1/4 water batch brewing to feed 3/4 room temperature water.

[Thuatha]

Assuming I use mineral water quality. Can I brew ingredients as concentate in 1/4 water/ batch, then pump warm brew into 3/4 of room temperarure water batch?
This to reduce energy cost heating 100% of batch water and avoid using heat exchanger to feed brew into keep tank.
I welcome your comments.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Welcome to HomeBrewTalk @Thuatha.

For cooling the wort, look into the Australian No Chill technique (link).

For boiling a concentrated wort, you will need a solid understanding of why wort is boiled and the impact of boiling wort at various SGs.

You will also need an approach for creating the concentrated wort. High gravity styles (barley wines, imperial stouts) will have some ideas on how to create a high gravity wort at the start of the boil. Reiterative mashing (link) is one technique; there may be others.

There is a similar process idea that uses dry (or liquid) malt extract to create a concentrated wort at the start of the boil (see footnote [1] below). All the malt extract is added at the start of the boil with just 1/2 the water. The rest of the water is added at the end of the boil. This is not a popular technique and brewers claim that it results in a poor quality beer. Chapter 8 of How To Brew, 4e offers some reasons as to why this may result in a poor quality beer.

That being said, a solid understanding of what happens during the boil and creative use of equipment (link to an example) can result in new ways to home brew beer.

---

[1] do not confuse this process (all the extract and half the water at the start of the boil) with the more common "stove top brewing" process (starts with half the water / extract at the start of the boil).

 

[Thuatha]

This is excellent. Thank you so much.

 

[11thStBrewing]

It’s worth a shot. Check out Dr. Hans “shake and brew” series on YouTube. Same idea.



If you use DME I wouldn’t boil it for long (if at all)as it turns dark quickly. Flameout works.

Even for all grain it’s worth trying, I think. Reiterative mashing might be needed like the other response said. Need to use a calculator.

You can use a small enough amount of water that you can add cold water to dilute and chill to pitching temp. There’s calculators online available for mixing different temperature liquids.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

If you use DME I wouldn’t boil it for long (if at all)as it turns dark quickly. Flameout works.

A while back I measured the change in color of a 30 min boil using 'extra light' DME:

which confirms what was mentioned in Basic Brewing Radio in the episodes on Aug 25 and Nov 17, 2005.

IMO: for the glass on the right, that color appropriate for the style being brewed.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/how-do-i-get-lighter-color-with-ipa.690963/

http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=basic-brewing-radio-2005

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

High gravity styles (barley wines, imperial stouts) will have some ideas on how to create a high gravity wort at the start of the boil. Reiterative mashing (link) is one technique; there may be others.

Even for all grain it’s worth trying, I think. Reiterative mashing might be needed like the other response said. Need to use a calculator.

Investigating how high gravity beers are made and how reiterative mash works should provide some insights into the maximum SG that one can expect from an all-grain mash (or series of mashes).

If I "begin with the end in mind" (and limit this part of the discussion to creating an all-grain wort):

• for a 6% (standard strength) beer, I need an OG around 55.
• if I target a 4 gal batch (let's keep the math simple), I need 220 gravity points.
• if I'm adding 3 gal of water for each gal of wort, that means ...
• ... I need 1 gal of OG 220 wort at the end of the mash.

The math only says what needs to be done; it doesn't prove that it can (or can't) be done.

 

[11thStBrewing]

A while back I measured the change in color of a 30 min boil using 'extra light' DME:

View attachment 809127​

which confirms what was mentioned in Basic Brewing Radio in the episodes on Aug 25 and Nov 17, 2005.

IMO: for the glass on the right, that color appropriate for the style being brewed.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/how-do-i-get-lighter-color-with-ipa.690963/

http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=basic-brewing-radio-2005

Wow! The only time I used DME in a batch was 3lb in like 0.75g of water. I boiled it for 15 min and it was pretty dark after.

Maybe due to the low amount of water? It boiled down to about 0.5g. I added 3g of room temp spring water and pitched Lutra. Was about 95F.

Edit: it was done in 1.5 days. I cold crashed and fined on the third day. Burst carbonated. Was clear and actually decent on day 7. It just turned out darker than I hoped.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

@11thStBrewing : At the end of that short boil the wort SG was ~ 250 ( 3 * 44 / 0.5).

From what I have read, I suspect that color doesn't reduce properly when doing either a concentrated boil or a long boil. How long is too long? How concentrated is too concentrated?

I know how to get beer color, appropriate to style, with DME. Highly concentrated boils are not part of that plan.

edits (typos)

 

[11thStBrewing]

@11thStBrewing : At the end of that short boil the wort SG was ~ 250 ( 3 * 44 / 0.5).

From what I have read, I suspect that color doesn't reduce properly when doing either a concentrated boil or a long boil. How long is too long? How concentrated is too concentrated?

I know how to get beer color, appropriate to style, with DME. Highly concentrated boils are not part of that plan.

edits (typos)

Ah, I see. I think he’s trying to do what I did. I appreciate the input! Will keep that in mind if I do a regular extract batch.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I think he’s trying to do what I did.

Not sure who "he" is - but if you're referring to reply #4, I stopped watching that video when the brewer decided to add DME using a narrow funnel.

 

[11thStBrewing]

Not sure who "he" is - but if you're referring to reply #4, I stopped watching that video when the brewer decided to add DME using a narrow funnel.

He = OP. OP was asking about using such a little amount of water that diluting with cool water can get down to pitching temp.

Dr Hans is pretty legit, IMHO. Fresh info and tests etc.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Dr Hans is pretty legit, IMHO. Fresh info and tests etc.

With all due respect to Dr Hans, pouring DME into a container using funnel wasn't a good first impression. "One and done" may be harsh, but I've wasted too much time on other videos by giving them a 2nd chance.

 

[11thStBrewing]

With all due respect to Dr Hans, pouring DME into a container using funnel wasn't a good first impression. "One and done" may be harsh, but I've wasted too much time on other videos by giving them a 2nd chance.

To each their own. It’s all good. What’s the issue with the funnel?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

To each their own. It’s all good.