2 tier vs 1 tier?

[JUSTINTIMEBREWING]

My setup is a bit different. When I originally built it 15 years ago, everything was very, very, erm, very expensive, so I did a two-tier, but I have my HLT on the top tier and MT and BK on the second tier. I used gravity for HLT and pumped between the MT and BK, then gravity from the BK through the CFC and into my fermenter that sat on the floor. Now that I'm completely redesigning and overhauling my rig, I've opted to keep my setup the same, even though I'm now pumping from my HLT (HLT is electric now, and I recirc the liquor to maintain even temp). Even though the HLT is essentially over head, so what? The HLT is the one kettle that doesn't need to be scrubbed clean after every batch.

I do have a design in my head for a very compact configuration that is nearly at ground level to minmize heavy lifting, but that's more looking forward a few years as I get old and broken down

MrH

I like this idea.

 

[MrH]

I like this idea.

I brewed using this setup for a very long time with one pump. Since you say you're new to AG brewing I think you need to decide what you want out of it. Keep in mind that RIMS, HERMS, and direct fire recirculating systems are nothing more than a means to accurately maintain mash temps. In all of these designs, you NEED the recirculation to even out the temp and clarify your wort. This means you need at least one pump dedicated to recirculation, at least while you're mashing. I used my pump to recirc during the mash, then to push the wort to the kettle during fly sparging. Since I have my HLT above my MT, I could gravity feed my sparge liquor to my MT. By comparing the flow between the two, it was actually pretty simple to match rates. I tried batch sparging once with my setup and had terrible efficiency (like 20 points less than normal). I don't doubt I could have improved that with practice, but with fly sparging I had a very consistent 84% brewhouse efficiency, so I stuck with what worked.

Actually, the only real difference in my setup now is that I've added an electric element to my HLT, and I've opted to use a recirc pump to maintain even temps in that. I will also use that same pump to feed my MT, but mainly because it makes the plumbing simpler.

MrH

 

[JUSTINTIMEBREWING]

I brewed using this setup for a very long time with one pump. Since you say you're new to AG brewing I think you need to decide what you want out of it. Keep in mind that RIMS, HERMS, and direct fire recirculating systems are nothing more than a means to accurately maintain mash temps. In all of these designs, you NEED the recirculation to even out the temp and clarify your wort. This means you need at least one pump dedicated to recirculation, at least while you're mashing. I used my pump to recirc during the mash, then to push the wort to the kettle during fly sparging. Since I have my HLT above my MT, I could gravity feed my sparge liquor to my MT. By comparing the flow between the two, it was actually pretty simple to match rates. I tried batch sparging once with my setup and had terrible efficiency (like 20 points less than normal). I don't doubt I could have improved that with practice, but with fly sparging I had a very consistent 84% brewhouse efficiency, so I stuck with what worked.

Actually, the only real difference in my setup now is that I've added an electric element to my HLT, and I've opted to use a recirc pump to maintain even temps in that. I will also use that same pump to feed my MT, but mainly because it makes the plumbing simpler.

MrH

Good info! this helped a lot thanks. Oh ya and another thing i wanted to ask was how do you tell the efficiency of a mash ive been seeing this everywhere, but have no clue how people come up with these percentages...

 

[arturo7]

Another factor to consider is your cooling method. If you are using a CFC, you would want your BK high enough to allow gravity flow to your fermenter. (maybe I'm just stating the obvious)

 

[ScubaSteve]

I did the opposite of what some have mentioned. One pump. HLT on top left, BK on top right, MLT is on bottom:

Use gravity to drain strike water to MLT. Stir in grain. Use pump to slowly move runnings up to BK. You can batch OR fly sparge this way. Start heating BK as runnings are added. The MLT is your heaviest vessel and will need to be pulled for cleaning. It's easiest and safest if it is low. The BK doesn't need to be watched for boilover if you use fermcap. This worked pretty well for me, and it required one less march pump to fuss with.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Also, take a look in my sig....we're looking at how to make a single vessel system that can do everything a 3-vessel one can.

 

[Bobby_M]

Another factor to consider is your cooling method. If you are using a CFC, you would want your BK high enough to allow gravity flow to your fermenter. (maybe I'm just stating the obvious)

Not if you have a pump.

 

[bendavanza]

I have been using a 3 tier, but now that I have a pump, I can now have a much lower stand but still be able to fly sparge if I wanted to. I plan on lowering the post substantially, and rotating it so the MLT is closer and the HLT is further away, and I'll have the BK closer and lower to the ground as well. I hate having the HLT directly over the BK, it restricts access and sometimes the burner flakes off paint and rust into the BK. I'll also make a shelf for the portable RIMS kit below the MLT, and eventually a splitter for a single propane tank to feed both burners. This means no more stepladders. If the pump died I could still do at least a 5g batch using gravity, and more if I did some work with a bucket. I have to get the welder out to make a mount for a newer burner anyway, at the moment it's just sitting on a pile of pavers.
Before and after (excuse the lazy photoshop using just my trackpad)

 

[arturo7]

Not if you have a pump.

Of course.


Man, sometimes I can really be a knucklehead...

 

[Bobby_M]

I have been using a 3 tier, but now that I have a pump, I can now have a much lower stand but still be able to fly sparge if I wanted to. I plan on lowering the post substantially, and rotating it so the MLT is closer and the HLT is further away, and I'll have the BK closer and lower to the ground as well. I hate having the HLT directly over the BK, it restricts access and sometimes the burner flakes off paint and rust into the BK. I'll also make a shelf for the portable RIMS kit below the MLT, and eventually a splitter for a single propane tank to feed both burners. This means no more stepladders. If the pump died I could still do at least a 5g batch using gravity, and more if I did some work with a bucket. I have to get the welder out to make a mount for a newer burner anyway, at the moment it's just sitting on a pile of pavers.
Before and after (excuse the lazy photoshop using just my trackpad)

Sounds about right to me. I'm still waiting for someone with a brewmagic to figure the same thing out and hack off 14" of the legs.

 

[MrH]

Good info! this helped a lot thanks. Oh ya and another thing i wanted to ask was how do you tell the efficiency of a mash ive been seeing this everywhere, but have no clue how people come up with these percentages...

Braukaiser has a really good article on this. It should tell you everything you ever wanted to know about efficiency

MrH

 

[HomeBrewFoSho]

Sounds about right to me. I'm still waiting for someone with a brewmagic to figure the same thing out and hack off 14" of the legs.

Still need to upgrade my account so I can post pictures but that's pretty much my exact setup. But 3 NG Banjo burners. Up top left to right goes HLT,MT then down to the BK. So the MT can gravity into the BK and I can pump from the HLT to MT if I want to fly sparge. Well even for batch sparging I'm pumping into the MT. The top of my two kegs up top are less than 5 feet high , being 6 feet tall I can very easily look inside them or stir the mash.

 

[JUSTINTIMEBREWING]

I think ive made my decision ive done a little more research... and im gonna go with the one tier. I think... ha

 

[JUSTINTIMEBREWING]

I think this is what I will be building this weekend... and those are the same burners I just ordered yesterday! Any final advice? (oh ya and I'm not gonna have my casters sticking out like that...).

 

[rhutter]

This is what I'm leaning towards as well. My only concern is using a pump for draining my my mash to my BK. I'm worried too much suction might cause channeling. Is this just pish posh in my head?

I'm thinking since the sparging process is slow the pumps won't be running strong enough to form any channels in the grain bed. Pretty much just running enough to pump what drains out should be harmless.