1st water chemistry/pH attempt failed. Please help.

[trapae]

My first brew adjusting water chemistry utterly failed.
Short version: inputted everything into Bru’n Water supporters program using distilled water and building up to a yellow dry profile with an estimated mash pH of 5.41. PH turned out to be 5.73 at 10 minutes and 24 minutes.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Here’s the detailed version:

Sparge acidification: I set to distilled water with percent dilution 100%. Set diluted water pH and starting pH of 6.5 as instructed.

Grain bill input: 13 pounds 5.4 ounces row pale (rahr so added 3L as instructions say)=4.8L. Carmel 40L at 9.2 ounces, Cara-pills 9.2 ounces 1.5L. This gave me water ratio of 1.66 with SRM 9 .1 and estimated room temperature mash pH of 5.41 (after water adjustment next).

Water adjustment: Set to distilled water at dilution 100%. I used yellow dry profile and got close with overall finished profile of: calcium=52, magnesium=9, sodium=5, Sulfate=102, chloride=50, bicarbonate=NA.
To get this I added the following to my 6 gallons of mash/strike water: gypsum 2.7g, calcium chloride 1.5g, Epsom salts 2.1g, canning salt 0.3g.
I have a accurate gram measuring scale.

BrewDay:
Calibrated my new Milwaukee ph56 meter 6 hr prior.
Started mash, hit mash temperature of 154°.
Sample from top of mash-10 minutes. Cool to room temperature=5.73!
At this time paper pH strip said around 5 to 5.2.
Second sample after stirring from middle of mash – 24m, RTemp=5.73!
Tested probe on 4.01ph calibrating solution and it is accurate.
PH tested my pre-adjusted distilled water=6.34.
PH tested the Springwater I’ve been using for 10 years=8.11.

Since ph is still technically in range for a drinkable beer, hope it won’t affect it too much.
Funny, I’ve made this beer numerous times and I think it is quite good without any tannins or off-flavors. Looking at the pH of the spring water I used to use, (and the pH strips on previous brews said 5.6 as opposed of 5-5.2 on the current brew) I’m thinking the prior mash PHs were very high.

I have no idea what went wrong. Hoping I’m just missing some small input in Bru’n Water.

A lot of information I know, thanks in advance for any input.

 

[doug293cz]

Have you run stability tests on your pH meter (you said 6 hr between calibration and brew)? Did you check the pH meter against the calibration solutions after either of your mash measurements?

Brew on

 

[Braufessor]

In my personal experience, If I use about 8 grams of minerals per 5 gallons of RO water and a pale grain profile that is around 5 SRM.... I can get down to 5.4 without any acid.

I am brewing a saison right now. 100% RO. basically that yellow dry profile as far as minerals. I add 3 ml lactic acid to 5 gallons of mash water and 1ml to sparge water. This puts me in the 5.30 range or a bit under

I add the minerals to mash and sparge....... So, on my first example, I am using 16 grams to 10 gallons and end up with a pre boil pH of around 5.4

I am adding about 10-12 grams to the saison water, plus a total of 4 ml lactic acid to 10 gallons of water between mash and sparge.....

Your 5.7 does seem a bit on the high side. However, I would be surprised if you would get 5.40 with a pale grain bill and relatively low additions of minerals and no acid addition.

In the end, the #1 thing is that you get consistency from batch to batch. Try the exact same thing next time with 2-3ml of lactic acid and I bet you fall pretty much in line.

 

[trapae]

For probe calibration, I missspoke. I let the probe soak out of the box in the storage solution for four hours as instructed, then I calibrated to 7.01 followed by 4.01 ( Solutions provided by Milwaukee ) while heating my strike water. Then in between my two mash pH measurements, I tested it on the 4.01 solution again and it was right on.

 

[doug293cz]

For probe calibration, I missspoke. I let the probe soak out of the box in the storage solution for four hours as instructed, then I calibrated to 7.01 followed by 4.01 ( Solutions provided by Milwaukee ) while heating my strike water. Then in between my two mash pH measurements, I tested it on the 4.01 solution again and it was right on.

Well, looks like calibration is not an issue.

Brew on

 

[z-bob]

Are you sure you're using distilled water? Not "drinking water" in gallon jugs sold right next to the distilled water? (that has a little potassium bicarbonate or other buffering salts added)

5.73 should work just fine. I'm working on pH now, and my last beer was mashed at about 5.8 and I got very good (almost too good) conversion efficiency. Don't know how it tastes yet, but the beers I made before I got a pH meter and was just guessing came out okay. Make a note of the error, and add about 1 ml of lactic acid or an ounce of acid malt next time and see how much closer you get to the target. (at least that's what I do; AJ or Martin can probably tell you exactly how much acid you need

I wouldn't say you had a failure (that remains to be seen) You had a larger than expected error; that gives you something to work with.

 

[Braufessor]

I use B'run water - bit it is not 100% accurate. It gets you in the ball park generally, but there are many variables that can still throw you off of projected pH.

+1 on "are you sure it was distilled water?" That could make a big difference. Even RO machines that are not routinely maintained can end up giving you something well short of what you thought you were dealing with.

I find my beers that are my lightest and darkest tend to fall farthest away from projected mash pH. The ones somewhere in the middle seem to dial in closest.

On pale beers my actual pH always comes in on the high side.
On my dark beers my actual pH always comes in on the low side.


I have just learned to compensate for "reality" vs. the projections.

 

[trapae]

Yes, positive it was distilled. I will keep Pale a Little high, dark a little low in mind. Just have to keep brewing I guess.