1800's era tap systems (or clever fake) help.

My best friend just got picked for the Port Huron Welkin's Vintage Base Ball (yes, 2 words) Club. The play by the rules of 1800's Base Ball, bare handed, in long sleeve shirts, no spitting or swearing, no walks, no fouls, etc.

Usually the spouses and friends also dress in period attire.

Anyway, I thought this summer that it would be fun to perhaps whip up a batch of 1800's era beer (tentatively called "Rev. Mike's Curative Tonic & Zymurgilogical Nectar of the gods.")

Since they are sticklers for period detail, I would like to bring the beer in some sort of period looking draft system. (I could just bring bottles but I thought this would be more fun.)

I'd like either to find, or more likely build something, or at least cleverly disguise a contemporary setup to look like it would belong at a game in 1867.

And I'd like to possibly do it as cheaply as possible...

Now to be honest I don't have the space, or money to get into kegging yet, so investing in corneys and co2 systems is not really something I want to do.

Besides,was Co2 used as a delivery system for beer back then? Or was some sort of air driven or pump, or hand pulled cask system used. (I admit I know nothing about draft or keg systems at all, except from what I've gleaned on here from lurking on threads.)

So I'm hoping my esteemed bretherin brewers would have some ideas as to how I could approach this task. Or at least point the way to some resources.

One possible Idea I have would be to somehow disguise a tap a draft system inside an ice filled plastic bucket placed inside something that looks like a wooden barrel and perhaps modify the tap with plastic plumbing pipe/hose to bring the beer up a single tap tower on top of the "barrel." But I know that won't be historically authentic, but it is a thought.

But I'm looking for any good ideas and advice on what to do...I figure Yuri and some of you other consumate DIY'ers can help me come up with something doable and not too costly.

Thanks!

If you're interested this is what Vintage Base Ball looks like.


Here's the Welkin's website, http://www.welkinbbc.com/

And the Vintage Base Ball Association's site, http://wiki.vbba.org/index.php/Main/WhatIsTheVBBA

Hmm, you could get that lower pic made into a blown up print out and then mount it to the front of your 'cart' (or mount it to some foamcore and then hang it in the front), and maybe antique it with some glaze (I forget the name atm) and then clear coat it. The tap handle, in the shape of a bat (the top only), painted white with that blue star in the center (or on the top).

It would be cool to do a push-off theme from one of these:



Properly painted obviously, and sized to fit a 5 lb and your two cornelius kegs. It could be a frame, boxed with 3/8" plywood (you don't want a tank and as long as you paint it waterproof). The wheels can be salvaged, and you can find a blue and white umbrella. It would be pretty cool I think. This way, you can have it for future use and the cost shouldn't run you too high.

You could paint it a neutral color (something that would work well for many themes) and change out the tap handles/etc for different events. You could have a window insert for the display (like the idea I posted above)....like one for Octoberfest, etc.

Damn, I am inspired now, I think I'll make something similar! I think I can salvage all of the materials.

Oh duh, I forgot you don't want to keg...yet. Ok, hmm, space....you could make it so that it disassembles and goes flat, like panels.

Carbonated soda counters existed in the early 1830's, and carbonated water was bottled and sold as early as 1807.

zoebisch01 said:

Hmm, you could get that lower pic made into a blown up print out and then mount it to the front of your 'cart' (or mount it to some foamcore and then hang it in the front), and maybe antique it with some glaze (I forget the name atm) and then clear coat it. The tap handle, in the shape of a bat (the top only), painted white with that blue star in the center (or on the top).

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That's actually a cool idea looking at the logo better.

I just found this interesting quote in an article about beer in the 1800's in New York;

One Daily Eagle article states (1870's) that ale quality hadn't much improved in the previous 20 years except that one did not see any more "handpulls" and "goosenecks". This appartus, familiar to anyone who knows real ale well and which has endured in England uninterruptedly since the early 1800's, had disappeared from Brooklyn by the 1870's!

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So what has used if not goosenecks or handpulls? And what the heck are they?

The whole article is interesting...http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8633

zoebisch01 said:

Damn, I am inspired now, I think I'll make something similar! I think I can salvage all of the materials.

Oh duh, I forgot you don't want to keg...yet. Ok, hmm, space....you could make it so that it disassembles and goes flat, like panels.

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Keep churning, keep churning, keep the ideas flowing....I'm sure there's some way I could do that without kegs!

I just found an interesting article, Draft Beer in 1903

http://jesskidden.googlepages.com/draftbeerin1903

by 1903 "pushing" draught beer with what they called "carbonic acid gas" was already used for 3/4's of the draught beer served in the US.

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.... I take it Carbonic acid is Co2????

Here is an old faucet. ebay.co.uk is your friend:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VERY-OLD-BRAS...goryZ571QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Now, I have no idea what the coupling options are for this, but it is a start.

Another idea would be to do a gravity fed system (just like the barrels). The trick would be 'disguising' it. The hardest challenge (if you want carbonated beer) is to find a suitable vessel.

Ryan_PA said:

Here is an old faucet. ebay.co.uk is your friend:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VERY-OLD-BRAS...goryZ571QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Now, I have no idea what the coupling options are for this, but it is a start.

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That is freaky cool...

In that period, most beer was served using beer engines, which are rather expensive these days. The alternative is a gravity feed system, but small wooden barrels are REALLY expensive.

Right - Carbonic acid is Co2. If you've seen tank trucks of Liquid Carbonic, that's all it is.

david_42 said:

In that period, most beer was served using beer engines, which are rather expensive these days. The alternative is a gravity feed system, but small wooden barrels are REALLY expensive.

Right - Carbonic acid is Co2. If you've seen tank trucks of Liquid Carbonic, that's all it is.

Click to expand...

So I should start then to see if anyone on the internets have DIY'ed a cheap and dirty verion of a beer engine....

The time period people served cask conditioned ale out of hand pumps. You can find them on e-bay every once in a while for a few hundred bucks. They are really cool and if you get into cask conditioned ale it is really the only way to drink it.

I love research....you never know what you dig up...

I just found this..."American Beer - 1908, A series of "Letters to the Editor" sent to the New York Sun newspaper." All about beer and the brewing industry in NY in 1908

http://jesskidden.googlepages.com/19082

Draft Beer in 1903
http://jesskidden.googlepages.com/draftbeerin1903

The Brunswick Pilsners (Pre-prohibition) with recipes
http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.1/jankowski.html

Beer in the Late 1800's New York.
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8633&page=3

You should check this thread as well:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=10529

Does anyone have the May 1997 or The January 2005 issue of BYO? Evidently they had DIY Beer engine plans...the 2005 plan evidently used a handpump from an RV...

Ryan_PA said:

You should check this thread as well:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=10529

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Geez...just when I ask about the BYO plans, you find me a thread about it!! Thanks.

When you guys talk about gravity systems, what do you mean?

I just found this on another forum...



It uses one of these...




I guess I could just do something like that and build a wooden box around the cooler...but a 5 liter mini keg would not be good for many beers though... that's 14 12 ounce beers before re placing the mini keg...

a hand pull or gooseneck is essentially a hand pump in operation (just like a party pump on a sanky keg). They looked like a traditional tap handle, were mounted to a bar, and had a "gooseneck" faucet that arched out of them. By pulling back on the tap handle, it depresses a plunger which pumps air into the keg thus forcing beer out. We installed a few of these overe the years, mainy for fullers products. They are available, but would require the use of a corny (which I believe you mentioned you are not ready to purchase). The downside to these is they introduce ambient air into the keg and CO2 so the enviroment inside the keg becomes ripe for spoilage if not consumed in a reasonable amount of time. Here is an example:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/traditional-h...Item?IMSfp=TL080507144a44609#ebayphotohosting

Hand pulls are used for cask ales mostly. My favorite stout ever was made by a Scottish friend who barrel aged and served through a hand pull. Fullers ESB is rather tasty on a hand pull as well.

Ahh, you know now....I think you're onto something. We used to use those hand pumps, and they are kinda ok, but I am not sure how much they are. The brainstorm I had though, maybe you could convert two or three of those Heine kegs? Ya know, drink the Heine rather than buying the vessel outright which will probably be close to the cost anyhow.

a gravity fed system is basically like a water cooler at the office. No pressure is used to dispense, it just flow out (without all the bubbles) since there is a way for air to get in at the top, and a way for beer to leave out the bottom.

zoebisch01 said:

Ahh, you know now....I think you're onto something. We used to use those hand pumps, and they are kinda ok, but I am not sure how much they are. The brainstorm I had though, maybe you could convert two or three of those Heine kegs?

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Yeah that's what I'm thinking....I'll probably need 2.5- 3 gallons worth of beer to serve at least one beer to members of both teams, usuing small glasses. It's too bad that a 3 gallon water jug or better bottle wouldn't work for the small amount of pressure from pre-carbing the beer....What I would probably do is bulk prime the beer in whatever container or keg I would use (that's why I thought of modifying a tap a draft system.....

Mcswigging mentioned this, "The downside to these is they introduce ambient air into the keg and CO2 so the enviroment inside the keg becomes ripe for spoilage if not consumed in a reasonable amount of time."

That won't be a problem, the beer would be consumed that afternoon.....

Based on an educated guess the Quick and Dirty Method:
1)Invert Corny.
2)Serve beer out of the Gas In. Use the Gas In QD and attach to your tap.
3)The Beer Out and dip tube becomes your breather valve. Connect your Beer Out QD to an open hose.
4) Disguise as necessary... barrel what have you.

Here is the ultimate style/dispensing method you are aiming for.
http://www.camra.org.uk/

olllllo said:

Here is the ultimate style/dispensing method you are aiming for.
http://www.camra.org.uk/

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Yeah, I was reading about CAMRA....They're pretty serious beer heads!

This one's for you, Nell!

Hopleaf said:

This one's for you, Nell!

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Is that you? So what's your Base Ball name? It looks like my friend may end up with "fingers" as in Butter.

SO haven't you thought of doing something like this for your team?

Looks like Conan O'Brien to me...

Revvy said:

Is that you? So what's your Base Ball name? It looks like my friend may end up with "fingers" as in Butter.

SO haven't you thought of doing something like this for your team?

Click to expand...

I was referencing a classic Conan O'Brien clip

http://www.guzer.com/videos/conan_1864_baseball.php

hmmm, here's a possible idea...

Take one of these;



A six liter tap a draft bottle.

Stand it upright in a basic plastic bucket filled with ice...



Then place that inside one of these cheap garden barrel planters...



Then make a wooden top for it....Something that I could get in and out of to swap out the TAD bottles when they're empty. Maybe put handles on the sides of the barrel.

Okay...that's what I got so far....now some way to draw the beer up out of the bottle.....A hand pump system like in the beer engine? Use the tad system with Co2?

Any ideas?

Does the TAD system Have to be used on their sides? Or can they stand upright?

Is there a way to rig some sort of manifold so more than one bottle can be hooked up at the same time, like 2 or 3 at once? If 2 of them could be hooked up at once AND fit inside a bucket, then that would be 3 gallons of beer...that should be plenty for a taste of beer...

zoebisch01? Anyone?

Is the upside down corny too easy?

olllllo said:

Is the upside down corny too easy?

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Well I said in the beginning of the thread that I'm not ready to invest in kegging...I really don't have the space for any kegging system that I wouldn't be using on a regular basis (as much as I yearn for a keezer)....

Or maybe since I admit knowing nothing about kegging that I'm thinking I'd need more than just a keg.....wouldn't I still need a co2 system?

If I bough a corny just for this it probably wouldn't be a smart investment......

But I'm not turning anyone's suggestions aside, including thinking kegging.....

The corny setup should cost you about $50 total for the beverage part. All you would need to do is make it look good.

$30 for a keg
2 x $7 for the Quick Dissconnects
and $6 for tubing and picnic tap

You can still prime using corn sugar or DME as you would with bottles.

It would also be neat if you brewed recipes typical of the period. I know you can find recipes for George Washington's Porter and others (obviously thats earlier but may be close)

sause said:

The corny setup should cost you about $50 total for the beverage part. All you would need to do is make it look good.

$30 for a keg
2 x $7 for the Quick Dissconnects
and $6 for tubing and picnic tap

You can still prime using corn sugar or DME as you would with bottles.

Click to expand...

Oh really? *Starts to rethink this idea* Thanks OllllO and Sause!

Hopleaf said:

It would also be neat if you brewed recipes typical of the period. I know you can find recipes for George Washington's Porter and others (obviously thats earlier but may be close)

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Yeah some of those articles I found and linked to talked about some of the beers of the late 1800's, it was sort of a transition period of style popularity, there were still plenty of ales, including IPA's, and blonde ales, but pilsners and lagers were just catching on as well....

I've been thinking either an IPA from that era or a blonde...I'm not a fan of lagers and pilners...I'd PREFER to do a stout myself, but I know most people there would be BMC drinkers....so a blonde would probably be good for ale of us.

I see.

But its only a 5 gallon vessel. It's a kegging system only if you make it one.

olllllo said:

I see.

But its only a 5 gallon vessel. It's a kegging system only if you make it one.

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Ah, I never thought of them that way. I know people ferment in them an stuff, I just never approached them that way.

Right now I'm looking at pics of corneys to see what you meant by;

2)Serve beer out of the Gas In. Use the Gas In QD and attach to your tap.
3)The Beer Out and dip tube becomes your breather valve. Connect your Beer Out QD to an open hose.

Click to expand...

So would this then be a "gravity system?"

Yes gravity. old skool. low carbonation.

olllllo said:

Yes gravity. old skool. low carbonation.

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OK..sounding very stupid, so have patience, since this aspect is all new to me. Does that mean that any tap or spigot would have to be at the bottom of the "barrel?" Or is there enough pressure coming out to push the beer up to some sort of spigot at the top....Or would I still need a beer engine type pump if I wanted some sort of goose neck faucet on top of the barrell?

I'm spitballing.

But gravity, you know. Siphoning.

Spigot has to be lower than the level of the top of the beer.

Charley Pap has a whole trestise on siphoning. You want I should dig it up.

As long as the level of the liquid in the barrel is higher than the tap it would just pour out. If the level of liquid is lower you might need a hand pump.

olllllo said:

I'm spitballing.

But gravity, you know. Siphoning.

Spigot has to be lower than the level of the top of the beer.

Charley Pap has a whole trestise on siphoning. You want I should dig it up.

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Is it in "Complete Joy....?" Or is it an article?....If it's not in the book, then I'd appreciate it.