was much lower than yesterday. Since I have no choice I dumped a bunch of beano and fairly quickly the krauzen reappeared. It may just be the reaction of the beano. I'll see it tonight.

 

[Akavango]

Well back from work and the krauzen is back about half an inch of it and bubbles every few seconds. Will test the gravity tomorrow.

 

[Akavango]

I'm happy to report thta tthe massive beano drop didn't affect the taste of the beer. Unfortunately it did very little to bring the gravity down. I did add another kg of sugar ( that is 5 by now for an OG of 1210. The FG is down to 1058, still very high. The ABV is about 19% but you can barely tell there is alcohol in this beer, the sweetness overcome the alcohol taste. In comparison, my dfh 120 clone has a 19.5 abv but not as sweet has a much prounounced alcohol taste t it

I frankly doubth that it will go down much lower and I'm affraid it is too late to try to break the sugar with a lees stirer. Even tough at his point I don't much left to loose on this one

The hope that adding sugar will help to dilute the beer with the extra alcohol does not have a profound effect.

Anyway it is all in good fun, can't win them all.

 

[doctorRobert]

I think what might screw you up some is not the gravity points but rather that you will already have alcohol in the beer. You are asking the yeast to ferment a 1.086 beer that is already 6-8 % alcohol. Definetly not the best conditions for healthy yeast reproduction.

It could work if you add aerate again, the whole batch. Keep aerating until you near your final OG. o2 is good until the yeast are done.

 

[JollyIsTheRoger]

It could work if you add aerate again, the whole batch. Keep aerating until you near your final OG. o2 is good until the yeast are done.

But if it stalls out now he would just end up oxidizing it and it would taste awful. He can just let it go and hope it goes down a bit over the next few Weeks/months its in the primary. If not aging will help blend the flavors in a beer that big

 

[jeepinjeepin]

I fear the unfermentables are to blame and not high alcohol or lazy yeast. The only way to save this one is to brew a 100% pilsner or pale base that will ferment out to 1.004-1.008 to blend it with.

 

[Akavango]

I fear the unfermentables are to blame and not high alcohol or lazy yeast. The only way to save this one is to brew a 100% pilsner or pale base that will ferment out to 1.004-1.008 to blend it with.

No the yeast is still working fine because it has absorbed the all the sugar i have thrown that it. I like that idea. Would you just add some boiled wort or would you brew a full beer with hops?

What kind of OG would you shoot for?

 

[Akavango]

But if it stalls out now he would just end up oxidizing it and it would taste awful. He can just let it go and hope it goes down a bit over the next few Weeks/months its in the primary. If not aging will help blend the flavors in a beer that big

I fear to oxidize it as well so I have taken aerating out of the equation as of now.

 

[jeepinjeepin]

No the yeast is still working fine because it has absorbed the all the sugar i have thrown that it. I like that idea. Would you just add some boiled wort or would you brew a full beer with hops?

What kind of OG would you shoot for?

I'd brew a whole new beer with the same hops that you used in the monster. Probably in the 1.050-1.060 range. Use that to blend after fermentation finishes.

 

[inhousebrew]

13% crystal malts is way too high IMO for a beer like this. They would add too many unfermentables if you are wishing to hit that 21% mark.

Good luck though.

 

[Akavango]

In the end I went with marris otter only.
So there are no crystal malt in it.

 

[Akavango]

I'd brew a whole new beer with the same hops that you used in the monster. Probably in the 1.050-1.060 range. Use that to blend after fermentation finishes.

I have run the numbers. If I blend my beer with another one of the same volume but with an FG of 1.006. The combine FG would be 1.032. Still high but a lot more drinkable.

I'll think about it but it is tempting.

 

[jeepinjeepin]

I have run the numbers. If I blend my beer with another one of the same volume but with an FG of 1.006. The combine FG would be 1.032. Still high but a lot more drinkable.

I'll think about it but it is tempting.

blend a smaller volume of the high gravity.

 

[Akavango]

I'll play with the numbers. Just because I will bottle some of the unblended one and taste in a year. Who knows? It might turn good.

 

[JollyIsTheRoger]

Blending will reduce the abv though so make sure you keep a few bottles worth straight big beer

 

[Akavango]

Blending will reduce the abv though so make sure you keep a few bottles worth straight big beer

Oh don't worry about that.

 

[Akavango]

For some reason there is suddenly plenty of activity in the airlock. From virtually nothing to a bunch of bubbles every couple seconds. The krauzen had completely fallen but then I added a nuclear dose of beano. A krauzen reappear and it now seems to have some effect. Will check gravity soon.

I will make the beer to blend it with in the next couple weeks. I have to free some fermentation buckets, but I'm running out of bottles and can't drink fast enough to empty a sufficient amount of them. Time to have a party.

I have gone completely crazy with this hobby. I have about 450 full bottles at the moment and 8 beers in fermentation.

 

[Akavango]

False hope, despite the bubbles in the airlock the gravity is still the same and is not bulging one bit. Oh well.
Must be due to the higher than usual temp in my apartment.