2 infections in a row what am i doing wrong?

[CaveBrewing]

My last 2 batches were both ipas and they both tasted like the same infection. It tastes like medicinal burning rubber smell and taste. The first one tasted infected after fermentation was complete. I really sanitzed well before my next batch and it tasted amazing after fermentation. I was very happy, and then I dry hopped it and one week later I went to rack it to my keg and it had that same infection taste. The beer itself does not look infected nothing weird growing in it. Any advice on what it is and what to do next.

 

[Rhoobarb]

From the BJCP Study Guide (hope this helps):

This is an aroma and taste often compared to Band-aids (tm), medicine chest or disinfectant. Chlorophenols are particularly offensive members of this family with bleach-like flavors in addition to the ones listed above. High levels of phenols are generally produced by bacteria or wild yeast, both of which indicate a sanitation problem. Phenols may also be extracted from grain husks by overcrushing, oversparging or sparging with hot or alkaline water. Chlorinated water or sanitizer residue are possible sources of chlorophenols.

 

[Xpertskir]

What water are you using/do you filter or treat it? Was there visual evidence of infection?

 

[CaveBrewing]

There was no visual infection and i use tap water treated with campden tablet. My most recent batch tasted great after 7 days and then infected after dry hopping was done on day 14.

 

[Xpertskir]

camden tablets...guess its not chlorophenols. There could be lots of things going on in your process, dont assume its infection. Unless your equipment is carrying the infection from batch to batch then your problem likely lies elsewhere, given that its a consistent issue.

 

[CaveBrewing]

Any ideas on where I should start. After the first infection I upped my sanitation. You mentioned it may not be infected so would that mean wild yeast or something else?

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

It's doubtfully wild yeast, but it may be. Chlorophenols are usually water or infection based, more often water though. What is your sanitation regimen? How much chlorine and chloromine are in your tap water? Campden should knock those out, but maybe the amount you're using isn't enough to treat your tap water.

 

[Gameface]

Sounds like my summer beers before I got temp controlled fermentation.

 

[CaveBrewing]

I clean with oxyclean and then soak and spray equipment with onestep. I don't know the levels in my water and haven't been brewing in this city all that long. I have downtown omaha tap water and use 1/4 campden tablet for 7 gallons of water. I had been fermenting in the summer around 75 degrees but my last batch I temp controlled in a fridge at 65.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

I soak and spray equipment with onestep.

I know, I know, OneStep is s'posedly a 'no rinse'..... but..... and try this for yourself, it'll leave a very thin film behind after drying. I've been through this myself, when I got my startup kit, it came with OneStep as a no rinse, all purpose cleaner/sanitizer. I used it as such and most of the time had no problems with any flavor. But, a few batches in I tasted a plastic-y flavor, it tasted like my bucket. I fermented the next batch in glass, paying extra attention to cleaning and sanitizing (with OneStep). Got the flavor again. Thought maybe a low level infection had gotten my equipment, so I replaced all plastic; bungs, airlocks, racking cane and tube, got a new bucket (luckily, I'd recently started and didn't have a ton to replace). Needless to say, got the same thing a couple batches down the road. Did some reading and asking around and decided to start using StarSan (no rinse, acid based sanitizer). Started using the OneStep to clean/soak/scrub and the StarSan to rinse and sanitize. I still do that to this day, although I interchange Oxy Free and OneStep regularly, and I haven't tasted that flavor since.
I don't know exactly what your flavor is, or what's causing it, but the OneStep as a sanitizer comment jumped out at me. Everything else is one par, campden in the water, cleaning and sanitizing is good (OneStep sanitizes well, just needs to be rinsed IME). Something to consider. Good luck.

 

[CaveBrewing]

Thanks for the advice, I think I will try Starsan to see if it makes a difference. The more I think about it I think it may be the tap water. I live on the fifth floor and getting 7 gallons of water from the store to my house is going to be a pain. Can I just use a filter like Britta or should I just go get distilled water every time. I am willing to try anything at this point. If I use distilled water do I need to treat the water with anything before mashing? Thank you for the advice I really appreciate it. I was living in rural Hawaii and we had great tap water so I don't think it was ever an issue, I didn't even use campden tablets there.

 

[cyberwollf]

You could also try a batch with store bought RO water to get rid of that variable.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Thanks for the advice, I think I will try Starsan to see if it makes a difference. The more I think about it I think it may be the tap water. I live on the fifth floor and getting 7 gallons of water from the store to my house is going to be a pain. Can I just use a filter like Britta or should I just go get distilled water every time. I am willing to try anything at this point. If I use distilled water do I need to treat the water with anything before mashing? Thank you for the advice I really appreciate it. I was living in rural Hawaii and we had great tap water so I don't think it was ever an issue, I didn't even use campden tablets there.

Personally, I don't care for the tap water here in Mpls, so I use bottled spring water from the store, or r/o if I'm adding minerals. Mostly bottled spring, though. If you're tap water tastes good, and all you're worried about it chlorine and chloromine, campden tabs should do it. You could also pre boil your brewing water before adding campden to be extra sure.
If you're worried about your water's taste, then you'd either need to buy your brewing water or get a filtration system for the tap.

 

[jeremy0209]

FWIW, I just traced an infection to a dirty spigot in my bottling bucket. In hindsight, the last 10 batches seemed to have a little something wrong with them, with that 'something' getting worse with each successive batch....they were fine at bottling and seemed to develop the problem in the bottle. While I was always taking the spigot out of the bucket and soaking in cleaner and sanitizer, I didn't know that the spigot can be disassembled in to three different pieces. When I got it apart (which took a lot of persuading), I found gunk in between two of the pieces. I've since gone to a two piece spigot that's meant to be taken apart for cleaning.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

FWIW, I just traced an infection to a dirty spigot in my bottling bucket. In hindsight, the last 10 batches seemed to have a little something wrong with them, with that 'something' getting worse with each successive batch....they were fine at bottling and seemed to develop the problem in the bottle. While I was always taking the spigot out of the bucket and soaking in cleaner and sanitizer, I didn't know that the spigot can be disassembled in to three different pieces. When I got it apart (which took a lot of persuading), I found gunk in between two of the pieces. I've since gone to a two piece spigot that's meant to be taken apart for cleaning.

That's a really good point. Another problem spot can be the valve on a bottling wand. Always take that apart to clean and sanitize as well, just be careful not to lose the tiny spring. Infections are rare, but they do happen. Gotta be sure to get every little thing clean and sanitized every time.

 

[Monstar]

Sounds like my summer beers before I got temp controlled fermentation.

Word, me too.

 

[ncbrewer]

I clean with oxyclean and then soak and spray equipment with onestep. I don't know the levels in my water and haven't been brewing in this city all that long. I have downtown omaha tap water and use 1/4 campden tablet for 7 gallons of water. I had been fermenting in the summer around 75 degrees but my last batch I temp controlled in a fridge at 65.

From Palmer's How to Brew, one campden tablet treats 20 gallons, so 1/4 tablet would be good for 5 gallons, not 7. I don't know if that really makes a difference, but I always use at least the recommended amount just to be sure.

 

[FarmerTed]

Any ideas on where I should start. After the first infection I upped my sanitation. You mentioned it may not be infected so would that mean wild yeast or something else?

I doubt it's your water; you've had good brews with it, right? I think you would taste the off-flavors from the chlorination pretty early on; I would expect that the chlorophenols form during the boil, and I think they would also be a minor off-flavor, not a giant burning-tire/bandaid mess.

What kind of hops have you been using for the dry-hop? Was it from the same bag? Perhaps you got a bad bag of hops that are moldy. I was listening to cybi a while ago, and Jamil (and also Jeremy from Lagunitas; it was the Hop Stoopid episode) said that 90% of Columbus hops were pretty skanky and moldy. You weren't using them by any chance, were you?

Personally, I would hit all equipment with a good shot of bleach. I'd fill my fermenter with maybe a cup of bleach and water, and let it sit overnight, and soak all the little parts and whatnot that touch your wort in the bleach (maybe give small parts a 15 minute soak in straight bleach). Then, I'd use starsan on brewday through packaging day on anything that touches the beer.

 

[CaveBrewing]

I keg and I only primary. I have 3 new bucket fermenters. I am starting to think all of my batches have been slightly off since using omaha tap water. I think some of my stronger batches like belgian or german yeast or a porter I did not taste it as much because the other flavors mask the off taste. It is much more noticeable on my ipas. I have noticed the off flavor before I dry hop and I have never used columbus. My last ipa batch was cascade chinook and summit. Which I thought wasamazing after brewing. I got a lot of passion fruit smells. I think I am going to brew it again on Monday. This time with bottled water and starsan.

 

[cswest]

The one time I got an infection I just threw away everything that was plastic that touched the beer after cooling. It sucked but it was better than dumping another batch of beer.

 

[jbsg02]

From Palmer's How to Brew, one campden tablet treats 20 gallons, so 1/4 tablet would be good for 5 gallons, not 7. I don't know if that really makes a difference, but I always use at least the recommended amount just to be sure.

That wouldn't make enough difference to tell, and he recently did a video for northern brewer where he said a little more won't hurt.

 

[CaveBrewing]

Update: I switched to bottled spring water and my first batch turned out great! I do not have any off flavors at all! I am never using tap water again!!!! I am brewing up an IPA right now, it is time to build back up my pipeline. I ended up pouring about 20 gallons down the drain. =( Lesson learned.