1951 hotpoint homebrew fridge

[dmoore714]

This thing is beautiful! Can't wait to see it finished!

 

[PhelanKA7]

Not to rain on your parade but be careful with these old refrigerators. You might have a heart attack when you see your electric bill next month...

(Old refrigerators can run up to 3000 kWh. I barely use that in my whole house in the dead of winter.)

 

[kerber]

Not to rain on your parade but be careful with these old refrigerators. You might have a heart attack when you see your electric bill next month...

(Old refrigerators can run up to 3000 kWh. I barely use that in my whole house in the dead of winter.)

Citation required!

Ask anyone with an old (pre-60's) fridge and you'll find that it's exactly the opposite. Fridges from the 50's and earlier were very energy efficient and will not make much difference in your energy bill. I have no idea where people are getting this BS from, but it's just not true!

To quote myself from another thread earlier this week:

You have no idea how often I have to correct people on that. Inevitably, someone will see a post about my kegerator and feel the need to 'inform' me about the inefficiency of it. One of the first things I did after picking mine up was to connect it to a kill-a-watt. It draws ~170 watts when the compressor is running. There's some more info on here.

 

[Cdburkhart]

Huh, that goes against from what I thought would be drawn.

But out of curiosity, don't older fridges produce/use some pretty nasty chemicals.

I have been thinking about trying to get an older fridge, just cause they look petty cool, but was way because of power use and chemical concerns...

 

[PhelanKA7]

Citation required!:

http://www.energy.ca.gov/appliances/database/historical_excel_files/Refrigeration/

Now you show me yours...

 

[Cdburkhart]

Cool, thanks

 

[kerber]

http://www.energy.ca.gov/appliances/database/historical_excel_files/Refrigeration/

Now you show me yours...

The closest to what we're talking about would be under "NonComm Refrigerators.zip", then Single Door, manual defrost. Those are showing anywhere from 300-550 kWh/year depending on the manufacturer. As is, most of the fridges shown on there are energy-hungry post-50's. They contain features like auto-defrost and anti-sweat heaters that suck up a ton of juice. Pre-60's fridges were way more efficient.

Going by the calculations on rapidtables and my mid-summer run times:

180 watts running
6 min/hr for 1 year = 876hr
W × hr / 1000 = kWh
180 X 876 / 1000 = 157.68 kWh/year
​

158 kWh/year comes out to around $15 per year or me to run it.

 

[kerber]

But out of curiosity, don't older fridges produce/use some pretty nasty chemicals.

They do use ozone-depleting chemicals. By using an old fridge and keeping it out of a dump, you're actually helping to keep those chemicals out of the environment. If you do get a leak in your refrigeration system, you wouldn't be able to just refill it, so you're not really adding to any environmental issue. In that case, you'd probably want to retrofit with a new refrigeration system.

Most of these old fridges are just really well insulated coolers with a small, low-power compressor running on them. Take the time to re-insulate well and it will serve you well.

 

[SteveMillerTime]

Sorry but I must disagree here, the amount of gas in the tank is the same irregardless of temperture, inside or outside the keezer the tank will last the same and carb the same amount of beer at the same carb level of course.

The colder the tank, the less the tank pressure will be, but the amount of gas doesn't change. Sorry again, but I wouldn't want anyone to think that there CO2 will last longer stored outside the fridge. Cheers!

You are correct, you lose pressure not volume when the tank gets cold. However, when you lose that pressure you can no longer push the beer out. By leaving the bottle outside where it can remain at room temperature you'll be able to push more beer.

It all comes down to molecules. Warm/Hot molecules move faster (more pressure) than cold molecules. So in theory, by having a colder tank you are reducing how much beer you can push.

If you want proof, run your tank cold until the gauge says you're low on pressure. Then take it out and leave it to get to room temperature (assuming your temperature is above 50*F) you should see a significant increase in gas pressure next time you turn the tank on.

 

[Cdburkhart]

Oh Boyle's law, you are a cruel mistress...

 

[wilserbrewer]

You are correct, you lose pressure not volume when the tank gets cold. However, when you lose that pressure you can no longer push the beer out. By leaving the bottle outside where it can remain at room temperature you'll be able to push more beer.

It all comes down to molecules. Warm/Hot molecules move faster (more pressure) than cold molecules. So in theory, by having a colder tank you are reducing how much beer you can push.

If you want proof, run your tank cold until the gauge says you're low on pressure. Then take it out and leave it to get to room temperature (assuming your temperature is above 50*F) you should see a significant increase in gas pressure next time you turn the tank on.

Sorry but this is just not true at ALL! Been a while since boyles law, but the amount of co2 in the tank doesn't change cold or warm. Well ok maybe a warm tank would push another pint...Is that your point?

By the time your tank reaches line pressure it is virtually empty...and yes a warm tank would give a few light puffs more.

Tank pressure means very little...the amount or weight of gas in the tank means everything irregardless of temperature.

 

[GTengineer10]

Sorry but this is just not true at ALL! Been a while since boyles law, but the amount of co2 in the tank doesn't change cold or warm. Well ok maybe a warm tank would push another pint...Is that your point?

By the time your tank reaches line pressure it is virtually empty...and yes a warm tank would give a few light puffs more.

Tank pressure means very little...the amount or weight of gas in the tank means everything irregardless of temperature.

I will read your post regardless of your use of the word irregardless.

 

[argyle]

Not to rain on your parade but be careful with these old refrigerators. You might have a heart attack when you see your electric bill next month...

(Old refrigerators can run up to 3000 kWh. I barely use that in my whole house in the dead of winter.)

http://www.energy.ca.gov/appliances/database/historical_excel_files/Refrigeration/

Ok-- Debbie Downer! Wa Wa Wa!

 

[wilserbrewer]

I will read your post regardless of your use of the word irregardless.

Haha...good one, I had no idea there aint no such word...thanks for the tip! But I will stand fast on the fallacy that warm gas is more, more or less...haven't seen anyone building a CO2 tank warmer on the boards to get more mileage out of their co2 tanks....cheers!

 

[savannahbrew]

Haha...good one, I had no idea there aint no such word...thanks for the tip! But I will stand fast on the fallacy that warm gas is more, more or less...haven't seen anyone building a CO2 tank warmer on the boards to get more mileage out of their co2 tanks....cheers!

I am prone to agree with you about this. It's pretty interesting because I can't quite figure it out but I think Im pretty close! It wouldn't be related to Boyle's law but actually Gay-Lussac's Law which relates temperature to pressure. If kept outside of the fridge the pressure would be higher and if the regulator allowed a standard pressure through you would be using less CO2 right? But once inside of the headspace in the actual keg it would be cooled and contract needing more CO2 molecules to pressurize and force the beer out. This would be the same as just having both tanks in the fridge. I think (but am not sure) if you left the CO2 tank outside of the fridge you could get more use but only if the keg was also outside of the fridge. But since Im into drinking cold beer my tanks both stay in the fridge!!! Correct me if Im wrong!

 

[fifthcircle]

If you use every bit of gas out of your CO2 tank, it'll just cost more to fill it up. (if charged per lb of gas)

You will be able to go longer between fills, theoretically, but by how much?

Just get the biggest tank you can, and relax, don't worry, you know the drill