$12 dry yeast for beer?

[BrewnWKopperKat]

but but but ... even with a starter, the yeast cost would still be more than five times more expensive than US-05 ($12.95 vs $2.49)

The good news is that there are UT videos and/or information sheets from both Fermentis and Lallemand on how to do starters with dry yeast.

Maybe the marketing people have a good understanding of how their product is used.

As for taste experiments, a number of the differences I think I'm seeing (vs US-05, Apex San Diego, BRY-97) are fermentation characteristics. One of characteristics may be due to process changes (I haven't brewed with US-05 for a while).

 

[McMullan]

The good news is that there are UT videos and/or information sheets from both Fermentis and Lallemand on how to do starters with dry yeast.

Do you have links? I’d be interested in what they’re touting.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Lallemand's "make a starter" with Diamond Lager document is over in their "best practices" library. There should be a link to it on the strain's product information page.

The UT videos presentations / chats were from 2021/2022. I don't have specific links, but people would ask about making starters and/or re-using yeast. The answer was "yes, you can" (and in some cases "here's where you can read more about it".

 

[elproducto]

Because White Labs.

The pricing on their new packs is crazy IMHO, especially here in Canada where I'm sure the LHBS pays a premium for shipping.

Lots of other options these days.

 

[IslandLizard]

Lallemand's "make a starter" with Diamond Lager document is over in their "best practices" library. There should be a link to it on the strain's product information page.

Thank you for the reference!

That page/location is not the easiest to find.
Here's the direct link:

https://admin.lallemandbrewing.com/.../10/Propagation-Best-Practice-ENG-digital.pdf

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

From the product information page for Diamond Lager (currently
https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/united-states/products/diamond-lager-yeast ):

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Lutra Kveik was in this ballpark last time I looked for it. You have to wonder why one yeast costs more than another. It's not like they can't grow more. I assume there is a reason.

 

[dmtaylor]

Maybe they're trying to go out of business. I often wonder if the multi-billion dollar company I work for is trying to squeeze as much money as they can out of us for a couple more years before they just shut us down even though under proper management we could remain profitable for another century.

 

[McMullan]

It makes perfect sense, from a perspective of greed and shareholder value at any cost to the customer. Shop around. Adapt. It’s only yeast at the end of the day. They all do more or less the same thing. Ferment sugar to alcohol. Pick one and keep it alive in a jam jar or something. If you brew Saisons, pick a Saison yeast. Lagers, pick a Lager yeast. English ales, pick an English ale yeast. And so on.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

They all do more or less the same thing.

... and perhaps there enough 'something' in the 'more' or the 'less' that makes a specific yeast product more valuable.

But forum wisdom has spoken: it's too expensive.

Shop around. Adapt.

Maybe the discussion on features occur later , maybe here or maybe else where.

 

[McMullan]

... and perhaps there enough 'something' in the 'more' or the 'less' that makes a specific yeast product more valuable.

But forum wisdom has spoken: it's too expensive.


Maybe the discussion on features occur later , maybe here or maybe else where.

They all do more or less the same thing. Ferment sugar to alcohol.

That’s the primary reason why people brew. To make alcoholic beverages. I don’t see myself quitting beer if my favourite yeast strains became less accessible. There are so many alternatives and cheaper strategies. I think some brewers get too wrapped up in a ‘must use this yeast’ mentality. For me, it’s about a hobby not getting exploited by marketing and ‘shareholder value’. A skilled brewer should be able to make baker’s yeast from the local supermarket ferment a nice beer. A characterful English ale yeast as 1-dimensional as an American ale yeast. An American ale yeast as clean as a lager. Ale yeast and lager yeast are a lot more similar than they are different. It’s only beer at the end of the day. If a yeast supplier bumps the price to an unreasonable level (it’s only yeast), I’ll shop around or change my practices. The alternative is to get ripped off.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

forum wisdom has spoken: it's too expensive.

 

[mac_1103]

I've used WLP001 dry recently. I see advantages vs US-05 and BRY-97. But with a starting point of price for the discussion, it seems like the best approach is to save my keystrokes for a future topic.

Assuming there is future topic where personas discuss their actual experiences using various chico strains, I may make some time to include mine.

Or maybe you could start said future topic? Or resurrect a past topic to post your observations? I will never have much interest in paying these prices, but I am always interested in hearing about real world experiences with competing products.

 

[dmtaylor]

... and perhaps there enough 'something' in the 'more' or the 'less' that makes a specific yeast product more valuable.

But forum wisdom has spoken: it's too expensive.


Maybe the discussion on features occur later , maybe here or maybe else where.

Cost comparison has nothing to do with "wisdom" or opinion; it is objective FACT.

Indeed, this apparently isn't the thread to discuss features or advantages, IF there are any. Perhaps you should make a new thread, where it is specifically requested that discussion of cost is strictly verboten.

 

[Yesfan]

forum wisdom has spoken: it's too expensive.

LOL! Okie dokie then. Two questions from me (and no, one of them isn't "what's up with that sarcasm?" )

1) What are the differences you're tasting?
2) In the end, does those differences make the yeast worth double the cost of the competitor?

Count me in as another vote that would like to read your observations/experiences compared to the competition, whether in this thread or you starting a new one.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

1) What are the differences you're tasting?

I'm not at the stage where I'm doing side-by-side taste comparisons.

For the last couple of years, I choose to focus mostly on Lallemand strains. I stopped talking about MJ strains around 2020 (I saw no reason to talk about them when the response was likely "it's just repackaged Fermentis/Lallemand").

I may have a refreshed curiousty about US-05 / S-04 (and some of the newer Fermentis strains) later this fall.

IMO: US-05 is a "get'r done" work horse. I see it as slow and steady, very tolerant to ambient temperature, wort temperature, and temperature flucualation. I have brewed (and may brew again) a lot of enoyable beers with US-05 in a basement with seasonal ambient temperatures (55 to 65F) and "advanced" "swamp cooler" techniques.

• normal strength ale? two weeks fermentation, two weeks bottle conditioning.
• imperial strength ale? add a week to fermentation and a week bottle conditioning
• barley wine? pitch a sachet (or two) and give it time; US-05 is always better with more time

Perhaps, and unfortunately for me in forum discussion, my curiosity recently has been: can I brew faster?

2) In the end, does those differences make the yeast worth double the cost of the competitor?

After a small number of batches with WLP001 (dry) vs my notes from a couple of other chino strains (but not side-by-side comparisons), I think I'm seeing faster starts, faster finishes, easier bottling, and easlier cleanup. For cleanup, visualize rinsing a narrow necked 3 gal plastic carboy with just warm water.

I also made a number of stupidly simple oxygen management focused changes to my brew day (both all-grain and DME+steep).

Maybe it's some combination of changes that I made all at once that are giving me better results.

"In the end", is it worth the cost? Today: Will I spend the time to 'tease out' the important process changes?

 

[Steveruch]

$12 for one pack of dry yeast? Too rich for my blood.
Recently I got 5 packs of nottingham for less than $17.

 

[PashMaddle]

I don’t think I paid $12 for yeast, hops and spices all together to go into my witbier and I thought I was “getting fancy”.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

closing out the original question

If you were in sales, what would you say to a brewer to persuade them to spend more for this yeast compared to all the other dry yeast choices out there.

An introduction to sales and marketing class (do they still teach this in 10th grade US schools?) has a section that covers this:

identify and promote features of the product that are desirable to the prospective customer.

The link in #9 lists a number of those features. There may be other features that are not listed there (perhaps faster fermentation or cleaner flavor vs US-05).

Is anyone trying to market products here? Not me. I won't speak for others.

In the mean time, I'll be polite and continue to not talk about MJ strains ("it's just repackaged _____") or strains over $7.50 (using pricing at the two national suppliers).

 

[dmtaylor]

Not sure there is a reason to be polite. To whom as a person are you trying to be polite? Business is business.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

In sales, being polite leaves open the opportunity for a different discussion at a later time.

There have been topics, in the past, where the relentlessly repeated forum wisdom was simply wrong:

• can't add minerals to extract based wort
• extract is always darker then expected
• can't bottle condition NEIPAs

Evaluation of dry yeast based on price isn't one of those topics.

It's a personal decision.

 

[mac_1103]

In sales, being polite leaves open the opportunity for a different discussion at a later time.

Well sure, but you're not the one trying to sell something.

 

[gewehr43sniper]

I thought the same thing as the OP when I saw that email. Why would I get that when US-05 is probably almost identical and $6 a pack.

 

[mac_1103]

Why would I get that when US-05 is probably almost identical and $6 a pack.

Why would you pay $6 a pack for US-05 when it's widely available for <$3.50?

 

[khannon]

Maybe they could start making the packets smaller for the same price and no one would notice.. Anyone bought an actual half-gallon of ice cream lately?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Sachet sizes: some brands of yeast have been packaged in 6 g (e.g. Muntons) or 10 g (e. g. ...) sachets for a long, long time.

 

[Rish]

making the packets smaller for the same price

 

[Bramling Cross]

The last thing that I want to do is get an LHBS in trouble, so no names, but the last time I was in a shop I noticed a new, regional supplier had suddenly taken up a sizable chunk of their shelf space. It was a quiet day, nobody was behind me in line, so I asked about it at the register and the long-term employee sighed and said, "White Labs has gone bat %*#@ crazy."

That's when the penny dropped: White Labs had about 5% of the available shelf space. A single row of mixed wet yeast, mostly 1056, and a (very full looking) row of the new dried yeast. That's it.

As a guy with thirty years of brewing under my belt, I respect White Labs' sincere and long-established drive to make the finest product imaginable, but I've always resented them for being the company at the vanguard of rising yeast prices. Moreover, once you learn how to use yeast, and learn how resilient they really are, all of White Lab's techno bells and whistles evaporate after the first pitch--and that's assuming FedEx, UPS, and your LHBS actually treat them right.

Yeah, right.

Between the new $15 big pouches, this new line of dry yeast, and their penchant for always having the most milquetoast of the available strains, perhaps this time they've gone too far.

Although, at best, 1 in every 10 dollars I spend on yeast goes to White Labs, I'd hate to see them fail in the homebrew market. Personally, I'm not worried about the company. I gather they're huge in the commercial setting...the whole milquetoast thing being a huge advantage there.

 

[Steveruch]

Sachet sizes: some brands of yeast have been packaged in 6 g (e.g. Muntons) or 10 g (e. g. ...) sachets for a long, long time.

Muntons is perfect for my three gallon batches of bitter and mild.

 

[mashdar]

It would be cool if somebody packed 4x3g in a subdivided sachet. Want to build up from 3g? Easy! Want 12g right now? Easy!