1st kettle sour spoiled?

[ZRedIROC]

So it's the third day in my first kettle sour wondering if I might have picked up some extra bugs. I wouldn't say it has a krausen on top but I also wouldn't say it's free of foam. See the picture and let me know what you think. Starting to boil now and I'll give it a taste in an hour.

Batch detail
60% pilsner 40% white wheat
7 gallons on 1.038 wort
No pre-souring before latco
white labs lacto brevis pitched
held at 90 degrees for three days

I haven't tasted it since yesterday mostly because the DMS is so strong it's hard to judge the sourness (no PH meter)

 

[RPh_Guy]

If you were seeing bubbling, there was some wild yeast fermenting the wort.

 

[Morrey]

So it's the third day in my first kettle sour wondering if I might have picked up some extra bugs. I wouldn't say it has a krausen on top but I also wouldn't say it's free of foam. See the picture and let me know what you think. Starting to boil now and I'll give it a taste in an hour.

Batch detail
60% pilsner 40% white wheat
7 gallons on 1.038 wort
No pre-souring before latco
white labs lacto brevis pitched
held at 90 degrees for three days

I haven't tasted it since yesterday mostly because the DMS is so strong it's hard to judge the sourness (no PH meter)View attachment 581538

When I kettle sour I use a pure lacto strain like L Plantarum, let it sour properly, then boil as normal. Yeast, either wild or intentional, is not a good thing for kettle souring when you plan to boil.

I have never used the product you selected, but the brevis (Brett yeast and lacto blend) may be better suited to pitch and let sour and ferment simultaneously after the boil.

What can happen now to your beer is that it will attenuate on out while it is souring. If you boil after it attenuates, your alcohol evaporates in the boil. If you aren't too far along, take a hydrometer reading and see your SG. The way the wort is bubbling, your SG may already be pretty low.
Going forward, you may want to try L Plantarum lactobacillus to do a kettle sour prior to boiling and then pitching yeast of your choice after the boil.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I assumed the OP pitched WLP672 (L. brevis), which is a "pure" Lacto species, not a blend with Brett. OP said he was already boiling it.

...unfortunately White Labs is notorious for yeast contamination in their bacterial products. Or it could have just been a contamination on his end. Impossible to say.

Agreed, L. plantarum is a clear winner for kettle souring. Love it! I use a Lacto blend.

 

[Morrey]

My bad I was thinking of a different product....you’re right. It does look like it’s been contaminated with yeast no matter if intentional or not.

 

[ZRedIROC]

Yes correct I used 672. I only noticed the slight foam the last 24 hours so if wild I killed it. Seems to taste ok, not sure if it will be sour enough after ferment.

Yeah hindsight being 20/20 I should have gone plantarum. I was worried about it working too fast being my first kettle sour. I will definitely switch for the next one.

 

[RPh_Guy]

It'll probably be fine. RDWHAHB!

 

[cactusgarrett]

Did you take gravity readings during the process? That's a sure-fire way to tell, as bubbles/foam can sometimes be confused as off-gassing (especially due to the heat). If you take a grav reading before and after souring, you'll have a good idea if you've fermented, and how much (if so).

 

[Morrey]

Yes correct I used 672. I only noticed the slight foam the last 24 hours so if wild I killed it. Seems to taste ok, not sure if it will be sour enough after ferment.

Yeah hindsight being 20/20 I should have gone plantarum. I was worried about it working too fast being my first kettle sour. I will definitely switch for the next one.

We all continually are learning no matter if this is your first kettle sour, or your hundredth!

Good thing about a strain like L Plantarum is that it can sour nicely with the wort at room temperature....70's even the 80's is ok, and I average 36 hours from pitch to boil. I use a ph meter, and if you plan on lots of sour brews, you may choose to invest in a way to monitor ph.

As @cactusgarrett said, it makes sense to take a gravity reading before you add lacto to keep tabs on things. I just kegged a Gose with L Plantarum as a kettle souring culture. I read 1.044 when I pitched the lacto, then read 1.041 when I boiled 1.5 days later with a ph of 3.20. The lacto doesn't drop the SG "much", but expect a tiny drop as in my example. Point being, if you see a significant drop of like 20 or more points, you have some sort of yeast issue and you have begun attenuation. If this happens, and you then boil, your alcohol boils out too. The unintentional yeast has eaten most of your sugar at this point so very little remains for the real fermentation effort. I had this happen way back when, and I elected to dump and start over.

 

[ZRedIROC]

Thanks for the tips guys. Unfortunately I didn't take the gravity preboil but after my 90+ boil (mostly due to DMS) I was 10 points above my SG so if it was wild I killed it quick.

If I went plantarum next time that should help with the DMS build up correct? With shorter time to sour I think at least. Also I think I might go 2 row instead of pilsner to reduce the DMS.

If I make a lot more of these might get a meter. But if only once or twice a year I might go with strips and taste

 

[Trillium]

Did you boil the wort for 10 min before cooling it down and pitching the lacto?
This is important for two reasons, it steralizes the wort so no unwanted bacteria is in there. The second it to remove any disolved oxygen in the wort so you establish a positive environment for lacto and discourage other bugs. Covering kettle with plastic wrap and purging with CO2 is also a good idea.

I also adjust my ph to 4.5 and then pitch the lacto. This definitely helps with head retention.

 

[ZRedIROC]

Did you boil the wort for 10 min before cooling it down and pitching the lacto?
This is important for two reasons, it steralizes the wort so no unwanted bacteria is in there. The second it to remove any disolved oxygen in the wort so you establish a positive environment for lacto and discourage other bugs. Covering kettle with plastic wrap and purging with CO2 is also a good idea.

I also adjust my ph to 4.5 and then pitch the lacto. This definitely helps with head retention.

Yeah I boiled first. Didn't want to risk it. I didn't adjust my pH down though. Next time i think i will use a faster lacto strain. This took too many days

 

[terrenum]

I agree with Trillium. You should definitely lower the PH to 4.5 before pitching the Lacto. This will help head retention which is always a challenge with sour beers. Was the beer hopped at all or if you added hops only in the boil?

 

[ZRedIROC]

I agree with Trillium. You should definitely lower the PH to 4.5 before pitching the Lacto. This will help head retention which is always a challenge with sour beers. Was the beer hopped at all or if you added hops only in the boil?

Head retention was ok. I'll try the presouring next time. I hopped the beer during the boil after souring.

 

[MakeDankBeer]

Theres Mine. 1.040 after mash, 1.015 currently. I pitched 2/3 of a good belly carton. Guessing I should just use the straight strain next time.

 

[ZRedIROC]

Heard a lot of hit or miss with good belly

 

[deadwolfbones]

I've used Goodbelly 5+ times and never had an issue. Works like a charm.