1 2 3 Rule question.

[mkim]

Hey guys, just finished my first batch of beer, a belgian white which turned out ok for my first beer. I am about to do my second beer, a chocolate/coffee stout and had some questions about the 1 2 3 rule. The first time around, I followed the recipe given to me by the local home brew shop. It was about 5 days in the primary and 2-3 days in the secondary followed by 2 weeks in the bottle. The OG and FG reading were pretty close to what the recipe said we should have, maybe 2 to 3 points off. Since then I have been doing alot of reading around here and noticed that my timing on my first brew seemed really off. When I bought the stout recipe I asked the owner and he said that too long in the primary and secondary will allow the yeast to settle resulting in longer bottling times. Reading this site, it seems some of you guys go for weeks to months in the primary followed by extended periods in the secondary, which seems totally opposite to what the local store owner said. I've gathered that the longer times are for the beer to mature and increase in alcohol for those bigger beers, but will ALL beers benefit from longer primary/secondary times? I know that each brew/fermentation will be different but is there anything to this idea of yeast settling after long periods in the primary/secondary? And as long as my I am close to my FG, is that enough to move on the secondary (btw, how long is too long/too short in the secondary) and then bottle? Sorry for such a long post, but been trying to figure out what to do before I start my stout which I have been itching to do so. Thanks for any help and sorry if I missed any obvious threads that answer all my questions, I tried my best with the search option.

 

[OHIOSTEVE]

I am a rookie also.. I do know however that there is no set rule as to how long you leave the beer in primary. That is determined by the yeast and when they are done doing their work. If you don't have a hydrometer , get one and check the gravity when you think the fermentation is done....check it again 3 days later. If it is the same you can bottle ...if not wait. As for secondary, I use em, but from what I read most on here don't..... I like to have the beer as clear as possible. As for the brew store guys statement about losing too much yeast and making bottle conditioning take longer, I think he is wrong unless you are talking about months in primary.

 

[Beernik]

The beer only "needs" to be in the primary until the fermentation is finished.

You can leave the beer in the primary to let yeast settle out of the beer. If you have some off flavors, letting it sit on the yeast cake may help reduce some of those.

Or you can rack to a secondary. Most beers don't "need" a secondary. Yeast will settle out. You can do bulk conditioning. You can lager. I rack to a secondary because I think my beets get a little better a little faster.

Autolysis, the big boogyman of leaving beer on the yeast cake too long, is pretty rare in beer making. It has as much to do with nutrients than length of time on the yeast cake.

 

[Shoemaker]

First off, the 1-2-3 rule is silly because no fermentation is the same. Some beers take longer than others to ferment. Time is not a good indicator, but a hydrometer reading is. My advice would be to take a hydrometer reading after 2 weeks in the primary, a little less if you are in a hurry. Wait a few days, take another one. If the numbers didn't change, fermentation is complete.

Then you can transfer to secondary. I would suggest skipping the secondary though if its not a lager. I think a lot of beginners feel they have to do a secondary, when in reality, a lot of us here think its not necessary. I used to secondary, but now I just leave my brews, if they are not lagers, in the primary for a month.

 

[ChshreCat]

Around here, the 1-2-3 rule is kind of out dated. The general consensus (if there is such a thing around here) is to go with a longer primary and then a short secondary or just skip the secondary all together. I like a long primary and then a week in secondary. The three weeks in bottle to carb is still a good rule of thumb.

What it comes down to is that you can do it how you want and if it makes beer you like, then you were right. If your beer sucks, try a longer primary. If your beer is flat, try longer in the bottle. And if your beer is infected, try washing your junk now and then.

 

[weetodd]

What they said. As for bottling, unless you are aging a beer for an extended period way beyond 3-4 weeks, you'll have plenty of yeast for carbonation still in suspension.

While 1-2-3 is not a necessity, it's a reasonable rule of thumb for most average sized beers. As you keep brewing, watch your ferment and you'll learn what to do.

Cheers!

 

[mkim]

Thanks for all the help, it is much appreciated. So for a stout, does 2 weeks in a primary followed by a 1 week in the secondary and 3 weeks in the bottle sound good?

 

[broadbill]

think about it: your homebrew shop want you to be back in the shop buying more ingredients ASAP. Therefore, they are going to tell you to ferment for the shortest time possible, so you will be drinking it sooner, and in to buy more ingredients sooner.

 

[Edcculus]

Thanks for all the help, it is much appreciated. So for a stout, does 2 weeks in a primary followed by a 1 week in the secondary and 3 weeks in the bottle sound good?

Honestly, I'd skip the secondary all together. Go 3 weeks in the fermenter, then bottle.

 

[JoeMama]

Honestly, I'd skip the secondary all together. Go 3 weeks in the fermenter, then bottle.

+1 to this

3-4 weeks + in the fermenter and then bottle. I do this with all of my beers (at least the primary part) and beers like stouts often do well with long stretches of age. (Leave it in the bottles for a good long while)

You can try one at 3 weeks (in the bottle), but I can almost guarantee you that when you come back to that same stout at say 6-8 weeks you will be glad that you did

Good luck!

 

[patrck17]

Sounds fine to me. What you will find is that there are only a few things you -must- follow in order to make good beer. Proper sanitization is one, as well as not pitching yeast at too high of a temperature, etc. The other things like time in primary, secondary, conditioning, how much of this grain, which yeast, do I mash at 149F or 155F etc, are not as critical in the beer ending up good. You put all those things together in any number of combinations and you will end up with beers tasting in any number of ways. Some of them you may not like as much as others. That is the joy of beer though there are so many different kinds. The key though, and the reason I said all that stuff, is that what you want to do is aim at doing something consistently, so that when you end up with a beer you really like, that you can be sure to do it again the same way and get the same beer.

So in this context as it applies to you, maybe try 2 weeks in primary and 1 week in secondary and 3 in bottle, if it comes out good then you know that if you do it the same way in the future it will turn out the way you like it. Then you can change it and try 3 weeks in primary, no secondary, 3 in bottle, if this comes out better than you can go with it, if its worse you can go back to the other way.

I experiment around a lot with my process when I make beers, I kind of hope I stumble across something I really like. But I also have 1-2 recipes that I know I like, and if I follow my process everytime I get the beer I want (and a lot more of it than I can drink by myself, lol). Oh and that is another thing, try to keep a good log of all your beers and make notes of key processes, or changes you make to your typical routine. It sucks when you drink a beer that has been sitting in the closet for 5 weeks, think it is amazing, and then can't remember how you made it!

Okay I know that was a lot of talk, but back to your question at hand, I think if you use that schedule your beer will be super tasty.

 

[RushN24]

I bottled my first batch after only a week in primary and it turned out fine and cleared itself up in the bottles within just a few days, but it still took a while for all the flavors to mellow out.
I have a batch in primary now that I will be leaving for 3 weeks before bottling. I think that most beers just don't taste that good before they have had a nice long rest. I'm glad I cracked open a few bottles early though because now I know what 'green' beer taste like.

123 is more of a guideline, it is not a hard and fast rule, as almost everyone on the site will say the only way to tell what stage your at is with a hydrometer, and even after you get a few steady reading you should leave it another week before bottling. Now that I have beer in the bottle I can afford to be patient.

 

[BackBayBrewing]

The real problem with secondary is that it introduces another level of unwanted critters into your beer and also introduces a little more oxygen into the beer. The fact of the matter is, your equipment is never sterilized, it is only sanitized. This means there is "an acceptable" level of contaminants on your equipment. Totally fine, but the more times you rack your beer, the more chance you expose it to contaminants.

Same thing goes for oxygen. Even if you do a nice gentle racking from one carboy to the next, you are inevitably introducing some amount of oxygen into the beer. This WILL have at least a very minor effect on the beer. It might not be noticeable at first, but the beer will oxidize faster the more oxygen that is in there. So at best, you are just opening your beer up to quicker staling.

For me, secondary just isn't worth the risks. UNLESS: if you are dry hopping or using flavor additives like fruit then it should be done in a secondary. Secondaries are not bad for your beer per se, they just don't give that much of a benefit to do them unless you have other reasons such as dry hopping.

My 2 cents.

 

[mkim]

Thanks again for all the tips. I'll definitely try extending my primary and consider cutting out the secondary. I did have one question about recipe (here is the thread, https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/coffee-chocolate-stout-162262/) Will I need a secondary if I want to do a chocolate/coffee stout? Another question I have is about the FG. It seems that the idea is that once it is steady for about 3 days the "fermentation" is done. So if that is the case, will a longer primary not necessarily equal a higher ABV? What determines how high your ABV or OG-FG will be? My first beer was about 5% ABV but how do beers like 90 minute or other beers hit ABV as high as 9-10%?

 

[BackBayBrewing]

My first beer was about 5% ABV but how do beers like 90 minute or other beers hit ABV as high as 9-10%?

There are a lot of factors that can go into this. But the simple answer is ABV is a result of OG and attenuation. Higher attenuation produces lower FG and thus higher ABV.

Basically, the more fermentable sugar you have in your wort (higher OG) the higher potential alcohol content. The other factor is how much of that sugar your yeast will convert. Yeast strains that have high attenuation will generally eat more sugar and produce lower FG/higher ABV.

This is the simple answer, but is a good starting point to help you understand it. for further explanation check out John Plamer's "How to Brew." You can see the first addition for free online at: www.howtobrew.com

 

[Hang Glider]

longer time in the fermenter makes for a cleaner, better tasting beer - (conditioning) - but does not result in higher alcohol. As BackBay has indicated, it is a function of sugar and yeast. When they're done, they're done. But you can let it sit and condition. Stouts I often leave in the carboy for 6 weeks, conditioning.

As far as too much yeast "falling out" if it sits in the fermenter too long (in your original post) - not an issue. There are billions of them. The beer will carb up just fine, even if you do your best to leave all the sediment behind. Bigger beers (stouts) may take more time to carb up - like 6 weeks more (in the bottle) at 70F instead of 3 weeks.

 

[mkim]

Again, thanks for all the help. You guys answered pretty much anything I can think of asking at this point. I'll be brewing today with all my new found information and hope for the best (3 weeks primary with possibly a week in the secondary to add some coffee). Thanks again.