20 lb of sugar and a jar of yeast nutrient

[hammacks]

Today is supposed to be a double batch day. A Belgian Dubbel and BM's Blonde. My LHBS only had Wyeast yeast nutrient in stock. Does anyone know the composition of this nutrient? I was hoping that it was mostly DAP and other trace minerals. I can't find any info.

Here it is: Wyeast Laboratories. Brewer's Choice™ Wyeast Nutrient Blend

I'm thinking the Dubbel will have to wait (but the starter is ready!). What a long drive for nothing.

 

[jjp36]

I made a batch of this today to use in a tripel i'm going to be brewing soon. I was shooting for somewhere around light amber, how close does this look?

Also, it smelled really strongly of ammonia while it was boiling, I'm assuming thats normal and from the yeast nutrient breaking down?

 

[eschatz]

This thread is awesome. This is just the kind of thing that makes this forum amazing! Thanks Rex!

 

[SnickASaurusRex]

Yep that looks like mine did at that color. The ammonia thing goes away. It is volatile so any that did not get consumed in the process, dissipates by the time the syrup is cooled

 

[syd138]

pretty cool

 

[SnickASaurusRex]

Here's a pic of the color stages.

 

[khiddy]

Wow. That's frickin' awesome. Thanks, Rex!

 

[hammacks]

I think I mahogannied mine (shooting for 290). Still good though.

 

[Catfish]

This is a great thread. Thanks for all the time and sugar you put into this.
Has anyone tried double cooking (like sugar #5) the 260˚F or 270˚F sugar? Might be great for those lighter colored Belgians. Also I was wondering how this would go for less refined sugar, especially turbinado.

 

[SnickASaurusRex]

I have tried it with less refined sugars. It works, but you have to watch the higher temps. They tend to smoke and get bitter if they get too hot.

 

[Bokonon]

I made up a double batch of the #5 tonight. I just doubled all the quantities.

Is the additional water additions just supposed to bring it down to around 240 or is the extra volume necessary? It took almost 2 hours for this double batch and if it just has to drop to 240 after the water addition it would cut out some time. The first addition of 2 cups dropped the temp to 225 and the second addition dropped to 230.

With the first addition I just dumped it all in while stirring and didn't even watch the temp, but with the 2nd addition I added the water slowly and watched the temp. At about 1.5 cups of water it was at 240 and then the extra 1/2 cup dropped it to 230

I collected 2 quart jars full. I stuck them on a scale before filling to get accurate weights. 1 jar is 2lbs 8oz and the other that has a bit less in it is at 2lbs 5oz

I reserved a bit of the syrup for a test. In a 1L flask I have 450ml of liquid that is at 14.8brix (1.059) with some WLP530 slurry. I've got it on my stir plate to get it to ferment as quick as possible. As soon as it ferments out I'll check the gravity to see how fermentable the syrup is.

 

[davemb]

Here's a pic of the color stages.

worth a thousand words this one

 

[Bokonon]

I reserved a bit of the syrup for a test. In a 1L flask I have 450ml of liquid that is at 14.8brix (1.059) with some WLP530 slurry. I've got it on my stir plate to get it to ferment as quick as possible. As soon as it ferments out I'll check the gravity to see how fermentable the syrup is.

I checked the gravity today and it hadn't dropped at all. In case the slurry I had sitting around was bad/dead I pitched half a packet of SafAle04 in there. That should be plenty of cells to ferment 450ml of wort. I'll report back in a day or so.

This troubles me a bit though, I just used some of the same syrup in a batch and if it doesn't ferment at all it's not going to be very tasty.

 

[Trencher]

I checked the gravity today and it hadn't dropped at all. In case the slurry I had sitting around was bad/dead I pitched half a packet of SafAle04 in there. That should be plenty of cells to ferment 450ml of wort. I'll report back in a day or so.

This troubles me a bit though, I just used some of the same syrup in a batch and if it doesn't ferment at all it's not going to be very tasty.

Your problem may be that the yeast doesn't have sufficient nutrients, not that the sugar is unfermentable. Barley provides lots of additional minerals that simple sugars don't contain. Try adding some yeast nutrient if you don't see activity soon.

 

[Bokonon]

Your problem may be that the yeast doesn't have sufficient nutrients, not that the sugar is unfermentable. Barley provides lots of additional minerals that simple sugars don't contain. Try adding some yeast nutrient if you don't see activity soon.

Good point. Though how many people make hooch with just sugar water and yeast? I'll add a dash of nutrient later if I don't see anything going on

 

[jjp36]

I'd say its pretty much fully fermentable. I just used 2 pounds of this stuff (mine was somewhere between 270-280) in a tripel that started at 1.085. Its currently in the secondary sitting around 1.007

 

[Bokonon]

Good point. Though how many people make hooch with just sugar water and yeast? I'll add a dash of nutrient later if I don't see anything going on

After checking there definitely is something happening now. Maybe my slurry was dead or I didn't add enough or something. I added about a tablespoon which should have been plenty for 450ml of "wort"

I'll check the gravity tomorrow and report back

 

[Bokonon]

I checked the gravity today and it hadn't dropped at all. In case the slurry I had sitting around was bad/dead I pitched half a packet of SafAle04 in there. That should be plenty of cells to ferment 450ml of wort. I'll report back in a day or so.

After my non start with my WLP530 slurry the SafAle04 seems to have done its job.

450 ml of 1.059 fermented down to 1.011
beersmith says thats 80.5% apparent attenuation



I suspect the yeast is done, but since I don't need my stir plate right away I'll just let it go and see if it goes any further

 

[SnickASaurusRex]

Wow. It is great to see that this thread is still going strong. After I posted it I had a switch in jobs, a couple weddings, a new puppy and generally a lot of life get in my way of brewing. so I have only got to use my syrup in a few test batches. I would be interested in hearing how some of the beers are turning out for you brewers that used it. All my test batches turned out tasty, but they were not what you would call a proper beer.

 

[saq]

SnickASaurusRex
I am watching this thread with great interest as I'm just now finishing Brew Like A Monk and have a Westvleteren 12 Group Brew & Swap going on. One of the key secrets of making this fabled beer is obviously the sugar, how they make it and how much to add.
Have you ever tried any of Dark Candi Syrup Inc's product and done a comparison with your #5 or 300F to see what the flavors are like? The dark/burnt chocolate flavors and color (38 SRM) in Westy12 have to come from the sugar, because without the sugar the recipe is at a mere 5 SRM.
I'm interested in seeing what you think one could do to get the perfect super dark (100 SRM or 120 SRM would help a lot) to get some of the burnt chocolate flavors and the dark color. Maybe a #5 with a 295f step?

 

[SnickASaurusRex]

I have tried there products, but not side by side with mine. I can tell you they are similar, but there are small differences. My syrups have a tartness to them, like caramelized figs and dried fruits. This flavor is similar to some of the nicer single origin dark chocolates that I have tried, but it lacks that quintessential coco flavor.

There is an issue with the Sugar #5 recipe. It is not a problem, rather it is something to keep in mind. Every time you bring the sugar solution up to its top temp its max temp will lower for the next round of cooking. This means that the smoke point will lower each time.

Have you tried my Sugar #5. It is good and it is Belgium-ie. I would suggest trying the syrup as it is cheap to make and it will give you some insight to the process.

I have a Sugar #6 that I want to try, but have not gotten around to. What I want to do is cook it three times. The first time I want to cook it to 300F then render it to a syrup at 240F and let it cool. On the second cooking I want to bring it to 290F, again render to a syrup at 240F and let it cool. Then do it one more time to 280F render to syrup and let cool. I do not know if this will be a success or a big bomb. I plan to try it some time soon. If you have the sugar and time you might try a process like this. It will defiantly be dark and fragrant. This would destroy a lot of the fermentability of the product, but It might also be delicious.

 

[chri5]

I made a batch of the medium amber last night, and have a question about bringing it back up to softball after adding the water. Is it absolutely necessary to bring it back up to softball, or are all of the flavors already there once you've cooled it? I ask because it would make it FAR easier to add to the fermenter/kettle if it were a bit more liquid.

I know it would result in adding additional water to the beer, but I can see a time when that may be acceptable.

 

[juvinious]

I did #5 today, hit all the temps accurately on medium-high heat with my trusty candi thermometer. However, it seemed to have come out like the 270 light amber when I spread it on some wax paper. In the jar it looks like medium amber. I thought this would be more along the lines of a darky syrup 290-300ish. I'll have to give the 300 a go and see if that's better.

 

[SnickASaurusRex]

I don't think that bringing it back to softball is necessary if it is going into the kettle shortly after, but for any kind of storage it would add shelf-life to the product by reducing the water content.

 

[juvinious]

So after being frustrated with the colors and lack of complexity in the flavors that were with the original schedules I created a modified #5 version that proved to give me pretty much what I wanted. This not only gives me the shelf stability of the #5 but also the complexity that I felt was more along the lines a extra dark candi syrup. Be aware that this takes a good chunk of time to do, I think total time I spent working on a batch was 1.5 hours. But you can store without worry of crystalization so make a big batch. I can only assume this is very similar to the "Dark 2 Belgian Candi Syrup" I've seen online. I get a nice mix of roasted oak, dark chocolate, and fruity flavors.

Extra Dark Belgian Syrup:

2 lbs Sugar (beet or cane)
2 cups of water
3 teaspoons of DAP
Bring temperature up to 310F
Add 2 cups of water
Bring temperature up to 290F
Add 1 cup of water (should leave you around 220-230F after mixed)
Bring temperature to 240F
Flameout

Here are some pics:

 

[Mr. Nice Guy]

I made Sam Calagiones A to Z brown ale today with the Deep Amber Syrup. It was easy to make and tasted incredible!

I'll post back when the beer is done.

 

[saq]

Do you guys recommend buying a throwaway pot when making candi syrup like this? Whats your total weight at the end of adding 2lbs of sugar? More or less 2lbs?

 

[KingBrianI]

No need for another pot, it cleans up really easy afterwards. And although I haven't weighed it, it will be more than two pounds, there some water in the final syrup that will add to the weight. It does end up making almost exactly one quart though. I know because I store it in one quart mason jars.

 

[Bokonon]

Do you guys recommend buying a throwaway pot when making candi syrup like this? Whats your total weight at the end of adding 2lbs of sugar? More or less 2lbs?

I made a double batch and split it between two quart jars. The weight of just the syrup was 2.5lbs and 2.3lbs

 

[ThinkinDavid]

Rex,
this is obviously a hit, thanks for introducing the idea. I'm definately going to check out RADICAL BREWING. I'm wondering if you have any other cool beer/brew related reading to suggest. Thanks