Got my kegs back.. what do you think

aekdbbop · Apr 29, 2008

Ok, got my kegs back, and the outside looks awesome..the inside is a different story.. please excuse the fact that they need to be cleaned out and pressure washed..

do you guys think:

1) this will affect the beer in its current condition.

2) i should file it down or do something to it

3) just use some BKF and it will be fine...

I really don't want to go back to him, he was kind of a pain to deal with and took forever.. but he did charge very little to do all three..

thanks for your input..

jdoiv · Apr 29, 2008

Those look pretty ugly. I would try cleaning them up first just to see how bad it really is. I don't know if I would take them back to the same guy though.

aekdbbop · Apr 29, 2008

i think they may be ok, after i put some elbow grease into them.. i was trying to scratch the metal off, and it didnt dust..

i can just chalk it up to some ugly beirmuncher junk

Bobby_M · Apr 29, 2008

Let's see the outside. Mine look pretty nasty inside too but it's not rusting or anything.

the_bird · Apr 29, 2008

He should re-passivate those with some BKF though, right?

You sure woulnd't want those welds on a fermenter; on a boil vessel, should be OK.

GilaMinumBeer · Apr 29, 2008

The bulkhead/nipple is welded in backwards. :drunk:

aekdbbop · Apr 29, 2008

looks great on the outside.. prefect looking.. ill get pics later.. doing a walkthrough on our new home we sign for tomorrow!

aekdbbop · Apr 29, 2008

bird, what did you mean by re-passivate? sorry, new term for me.

BierMuncher · Apr 29, 2008

aekdbbop said:
looks great on the outside.. prefect looking.. ill get pics later.. doing a walkthrough on our new home we sign for tomorrow!

New home...

New kegs....

What could be better than.........HEH!!!!

What the hell is with another BM ugly junk comment???

Is it not apparent I have self image "issues"?

Does your mother know you talk bad about people like this?

Don't you guys have any mercy for a guy with really, really thin skin?

Yuri_Rage · Apr 29, 2008

GilaMinumBeer said:
The bulkhead/nipple is welded in backwards.

Umm...no. They are two sided - you can put a fitting inside and out.

The weld job is TERRIBLE! There was no attempt to protect the back side of the weld. Fortunately, these are for hot-side applications, so there is little need to worry about harboring infection in the cracks and crevices of a poorly executed weld. NEVER have any stainless welded by that shop again. They don't know how to handle it.

Some BKF at a minimum, along with a little grinding (if you have the capability) are in order. You shouldn't have too much trouble with further corrosion, but you have every right to be disappointed.

morrighu · Apr 29, 2008

I'd recommend getting them as smooth as possible for the simple reason that you have to be able to clean this, otherwise you're liable to have bits of a porter stuck in your hefe, which wouldn't be pretty. I'd go after them with a dremel tool and a mini grinder wheel.

Just my 2 cents.

Jared311 · Apr 29, 2008

I suggest going to Harbor Freight and buying a 4-1/2" angle grinder for $18. Then you can clean up those welds with some BKF. Although you might have trouble on some of the couplings that stick further into the keggle because you won't have as easy access to their bottom halves.

Yuri_Rage · Apr 29, 2008

Jared311 said:
I suggest going to Harbor Freight and buying a 4-1/2" angle grinder for $18. Then you can clean up those welds with some BKF.

There's no way you're gonna get a 4-1/2" angle grinder around the interior welds.

Jared311 · Apr 29, 2008

Yeah, you must have caught my post while I was editing it. I am going to use my 4-1/2" angle grinder but I made sure that my couplings didn't stick far into the keggle so that I could access the bottom halves. I am planning on using a used blade that had a much smaller diameter.

aekdbbop · Apr 29, 2008

so what? a file? or i have a knock off dremel..

aekdbbop · Apr 29, 2008

oh, and i should say...

he did do a better job first.. then i had to take them back to him because i didnt have him stick the coupling halfway in and out... it was just flush in the front. So he had to cut the old one off, and put the new one on. Still prolly isnt an excuse.

Bobby_M · Apr 29, 2008

Yuri_Rage said:
Umm...no. They are two sided - you can put a fitting inside and out.

The weld job is TERRIBLE! There was no attempt to protect the back side of the weld. Fortunately, these are for hot-side applications, so there is little need to worry about harboring infection in the cracks and crevices of a poorly executed weld. NEVER have any stainless welded by that shop again. They don't know how to handle it.

Some BKF at a minimum, along with a little grinding (if you have the capability) are in order. You shouldn't have too much trouble with further corrosion, but you have every right to be disappointed.

In all fairness Yuri, I don't know many welders that flux or back gas these types of jobs at least at the prices we're willing to pay. Mine have some sugaring on them and I'm completely fine with that. It was hard enough to find a shop that would do it at all. I wouldn't be thrilled with those particular welds, but I wouldn't be suicidal over it either.

aekdbbop · Apr 29, 2008

or is there a metal sandpaper kinda thing.. ehh.. who knows.. i'm tired.

WBC · Apr 29, 2008

That is really too bad he did not try to use shielding gas on the back side. If you have access to an air die grinder and stainless mounted stones and then finish up with cartridge rolls you should be able to clean it up fairly good. You can use a diamond stone dresser to shape the end of the stone for the correct radii for the corner. Just try not to undercut the sheetmetal at all as it is not that thick. Be careful and use eye protection and plenty of light to see what you are doing. I was a tool and die maker for over 40 years.

Yuri_Rage · Apr 29, 2008

Bobby_M said:
In all fairness Yuri, I don't know many welders that flux or back gas these types of jobs at least at the prices we're willing to pay. Mine have some sugaring on them and I'm completely fine with that. It was hard enough to find a shop that would do it at all. I wouldn't be thrilled with those particular welds, but I wouldn't be suicidal over it either.

They'll get the job done, and there isn't any need to get too bent out of shape about it. However, I wouldn't rush back to that shop to have more work done, and I would definitely be a bit disappointed.

My issue is with welders that either don't know to protect the welds or are too lazy to do it. Backgassing is EXTREMELY simple and takes no more than about 5 minutes (plus a spare argon tank and regulator...which every shop surely has) to set up for a small job like this. I've made plenty of stainless welds that I'm not proud of by trying to take shortcuts when the reality is that backgassing is too simple to ignore.

Bytor1100 · Apr 29, 2008

Well I'd imagine most welding shops don't do this sort of thing on a regular basis, and know the ins and outs of the expectations of homebrewers

Yuri_Rage · Apr 29, 2008

Bytor1100 said:
Well I'd imagine most welding shops don't do this sort of thing on a regular basis

It's a pretty basic procedure. There isn't much excuse.

Philip1993 · Apr 29, 2008

I gotta agree with Yuri. I'm not even a welder and just from reading this thread I can ascertain that back gassing means flooding the reverse side with an inert gas to prevent oxidation of the molten liquid bead. And I'm guessing that all that's required is a tank, regulator, and a delivery wand to keep a steady flow of the gas over the rear of the weld.

Assuming I'm not dead wrong; If I can figure out that much from a short discussion in a beer forum then a professional welder should certainly understand and appreciate it.

Bytor1100 said:
Well I'd imagine most welding shops don't do this sort of thing on a regular basis, and know the ins and outs of the expectations of homebrewers

True enough, but it would seem that joining to metals of greatly differing thickness would present a significant risk of damaging the thinner metal (in this case, the keg). And while keggle welds may not be commonplace, I would think that thick/thin joins would be within the repitore of someone who welds for a living.

Don't get me wrong. I've never welded and I'm not claiming that it's easy to do (or within my ability). Just making a statement that if a total novice 'gets it', then it's not unreasonable to expect it from a professional.

Oakwoodforge · Apr 29, 2008

Bummer on the weld Job , your welder must be a BMC drinker

Id invest in a good Dremmel tool - Avoid Steel wool for clean up though this will make your keggle rusty - Scothcbrite 3M Discs are great for this type of grinding and removing "bird shiat " from lazy welders.

Passivating is a process of making stainless steel -stain resistant again after heating, exposure to bleach or welding. Stainless is "stainless" due to chromium oxides present on the surface, which are destroyed by heat or chemicals like bleach. Passivating brings back those oxides and is typically done with a nitric acid bath or exposure to a clean ( and degreased ) O2 rich environment.

Blacksmith by Trade
Brewer By Choice

Prost !

Jens

GilaMinumBeer · Apr 29, 2008

Yuri_Rage said:
Umm...no. They are two sided - you can put a fitting inside and out.

Umm...Duh! Hence the :drunk:

at the end. Sorry, forgot the html tags [sarcasm][/sarcasm]

PAbrewer07 · Apr 30, 2008

Use a steel wire brush (about the size of a tooth brush) to clean the welds. The brush does not have to be stainless. Youll be surprised how clean the welds look afterward. I wouldnt grind anything.

In welding preparation is criticalwho drilled the holes? If one hole was larger than the other I would expect more drop through with the larger hole. It just looks like the sheet metal wasnt flush with the fitting for the one weld, thats all. Even a small gap between the welded surfaces could have caused this.

Yuri_Rage · Apr 30, 2008

PAbrewer07 said:
Use a steel wire brush (about the size of a tooth brush) to clean the welds. The brush does not have to be stainless. You’ll be surprised how clean the welds look afterward. I wouldn’t grind anything.

In welding preparation is critical—who drilled the holes? If one hole was larger than the other I would expect more “drop through” with the larger hole. It just looks like the sheet metal wasn’t flush with the fitting for the one weld, that’s all. Even a small gap between the welded surfaces could have caused this.

Apologies, but you're incorrect. Do not use a carbon steel brush to clean the welds. It may leave deposits that will later rust. Also, the ugly portion is not simply "drop through," it's "sugaring" due to a lack of protection on the back side of a stainless weld.

kladue · Apr 30, 2008

Yuri's statement about not using carbon steel brushes, steel wool is quite true, it looks okay right after you clean up, but rusts up nicely when it gets wet. If you want to passivate the inside you can use a 50-50 mix of citric and ascorbic acid in water held near 180 degrees for a couple of hours to remove free iron from stainless and rebuild oxides. Nitric acid has gone out of favor for pipe and tank passivation due to handling and disposal hazards, heated citric & ascorbic acid is method of choice now. You should be able to get adequate results with 4Oz dry weight acid blend per gallon of water held at 180 degrees, this will not remove black nickel oxide deposits though. There is a flouride mix you can get from welding supply companies that will do that but I do not reccomend it for some one not used to handling strong acids or caustics.

EvilTOJ · Apr 30, 2008

50-50 mix of citric and ascorbic acid

I know this is going to sound stupid, but if it were my keggle I would ask this:

For the citric and ascorbic acid, couldn't you just use lemon and orange juice?

aekdbbop · Apr 30, 2008

so you cant re-passivate with BKF like bird said?

you guys are making me more depressed.

Got my kegs back.. what do you think

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