10-30R Dryer Oulet/Spa Panel Question

[chuckjaxfl]

I want to use my pre-90's dryer outlet (3 prong).
I'm convinced to do the GFCI via a spa panel per P-J, like this:

And put a 14-30R in it like this:

The existing outlet is at ground level. I don't want to drag the dryer out to unplug and plug the spa panel in every brewday. Here's the question part.

Is there a reason I couldn't also install a 10-30R, along with the 14-30R, on the side of the spa panel, and just leave the dryer plugged in? Then I could just leave the spa panel up over the dryer "permanently", and have easy access to the 14-30 when I want it.

Of course I understand that I couldn't run the dryer and brew simultaneously.

 

[P-J]

If I understand your plan correctly, It sounds like a really good plan.

i.e. - Existing outlet - Plug to Spa Panel - Spa Panel containing outlet for dryer pre GFCI & and outlet to brewery after GFCI.

I like it.

 

[moparx12]

i don't see a problem with that. whats the worst that could happen the breaker trips?

 

[chuckjaxfl]

If I understand your plan correctly, It sounds like a really good plan.

i.e. - Existing outlet - Plug to Spa Panel - Spa Panel containing outlet for dryer pre GFCI & and outlet to brewery after GFCI.

I like it.

Right, just wire in the 10-30R pre-breaker, the 14-30R after.




ETA: Thanks for the reply P-J. In this thread, and all the others I've read. You, clearly, invest a lot of energy in this forum.

 

[chuckjaxfl]

i don't see a problem with that. whats the worst that could happen the breaker trips?

I guess the worst is that I make the wrong decision, electrocuting myself. Then my fried, smoldering corpse ignites, starting a fire that takes this house, several that surround it, and all of those who inhabit them.

 

[iijakii]

I don't get why you'd need to install both receptacles. Why not just rewire your dryer with a 4-prong cord? Very simple to do, no? Or would that just make the GFCI trip?

 

[iijakii]

Bump - could you answer my question PJ? This is what I was planning on doing. I hadn't even considered the thought that a converted drier might not work with the GFCI though - don't see why it wouldn't.

 

[P-J]

Bump - could you answer my question PJ? This is what I was planning on doing. I hadn't even considered the thought that a converted drier might not work with the GFCI though - don't see why it wouldn't.

I'm not really sure what you are driving at - But: If you are familiar enough with rewiring a dryer to accomodate a 4 prong oulet go for it.
I'll not ever recommend such a thing on this forum (or any other). The challenge is a lot more complex than you could imagine.

Plus, with that plan you would be changing the building wiring.
(Get a permit, do the wiring, have it inspected, + more...)
I'm not in your camp...!

 

[iijakii]

Not changing the building - changing your three-prong drier to use a 4-prong cable. Then you can leave the spa-panel plugged into the wall full time and just plug your dryer into that when not brewing.

 

[P-J]

Try it. You will very shortly find that you are way over your head.

 

[iijakii]

I think we're having a misunderstanding. Changing a clothes dryer's power cord is not complicated at all. I don't know how else to explain what I'm trying to say. I'm not talking about touching the house's wiring at all.

 

[Banjoman002]

Try this

http://electrical.about.com/od/appliances/ss/4wireto3wiredryercord.htm

 

[chuckjaxfl]

I think we're having a misunderstanding. Changing a clothes dryer's power cord is not complicated at all. I don't know how else to explain what I'm trying to say. I'm not talking about touching the house's wiring at all.

I get what you're saying. He's not talking about re-engineering how the dryer works, P-J. He's talking about doing a simple cord swap.

I've done the swap before on other dryers when moving from one apartment to another. I'm just not confident that, once the cord is swapped, that there is not anywhere inside the dryer that the neutral & ground are merged back again (tripping the GFCI, as you suggest iijakii).

I figure just adding a 10-30 pre-GFCI would be a more 'certain' fix. I don't want to buy a 14-30 cord for the dryer, swap it, have it trip the GFCI, swap it back, and then move on to the extra outlet fix. I just want to go there first.

 

[petey_c]

I suppose you could change your three wire plug to a four wire plug (easier and safer than rewiring your dryer). Since there's no ground wire in the dryer cord, you'd have a blade that isn't doing anything. Maybe this has been answered already... P-J, since the spa panel is a sub panel, shouldn't the neutral and ground be separated and the metal box be bonded to the ground bar (and the neutral should not be)?

 

[P-J]

I suppose you could change your three wire plug to a four wire plug (easier and safer than rewiring your dryer). Since there's no ground wire in the dryer cord, you'd have a blade that isn't doing anything. Maybe this has been answered already... P-J, since the spa panel is a sub panel, shouldn't the neutral and ground be separated and the metal box be bonded to the ground bar (and the neutral should not be)?

The Spa Panel contains the GFCI breaker. With the plan that you propose, the GFCI breaker will trip as soon as the dryer is powered on. Please keep in mind that a 3 wire dryer outlet (pre 1994 NEC) is 240V and a neutral. The neutral is bonded to the dryer frame as well to provide equipment ground. There are devices inside the dryer that require 120V power so a neutral is required for proper operation. Also the dryer frame would still be bonded to the neutral and will have a potential slightly higher than earth ground. This potential difference "might" be enough to trip the GFCI as there could be earth ground available to the dryer frame. (The inbound water supply)

 

[petey_c]

Okay, with a little more careful reading, I see the error of my ways. Three wires to old style dryer outlet (10-30R) from the panel. Outlet is at ground level. Mount spa panel above dryer with old school outlet for dryer and 4 wire outlet for brewing. No need to rewire anything. Just need to make a decision about how to take power from the original outlet location; hard wired or cord and plug. See what getting some sleep does for you....
chuckjaxfl, "I guess the worst is that I make the wrong decision, electrocuting myself. Then my fried, smoldering corpse ignites, starting a fire that takes this house, several that surround it, and all of those who inhabit them." Pretty funny.

 

[chuckjaxfl]

DSC_3390 by ChuckJaxFL, on Flickr


DSC_3392 by ChuckJaxFL, on Flickr


DSC_3393 by ChuckJaxFL, on Flickr


Done. The second breaker & outlet added all of $15 to the cost. Well worth it for the convenience of not having to climb around behind the dryer.

Oh... and I decided to go with the L14-30 instead of the 14-30. I was looking for 10/4 extension cords. It appears that here in hurricane country (generator), the L type are far more common.