1 month primary

[Jboggeye]

Hi Guys, I've come to realize that my beers taste a lot better after a 1 month primary than with anything less. I'm guessing it's due to the fact that more yeast and protein is dropping out.

My question is how to properly keep the fermenter for a month. For example, I made a Dubbel, fermented at 68, let it go to 71ish over a week, (all in a small freezer) and after two weeks at 71, I took it out to room temp for another 2 weeks at 72-73. (to free up the freezer)

Is this fine? Or would I be better off letting it sit 2 weeks at cooler temps after hitting 72 for a few days?
or would crash cooling really help here?

Keep in mind that I bottle condition all my beers.


Thanks!

 

[Justibone]

I only control temps for the first week. When the major part of fermentation is done I let my beer come back up to room temperature so it can clean up any side-reaction products (esp. diacetyl) for a week or more.

A full month is fine, don't get me wrong, but if you ever want to cut down on that time I'd start asking about your pitch. For instance, did you make a starter for your dubbel, or did you double-pitch yeast if you used dry? If you are fine with a full month in primary then no worries, keep on keepin' on.

Big beers, like dubbels, need extra time. Session beers (simple recipes, less than 4.5% ABV) tend to finish a bit quicker than that. No beer is hurt by spending a full month in primary, unless you dry hopped it, in which case it's just a matter of dry hopping it a bit later in the process to get the full flavor effect.

 

[Jboggeye]

thanks, I mostly always use liquid yeast with a starter (based on Jamil calc).
so, 1 month at room temp is fine? I would get no benefit from bringing it down to, let's say, 60 degrees?

 

[Justibone]

In the first week, I control my temps very carefully.

After that, I don't.

That's just me.

 

[Revvy]

Pitch Yeast, come back in a month to bottle. It's really nothing more complicated that that. Like Justibone said you can temp control for the first week of active fermentation, like you should with any beer, no matter how long you plan to leave it in primary, but after that all you need to do is ignore your beer for 3 more weeks at whatever you normal room temp is, and bottle.

That's really the beauty of it, you just leave you beer alone and let the magic happen.

And the reason it works in NOT "due to the fact that more yeast and protein is dropping out." It's actually more the fact that your beer is in contact with the yeast longer and that allows them to clean up those byproducts of fermentation that lead to off flavors. The clearer beer is a byproduct of it, but it is more the yeast cleaning up after themselves.

Even John Palmer talks about this in How To Bew;

Leaving an ale beer in the primary fermentor for a total of 2-3 weeks (instead of just the one week most canned kits recommend), will provide time for the conditioning reactions and improve the beer. This extra time will also let more sediment settle out before bottling, resulting in a clearer beer and easier pouring. And, three weeks in the primary fermentor is usually not enough time for off-flavors to occur.

One of the compounds that it clears up in this time is diacetyl. There is some info on it here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/pr...d-butter-please-70438/index2.html#post1080693

It shows that in ales, just leaving it alone at the same temps you fermented it lets the yeast clean that up.

It's a cool process, especially since we have to do nothing except let the yeast do all the work.

 

[Revvy]

In the first week, I control my temps very carefully.

After that, I don't.

That's just me.

+1,000

OP, the cooler you make it for the beer, the LESS work you get out of them because the closer and closer to their dormancy temp you get, the slower they work.

 

[Jawbox0]

+1,000

OP, the cooler you make it for the beer, the LESS work you get out of them because the closer and closer to their dormancy temp you get, the slower they work.

In this case, do you think it would be worthwhile to raise the temperature of the carboy for the last few weeks? For example, I've got a bulk aging barleywine and a Mild still in primary sitting (stable) at 65F in the basement. They're both at stable gravities, but should I perhaps move them both upstairs where the temps are a little higher at 72F? (or just let it sit longer at the lower temp)

 

[Justibone]

should I perhaps move them both upstairs where the temps are a little higher at 72F? (or just let it sit longer at the lower temp)

It might help them finish post-fermentation activities if you move them upstairs. Perhaps the reason your beer tastes better at 4 weeks instead of 3 is because of the low temps.

That being said, you probably don't *have* to move them. If your system is working for you, then you're all good. One of my very good wine-brewing friends ferments behind a couch in her living room... it's just the best place for her. So, whatever works, you know?

 

[Jboggeye]

So no one would suggest bringing the temps back down to 50 or 60 for a few weeks for conditioning?

 

[samc]

So no one would suggest bringing the temps back down to 50 or 60 for a few weeks for conditioning?

I usually cold crash in the 30's for several days to drop out yeast. But I never let my primary go for a month, usually 2 weeks max. Everyone seems to do it differently and really there is no right way to do it.

 

[BuzzCraft]

In this case, do you think it would be worthwhile to raise the temperature of the carboy for the last few weeks? For example, I've got a bulk aging barleywine and a Mild still in primary sitting (stable) at 65F in the basement. They're both at stable gravities, but should I perhaps move them both upstairs where the temps are a little higher at 72F? (or just let it sit longer at the lower temp)

Probably doesn't make a huge difference, since you're in the temp range for most ale yeasts, but I tend to bring mine up to the upper end of the yeasts range as fermentation is slowing and keep it there for a few weeks.

IMO, although this is generally good advice you're getting here, your Mild probably doesn't need to sit in the primary for a month. Lower OG beers like milds don't benefit nearly as much and you're actually (again, IMO) aging them through their sweet spot. i would be drinking that thing by 4 weeks....esp if you're bottling a mild....one month in primary, 2-3 weeks to carbonoate? I'd say a bit too long for that style.

 

[Justibone]

So no one would suggest bringing the temps back down to 50 or 60 for a few weeks for conditioning?

If you want to cold condition, you should do it colder than 50, I think.

 

[Revvy]

If you want to cold condition, you should do it colder than 50, I think.

But being that it is an ale, the beer's really not going to be doing much conditioning with the yeast asleep.

There's really no "cold conditioning" with ales, if you are looking for the yeast to actually be doing anything, like clearing up diacytal and off flavor components.

"Cold Conditioning" is really what lagers do. For an ale the yeast is doing at room temp, what lagers do at slightly above freezing; they swim around cleaning up the messes they made during fermentation.

All dropping an ale yeast to low 50's will do is cause the yeast to go to sleep and flocculate out, there's no harm in that, but that's not really conditioning the beer, that's clearing.....But that will actually retard true conditioning.

Jboggeyel, I know you think you need to do this, but as the person on here who has been long primarying on this forum longer than anyone, I can assure you that your beer is going to be fine just leaving it alone for the month. In fact it's going to be better than fine.

This is my yeastcake for my Sri Lankin Stout that sat in primary for 5 weeks. Notice how tight the yeast cake is? None of that got racked over to my bottling bucket. And the beer is extremely clear.

That little bit of beer to the right is all of the 5 gallons that DIDN'T get vaccumed off the surface of the tight trub. When I put 5 gallons in my fermenter, I tend to get 5 gallons into bottles. The cake itself is like cement, it's about an inch thick and very, very dense, you can't just tilt your bucket and have it fall out. I had to use water pressure to get it to come out.

This is the last little bit of the same beer in the bottling bucket, this is the only sediment that made it though and that was done on purpose, when I rack I always make sure to rub the autosiphon across the bottom of the primary to make sure there's plenty of yeast in suspension to carb the beer, but my bottles are all clear and have little sediment in them.

Half the time I forget to use moss, and you can't tell the difference in clarity, and the reason I started bucking conventional wisdom and leaving it in primary for a month was the judges in competitions all commenting on the taste and clarity of my beer, on the ones that had sat vs the ones that I had done a conventional secondary.....That sold me on it 5 years ago....

 

[Jboggeye]

wow, thanks for such a great reply Revvy. I've been doing one month primaries because I've been getting better beer out of them, so I'll keep doing that, without trying to crash cool.
I think I have a better understanding of the conditioning process, THANKS!

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I always go 18 days at mid to lower temperature ranges for the type of ale yeast I'm using and then over days 19 through 21 let the temperature rise 5-10F for the diacetyl cleanup.

For lagers I do basically the same thing except the process takes 28 days to complete, allowing 3 days for the diacetyl rest.

 

[rico567]

I made this switch to extended primary a year ago (after reading threads by "Revvy" and others), and have gotten nothing but superior beers- all varieties. I don't see how anyone can go wrong by employing it.

 

[Jboggeye]

I'm not second guessing the long primaries, I've been sold since reading the same threads by revvy...

I was mostly curious about the best ways to "extend the primary," (ferm temp the whole time after ramp up, cooler temps for the last week...)

 

[Revvy]

I'm not second guessing the long primaries, I've been sold since reading the same threads by revvy...

I was mostly curious about the best ways to "extend the primary," (ferm temp the whole time after ramp up, cooler temps for the last week...)

Pitch yeast, walk away, bottle in a month. That is all there is too it, it doesn't matter what vessel, or what temp, or what color the room is. All that matters is you leave the beer alone and let the yeast do the work. That's it, you don't have to play with anything else, temps or anything. Just walk away.