14lbs Pilsner Mash @ 1.020 after 90min

[Dcpcooks]

By my understanding Carapils has no enzymatic content but it has an estimated 70% extract efficiency. The sugars have been converted during the malting process. So it will contribute sugars to the wort. It will offer less sugars than a pilsner malt but only the difference between expected extraction rates. Pilsner malt should convert at 85% or greater and carapils should contribute 70% max so it’s only a fifteen percent difference. We’re seeing >50% less efficiency in this mash. If we were talking about a hypothetical fermentation that stalled at 20% attenuation I could see how carapils confused for pilsner malt could be the cause.

If you got “bad Grain” it would have to have been an unmalted grain for that to be the cause of the low extraction rate. I’m not aware of a good reason for a LHBS to carry unmalted grains in the first place so I’m not sure it is something they would have on hand to have miss packed.

I’m of the opinion that the sugars were not captured for either a mechanical or temperature related mash issue. So the fine mill setting created a massive dough ball that prevented conversion or the enzymes were denatured prior to finishing conversion by a hot mash temp.

I’m interested to see if we can isolate the cause on this one!

 

[lump42]

My thermometer is analog so I doubt that is the case.

Unless your thermometer is the glass alcohol thermometer, it can wonder off of the calibration. The analog dial thermometers are especially prone to being off calibration. Dial thermometers usually have an adjustment screw of some sort on the back. Glass thermometers should still be checked. They won't lose calibration but the scale could be off.

 

[Frank-the-Tank]

My guess is the Pilsner malt was not highly enough modified when it was kilned and cured, so there wasn’t enough enzyme production.
Another possibility is it was above 10% moisture when it was cured. This would destroy the enzymes that are supposed to chew up starches into sugar in the mash.

 

[sborz22]

This is interesting and these posts always seem super relevant to my brews. I just brewed a Berliner Weisse that was 50/50 pilsner and german wheat and my pre boil was also strangely very low. I wonder if it could be an issue with the pilsener malt itself. Is that possible with todays quality controls?

 

[ba-brewer]

I seen posts recently that gelatinization temp can vary year to year but it only seems to be an issue if you mash in mid to low 140s range.

Large amounts of wheat can be a problem if they don't get crushed well due to them being smaller than barley. More of an issue for people that don't have their own mill and rely on the LHBS.

 

[Frank-the-Tank]

This is interesting and these posts always seem super relevant to my brews. I just brewed a Berliner Weisse that was 50/50 pilsner and german wheat and my pre boil was also strangely very low. I wonder if it could be an issue with the pilsener malt itself. Is that possible with todays quality controls?

If the LHBS is pulling and grinding your malt, they could make a mistake and you would never know it.
Better off buying a malt mill and buying malted grain that is whole, bagged, and labeled by the malt company.
That way you know what you have. If the LHBS is taking 50# bags and grinding as people order, someone is going to get stuck with the dust at the end of the bag. Don’t think they would throw it out and throw away profit.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[Lefou]

Decided to grind my own immediately before doing this last brew.
I've typically gotten 68-70% efficiency with a 60 minute mash and calculated for that during subsequent brews.This time was a bit different.
I extended the mash from 60 minutes to 2 hours at 145F-150F, mashed out, and carefully measured salts for water treatment. Efficiency was about 80% this time around and that was pretty surprising.