1-stage fermenting in cornies

[oooFishy]

First off, I love my cornies! They are beginning to have more and more uses.

I brewed a saison a week ago, and split up the batch in a couple of kegs with fitted airlocks. They leaked at first but with a little electrical tape and duct tape I got them snug.

Primary fermentation is a week underway and I'm considering not racking to a secondary vessel at all, but instead just removing the trub/ yeast cake from the bottom of the keg with Co2. This will allow for a 1 stage fermentation like with a conical. Obviously I will remove the airlocks and put back in the pressure release valves before I do this.

Has anyone tried this????????

Here are my concerns:

1- The slurry will be too thick for the corny to handle and get stuck somewhere along the way
2- Some of the yeast will stick to the sides of the keg, and I'll end up getting autolysis along the road (will age in kegs for at least 1 month)



Gotta run! Thanks for your replies (hopefully )

 

[SuperiorBrew]

I am guessing #1 for sure.

Just rack it to another corny that way you dont expose it to any possible nasties and use co2 to push it. All you need is to make a jumper hose.

 

[TheJadedDog]

I'm thinking you'll either have 1 or both of the issues you mention or some other un-thought of issue. I'd just rack to another corny.

 

[homebrewer_99]

Personally, that wouldn't work for me, and others I'm sure.

I store my cornies in the garage, but my kegerator is in the basement. Any movement puts any sediment back into suspension...

 

[bigben]

You won't get autolysis from 4 weeks.

 

[malkore]

Every move will stir up sediment, so you'll be drinking yeasty beer, or wasting many ounces.

and while autolysis won't occur in the 1 month aging process, if it takes you 3 months to drain the keg, I'd expect the last few pints will start having the dreaded rubbery 'dead yeast' off flavors and aromas.

 

[WBC]

I think it will work fine but to lessen the sediment it may require a shortened pick up tube in the fermenter so you transfer clear beer to the second corny. You will not be able to get 5 gallons though as you need some head space.

 

[abracadabra]

Like the OP I too love cornies. And think they would make great primary fermenters.

However you will not get a lot of the trub off the bottom. Like SuperiorBrew suggested I too think racking to a secondary is a better way to go.

There is going to be trub in the first few pints if you rack off the bottom so I'd toss that out and only rack what comes out clear. Or like WBC suggested you could cut some of the pick up tube off but you'd still need to see what the first few pints looked like to make sure you weren't just racking trub from 1 fermenter to another.

I use cornies as secondaries and I get sediment in the first 8-10 oz. I also would rack to a 3rd cornie if I planned to travel or move the cornie around a lot.

 

[oooFishy]

First off, I don't think I explained myself properly.

My intention is to use Co2 and the dip tube (touching the bottom) to suck out the trub off the bottom of the corny in order to secondary in the same keg without any racking to another fermenting vessel at all. I thought it might be like harvesting yeast using a conical, leaving the primary fermentor free of yeast and trub to let the beer age for a while.

Despite everybody's input, I'm not totally convinced this can't work.

I am not really concerned with kicking up sediment, as the beer will be sitting in the keg for a further month. In addition, I can always run off another pint of the sediment once it has settled.

Also, I have only 2.5 gallons of beer in each keg, so if it is a complete and total disaster I'll only lose half a batch (God forbid).

 

[WBC]

I think the yeast will still be there because the bottom is concave. You will waste quite a lot of beer clearing it in the center but not the outter portions of the bottom. The yeast will not ruin the beer as I have had beer in there a month and it was fine. I also have a conical and it too is not free of yeast as it still clings to the sides and the sides are 30 degrees from vertical which is quite steep an angle. In any case you will make good beer but not a full 5 gallons due to waste and headroom.

 

[Kaiser]

My intention is to use Co2 and the dip tube (touching the bottom) to suck out the trub off the bottom of the corny in order to secondary in the same keg without any racking to another fermenting vessel at all.

Won't work. The slope of the corny bottom is not steep enogh for the yeast to move towards the dip tube. You will create a crater in the yeast and leave most of the yeast behind.

Kai

 

[oooFishy]

Thanks for the helpful replies.

 

[miatawnt2b]

I've read some folks cut the dip tube 3/4 - 1" in the cornies that they ferment in. this way they can use the shortened dip tube to rack to another corny.

-J

 

[olllllo]

Won't work. The slope of the corny bottom is not steep enogh for the yeast to move towards the dip tube. You will create a crater in the yeast and leave most of the yeast behind.

Kai

This also happens to brewers that use conicals on occasion. The wort punches a hole in the cake leaving the yeast to cling to the sides.

The advantage to the conical is that you can compensate for this by hitting the sloped sides with a rubber mallet to get the yeast to fall.

 

[sirsloop]

you'll pull out just a little of the yeast, then beer will start getting sucked out. Rack to another cornie

 

[Bobby_M]

I think we just found a buyer for the imfamous keg pasties!

 

[Poindexter]

I have primaried one batch in a Corny. I pushed it to secondary in another Corny on Christmas day.

Besides "a lot" of yeast and trub left on the floor of the primary corny - cup and a half, maybe two cups - there was also that same ring of really nasty tasting stuff up where the krausen used to be.

I can see leaving the beer in primary on the yeast cake for an extended period, but having opened and cleaned one I would suggest moving the beer to another vessel before moving the keg so you don't get that bitter ring back in the beer.

And my spunding valve parts came in from McMaster Carr yesterday, I'll be bumping wortmonger's thread and so on over the next couple days.

 

[Poindexter]

Won't work. The slope of the corny bottom is not steep enogh for the yeast to move towards the dip tube. You will create a crater in the yeast and leave most of the yeast behind.

Kai

This is exactly my direct observation. I pushed a 2.5gal batch out of primary corny into a secondary corny and left way plenty yeast to pitch on behind.

I could see racking the primary'd beer out, then pushing a little bit of the racked beer back into the primary, maybe a quart. Then pressurizing with CO2, call it a starter and wait a few days to push fresh wort onto the cake.

I stole a box of alcohol wipes from work to keep my Corny posts clean. Just like acessing a Swan Ganz catheter, one alcohol wipe ought to be adequate for two Corny posts.

EDIT:

S-G cath: http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic2956.htm

In 1929, Werner Forssmann was the first to demonstrate that a catheter could be advanced safely into the human heart (in this case, his own). His primary purpose was to develop a technique for direct delivery of drugs to the heart.

EDITEDIT:

alcohol wipes like any of these:
http://www.nextag.com/alcohol-wipes/search-html , just walk in to your neighborhood Walgreen's and say your diabetic aunt is visiting and she needs alcohol wipes to give herself insulin shots. The cheapest kind will be fine, 70% isopropyl. No need to pay extra for the 90%... I can do two Corny posts easy with the basic 1x1 inch square.

 

[Orfy]

The main reason I can see for this being a bad idea is that you want to end up with a corny full of beer. Hence brewing a lager batch to start with to allow for racking and trub.

If you only start with a corny full then you will end up with only a partial corny's worth of beer.

 

[Poindexter]

The main reason I can see for this being a bad idea is that you want to end up with a corny full of beer. Hence brewing a lager batch to start with to allow for racking and trub.

If you only start with a corny full then you will end up with only a partial corny's worth of beer.

I do concede your point. OTOH my in-kitchen stove top AG capacity is really 2.5 - 3.0 gallons depending on the grain bill, so I don't need a blow off tube for those while primarying in a corny.

For extract brews I can pitch on 4 gallons and then rack onto a fifth gallon of water in the secondary. Maybe even 4.5 gal and 0.5 gal, will find out.

Plus I can try a bunch more different recipes burning through 2.5 gal batches.

So it isn't the end of the world. For now while I am travelling every three months (Los Angeles contract expires 01-18. Interviewed for 01-28 start in Dallas TX this AM) - it is good enough. I am watching for a 7.5gal Sanke to use as a Primary for 5gal full boil AG batches. When I find one I will ship to myself at my home in North Carolina.