Miserable Brew Day: stuck mash with shiny new mill

Well it was one of those days. I missed my strike temp, missed my mash temp and managed to pour hot water on my feet (fortunately with my boots on).

All that has happened before and didn't bother me. But the worst part was this was the first use of my new milling station and monster mill. I had my first stuck sparge EVER and man was that disappointing. I have been using a corona-style mill previously and I crush quite finely and manage to get upwards of 90% efficiency even on 70/30 wheat grain bills - with no stuck sparges.

I adjusted the monster mill crush to look as close as possible to my corona-style crush but obviously there is major difference in the consistency of the grain bed when lautering. It plugged up immediately and I spent the next hour doing a crazy sparge. I poured all my sparge water into the cooler and then took a pitcher full over and over and poured it through a strainer into a bucket. When the strainer was full I dumped the grain back into the tun and stirred it up really well, repeat as necessary. I ended up with a disturbing amount of grain matter in the kettle this way but figured what the heck and went for it.

The crazy thing is I hit my pre- and post-boil volumes and actually overshot my OG once chilled! The wort tasted as I expected so I'm hopeful the batch will turn out fine (this was a house beer I've made too many times to count). 89% efficiency the hard way I guess.

Obviously I'm going to have to dial back the gap on the mill, I currently have it set at 0.048" and running at 200RPM, I think I'll back it off to 0.051" for next time and perhaps suffer slightly lower efficiency.

This was more to blow off some steam than anything, I should have known better than to crush so fine with a new untested mill.

were you fly or batch sparging?

That seems odd to me Brad. I run my 3 roller at .017" max, and never have anything close to a stuck sparge. Are you sure you are using Imperial gauges? The first time I used my roller I picked up a set of metric feelers and ran the gap at .010" by mistake. But it still didn't stick.

I was going to fly sparge, but I didn't even get that far. I couldn't even run off to vorlauf.

My gauges have both scales but I definitely used the imperial values. I was surprised too because the crush looked really nice, very close to the one I get with my corona. I wonder if the corona just leaves the husks in a shape that works really well with the drilled holes in my manifold. I'll just have to do some experimenting I guess, which means making more beer. I can't say that's a hardship.

I changed a fundamental part of my brewery that's been consistent since my 4th batch, gotta figure there's going to be some hiccups in the changeover.

Are you sure the manifold was cleaned out from the last brew? I had what I thought was a stuck sparge with a stout, but it turns out I had a hardened ball of crud in the manifold that I'm sure was there from the last brew. I think it held together even through steam heating. I clean my manifold every time now.

I clean the manifold every batch so I don't think that was it. I blew into the manifold a couple times to get it flowing briefly but it would stick again immediately. When I was able to remove it from the tun I had no problems running tap water through it.

I'm wondering if a single row of holes just isn't enough with the different style of crush you get with the roller mill. I'm thinking about making another identical manifold but cutting slots instead to see if it makes a difference.

I'm telling you...10# of rice hulls will last you forever (10-12 batches) and they've made my brewing life a breeze.

BierMuncher said:

I'm telling you...10# of rice hulls will last you forever (10-12 batches) and they've made my brewing life a breeze.

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I've never had to use them before so it kinda bugs me that I would need to after moving to a 'better' mill style.

FWIW, I use slots and have never had real problems with stuck sparges. The rice hulls to me are like PH stabilizer...could I get by without?...yes. But I've sure grown accustomed to how easy my sparges flow...regardless of the grain bill or the crush.

Try the slotted manifold. I'd imagine that single row-holes may be part of the problem.

biermuncher what are you using rice hulls for? Im not super familiar.

tdavisii said:

biermuncher what are you using rice hulls for? Im not super familiar.

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ummmmm. rice hulls....?

Any brew shop will carry them. They're exactly that. the hulls from rice and are a great filtration aid. They're very light and fluffy so 10# lasts a long time. I just toss in a sauce pot full with every batch and it helps my efficiency and my sparges are super smooth and clear.

I'll have to ponder my next step tonight. I was planning to brew another batch of Orfy's Mild Mannered Ale tomorrow morning. I wouldn't be able to make a new manifold by then. Maybe I'll do some experiments tonight with the crush and the mill speed and see what I get. I still have the jig for my drill press for the holes so I could also add a couple more rows of holes to my existing manifold easily enough.

It's weird but it's nice to have a problem with my brewery to solve, things have been cruising along too easily for way too many months now.

I have my mill set at .037 and never get a stuck sparge (even with 60% wheat). I do use a SS false bottom though. I always add all the water first as no dry grain gets to the bottom and let it stabilize temperature at strike temp before adding the grains. Do you add water first?

Yes I always add water first and let it stabilize to strike temperature. I've been thinking about the problem and I think BierMuncher is right and the single line of drilled holes on my manifold just isn't sufficient for the kind of crush I'm now getting with the roller mill. I think I'll do a side-by-side comparison of the crush and see what looks different.

As for my manifold, I'm going to add 2 more rows of holes offset from the current (one to each side). At worst nothing will improve and I'll just have to do another crazy sparge and then tinker with the mill gap. At best it solves the problem.

I always keep a bag of rice hulls around in case I get a OH SHI sparge going. You can always add them later into the mash when you've found out it's a frozen goopy mess that needs more space to sparge.

bradsul said:

Well it was one of those days. I missed my strike temp, missed my mash temp and managed to pour hot water on my feet (fortunately with my boots on).

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If it makes you feel better: yesterday I started pouring in 170F to preheat the MLT and heard something but ignored it. Then realized I have left the valve open and water as running out the bottom and splashing my feet. Yay! I also dropped the waterhose and it landed just right so the jet of water went up the leg of my shorts and also up my nose. Woo-hoo!

bradsul said:

I have been using a corona-style mill previously and I crush quite finely and manage to get upwards of 90% efficiency even on 70/30 wheat grain bills - with no stuck sparges.
...
I adjusted the monster mill crush to look as close as possible to my corona-style crush but obviously there is major difference in the consistency of the grain bed when lautering.

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Can you write a sentence or to about the major difference in consistency? I assume the monster grind leaves the hulls in much better shape, and with less flour.

Any pics?

I think slots work better than holes in a manifold as the slots do not compact hulls as bad as holes. Maybe some slots in between the holes?

I was going to do a duplicate manifold but with slots to directly test the lautering vs the holes but I was out of solder and didn't feel like going out. So instead I more than tripled the hole pattern and will see how that works out. Unfortunately (well, not really) I only have time to fish or brew today and the river is calling to me so I won't find out until next weekend.

Thanks to all who responded, I will keep the thread updated with my results. I'm hoping not to have to make a new manifold, this one has a ton of AG batches to its credit and I'd hate to have to put 'er down.

I just installed/built a new mash/lauter tun with a kettle and the plumbing hose thing. I have yet to use it but has anyone had a stuck sparge with the plumbing hose setup?

tdavisii said:

I just installed/built a new mash/lauter tun with a kettle and the plumbing hose thing. I have yet to use it but has anyone had a stuck sparge with the plumbing hose setup?

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Are you referring to the stainless steel braids? If so I doubt you'll find more than a few people who have managed to get one stuck, those things are essentially 100% filter surface area.

Yeah thats it a stainless steel braid. I didnt think you could get a stuck sparge using it. Im really stoked to use it.

I think I've had one stuck sparge with the SS braid, I can't even remember what recipe it was. It's almost always a very smooth, easy drain. Unless you're fly sparging, I can't see any reason to use anything other than the braid.

You might try conditioning the malt as Kaiser wrote up and put in a wiki. Kaiser's malt conditioning wiki. I tried it for the first time this weekend and was very amazed to see the nice fairly whole husks. Kaiser decribes it really well, the mash did seem better suspended. I batch sparged and the flow was great. I also use a slotted manifold very similar to Biermuunchers

I probably only used 1/2 of water or so for the conditioning. I didn't measure it. Rather than using a spray bottle as described in the wiki (I'm too lazy to bother with that), I've got some tubing on my basement sink and I just turned it on to a slow dribble and vigorously stirred with one hand. You definitely want to stay on the too little water side. Just like making bread, too much water and it gets sticky. Once I thought I had enough water in I kept stirring for a little while and the moisture evened out surprisingly well. I dumped the grain into my mill's hopper and went to town. I was a little worried that the grain wouldn't flow properly down the hopper. I was pleased to see it flow just like normal. As an added benefit, there was less dust generated.

Next time I'll put some water into a measuring cup for better control and to see how much I used. The wiki says about 100 ml for 11 lbs of grain and that seemed about right. For my dribble instead of spray technique I think the keys are to add the water slowly and stir well with your hand - I don't think a spoon would give the right mixing action.

I dropped my gap down to 0.035" and about tripled the hole count in my manifold and my sparge is rocking as we speak. Thanks to all for the great suggestions! :rockin: