1st post, 1st beer, 1st starter... Starter Calculator Question

[SirMontalbon]

I've finally got all my equipment in order and am ready to brew after a good 3-4 months of research. I will be brewing a pilsner extract kit. Here's my recipe:
******************************************************
Fermentables
6 lb Liquid Malt Extract - Pilsen
1 lb Dry Malt Extract - Pilsen

Steeping Grains
0.5 lb German - Carapils 35
0.5 lb American - Caramel / Crystal 10L

Hops
1.5 oz Saaz Pellet 3.6 Boil 60 min
1.5 oz Saaz Pellet 3.6 Boil 15 min

Yeast
2 viles White Labs Czech Budojovice Lager, Production 6/23/2014

7gal start, 5.5gal end, 60min boil.
DME/LME additions: DME @ 30min, LME @ 10min
******************************************************





I entered my information into the Mr. Malty and the Brewer's Friend Yeast Pitch Rate and Starter Calculators and I am worried about the results. Because of the age of my yeast, Mr. Malty recommends 4 vials of yeast to get the desired final cell count of 372B. But then I played around with the multiple steps in the Brewer's Friend tool and it seems that I can get there with a multi-step starter. Does this sound correct? Here are the numbers:
******************************************************
Starter - Step 1:
-Starting Yeast Count: estimated 80 Billion Cells
-Starter Size: 2L
-Gravity: 1.036
-Aeration: occasional shaking
-DME Required: 7.2 oz, 205.4 g
-Growth Rate: 1.8
-Inoculation Rate: 40.0M cells/mL
-Ending Cell Count: 224 billion cells

Starter - Step 2:
-Starter Size: 2L
-Gravity: 1.036
-Aeration: occasional shaking
-DME Required: 7.2 oz, 205.4 g
-Increase: 0.9
-Inoculation Rate: 112.0M cells/mL
-Ending Cell Count: 434 billion cells

Starter meets desired pitching rate!
******************************************************

So, my big questions are:
1. How do I know when to end the first starter and begin the second one?
2. Am I supposed to decant the wort from the first starter and just pitch the bottom slurry into the second starter?
3. How do I know when the second starter is done?
4. Can anyone give me an estimate on how long it will take to finish both starters if I began today?

Thanks for listening!

 

[jbaysurfer]

I've finally got all my equipment in order and am ready to brew after a good 3-4 months of research. I will be brewing a pilsner extract kit. Here's my recipe:
******************************************************
Fermentables
6 lb Liquid Malt Extract - Pilsen
1 lb Dry Malt Extract - Pilsen

Steeping Grains
0.5 lb German - Carapils 35
0.5 lb American - Caramel / Crystal 10L

Hops
1.5 oz Saaz Pellet 3.6 Boil 60 min
1.5 oz Saaz Pellet 3.6 Boil 15 min

Yeast
2 viles White Labs Czech Budojovice Lager, Production 6/23/2014

7gal start, 5.5gal end, 60min boil.
DME/LME additions: DME @ 30min, LME @ 10min
******************************************************





I entered my information into the Mr. Malty and the Brewer's Friend Yeast Pitch Rate and Starter Calculators and I am worried about the results. Because of the age of my yeast, Mr. Malty recommends 4 vials of yeast to get the desired final cell count of 372B. But then I played around with the multiple steps in the Brewer's Friend tool and it seems that I can get there with a multi-step starter. Does this sound correct? Here are the numbers:
******************************************************
Starter - Step 1:
-Starting Yeast Count: estimated 80 Billion Cells
-Starter Size: 2L
-Gravity: 1.036
-Aeration: occasional shaking
-DME Required: 7.2 oz, 205.4 g
-Growth Rate: 1.8
-Inoculation Rate: 40.0M cells/mL
-Ending Cell Count: 224 billion cells

Starter - Step 2:
-Starter Size: 2L
-Gravity: 1.036
-Aeration: occasional shaking
-DME Required: 7.2 oz, 205.4 g
-Increase: 0.9
-Inoculation Rate: 112.0M cells/mL
-Ending Cell Count: 434 billion cells

Starter meets desired pitching rate!
******************************************************

So, my big questions are:
1. How do I know when to end the first starter and begin the second one?
2. Am I supposed to decant the wort from the first starter and just pitch the bottom slurry into the second starter?
3. How do I know when the second starter is done?
4. Can anyone give me an estimate on how long it will take to finish both starters if I began today?

Thanks for listening!

My general rule of thumb is 36 hours per step unless you're cold crashing in between. For 4L of starter wort, you will want to cold crash at some point, but if you've got 2 2L vessels, just cold crash both of them before pitching into the batch.

You could probably expedite it and go 24 hours per step so long as it's obvious that the first step is productive at that time (sometimes older vials take 24 hours to show any activity in a starter, if that's the case, you'll want to give it more time before stepping up).

At 24 hours per step and a 48 hour cold crash, you're looking at 4 days minimum before pitching, and 5-6 would be more comfortable because the longer you cold crash, the more yeast cells will drop out leaving you only clear starter beer to decant.

 

[losMythos]

I have "grown" literally a spore of yeast into enough to brew 5 gallons of beer. I unfortunately am not a numbers guy. I just put One spore in a test tube with a 1.040 or so wort starting at 50 ml than went up from there 100ml 200ml 400ml etc. You will know when the starter is finished visually. I usually get a small krausen that subsides in about 12-24 hrs. cold crash starter and decant after each one. I let my starters ride for 24 hrs approx. before pitching. so if you started today you could pitch in 48 hrs. This is just what I have done so take with a grain of salt. Good Luck.

 

[Singletrack]

This is a very ambitious first brew. Lager. Stepped starter. I wanted to ease into it, so I tried to make the first one as easy as possible. I still had a few problems and marginal beer. But I had fun! Just keep it fun. Good luck!

 

[jbaysurfer]

I have "grown" literally a spore of yeast into enough to brew 5 gallons of beer. I unfortunately am not a numbers guy. I just put One spore in a test tube with a 1.040 or so wort starting at 50 ml than went up from there 100ml 200ml 400ml etc. You will know when the starter is finished visually. I usually get a small krausen that subsides in about 12-24 hrs. cold crash starter and decant after each one. I let my starters ride for 24 hrs approx. before pitching. so if you started today you could pitch in 48 hrs. This is just what I have done so take with a grain of salt. Good Luck.

Maybe I'm waiting too long on my steps. 12 hours seems like you'd barely have the adaptive phase done, and little of the reproduction. But like I said, maybe I can speed up the process.

 

[SirMontalbon]

Since this is a pilsner, using pilsner yeast, should the starter temperature be closer to the 48deg range that I will be fermenting at, or should I do it room temperature?

And when you guys talk about cold crashing, at what temperature and for how long do you recommend?

This is a very ambitious first brew. Lager. Stepped starter. I wanted to ease into it, so I tried to make the first one as easy as possible. I still had a few problems and marginal beer. But I had fun! Just keep it fun. Good luck!

I agree that this is ambitious, but brewing has been on my bucket list for years, and I want to try and do it right. Also, I enjoy the building of the equipment as well as the textbook (ie-reading and research) side of it all. So I'm already having fun!

 

[Roadie]

This is a very ambitious first brew. Lager. Stepped starter. I wanted to ease into it, so I tried to make the first one as easy as possible. I still had a few problems and marginal beer. But I had fun! Just keep it fun. Good luck!

+1. Pilsner's are not easy to brew because they are so light ANY mistake is going to come out. Plus you have to wait for the beer to lager only to possibly be disappointed by it. Try and enjoy it.