ok.. time to laugh at the new guy.. (me)

What the heck is a sugar break???

Kody

When you go to the break room for a doughnut at 10:30.


Sorry just a beer brewer without any mead training.

Kody_Wulfe said:

What the heck is a sugar break???

Kody

Click to expand...

I'm glad you asked because I was just wondering the very same thing after reading a few recipes.

Sugar break is when using a Staggered Nutrient Addition (SNA) where you target the additional nutrient addition points.

Various protocols call for differing points you would add the nutrients.

I do a 1/3 and 2/3 sugar break nutrient addition protocol. 1/3 and 2/3 Sugar break is defined as 1/3 and 2/3 of the expected drop in Gravity

Example:
If the Original Gravity is 1.100 and expected Final Gravity is 1.000 subtract the two to get 0.100 drop in gravity. Then divide the Gravity Drop of 100 by 3 and you get .033.

0.100 - 0.033 = 0.067 and with the 1.000 expected then your 1/3 break is 1.067 for the nutrient addition. Same math applies for the 2/3 break of course using 0.066 and is 1.033 (Rounded down)

A sugar break is a term used to define a point of reference during the course of fermentation. This point of reference is useful when designing your SNA schedule and is usually measured with a hydrometer. An example would be more easily understood I think.

Your Original Gravity (OG) is 1.090. Lets say your SNA schedule calls for your first feeding at pitch, your second at the 1/3'rd sugar break, and your final at the 2/3'rd sugar break. The 1/3rd sugar break occurs when your gravity reading is 1.060, or when 1/3'rd of the sugar has been consumed by the yeast. The 2/3'rd sugar break occurs when your gravity reading is 1.030, or when 2/3'rd of the sugar has been consumed by the yeast.

You can benchmark sugar breaks for stuff other than feedings too like spice and fruit additions. Comes in handy when you're trying to duplicate a successful brew or adjust to make one better.

So its basically a lay-mans term for SNA?! Learn something new everyday..

So lets discuss approaches of SNA..

The book I have been going by seems to dictate the following:
Day 1 (day yeast is pitched in must): First SNA
Day 2 : Degas
Day 3 : Second SNA
Day 4 : Degas
Day 5 : Third SNA
Day 6 : Degas
Day 7 : Degas
Add Forth SNA at 30%
Note: that the Over all amount of SNA for a batch is made ahead of time and then spilt evenly.

But is sounds like you all go by 1/3's is this better practice?

^^^ That's pretty much what I do, but yes it's better practice to add nutrients based on where the ferment is at rather than time. The 1/3 and 2/3 breaks would take the place of day 3 and 5. Also, the first addition is done after the lag phase (day 1 usually), when active fermenting has actually begun.

nate85 said:

So its basically a lay-mans term for SNA?! Learn something new everyday....

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No, that is not correct. Sugar Breaks are a measurement 'location.' I.E. 1/3 break is when 1/3 of the expected gravity drop has occurred.
Kind of like 60 miles might be a 'food break' on a 180 mile road trip.

SNA is Staggered Nuitrent Addition. This is a type of 'feeding' of the fermenting product. The additions occur at 'sugar breaks' but it may not be 1/3, 2/3, etc, etc. They may be at 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 or 1 week, but no latter.....
You can have SNA, or just dump all the nuitrent at the start, or no nutrient, or???

Hope that helps

What is the advantage of adding nutrient at intervals rather than adding all the nutrient shortly after the yeast has been roused? Adding before the yeast is active can -I understand - damage them. Is the TOSNA or the SNA designed to "feed" daughter cells? In reality is the yeast count so much larger because of daughter cells at the end of active fermentation? What is the basis for the assumption that if the nutrients are being added to assist the yeast in cell repair and in creating the enzymes they need to metabolize the sugars they don't need the entire dose in one shot and that rationing the one dose into three results in a) healthier yeast and b) a better quality mead? What's the evidence... ? And where was it published?

bernardsmith said:

What is the advantage of adding nutrient at intervals rather than adding all the nutrient shortly after the yeast has been roused? Adding before the yeast is active can -I understand - damage them. Is the TOSNA or the SNA designed to "feed" daughter cells? In reality is the yeast count so much larger because of daughter cells at the end of active fermentation? What is the basis for the assumption that if the nutrients are being added to assist the yeast in cell repair and in creating the enzymes they need to metabolize the sugars they don't need the entire dose in one shot and that rationing the one dose into three results in a) healthier yeast and b) a better quality mead? What's the evidence... ? And where was it published?

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Some documentation from American Homebrewers Association:

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/improve-mead-staggered-nutrient-additions/


.. and from MeadMadeRight regarding TOSNA (organic)

- 14% alcohol fermentation in under two weeks
- steady clean fermentation without spikes
- no risk of stuck fermentation
- superb pH buffering
- easier to maintain lower fermentation temperature
- less sulfur production during fermentation
- prolonged yeast activity

bernardsmith said:

What is the advantage of adding nutrient at intervals rather than adding all the nutrient shortly after the yeast has been roused? Adding before the yeast is active can -I understand - damage them. Is the TOSNA or the SNA designed to "feed" daughter cells? In reality is the yeast count so much larger because of daughter cells at the end of active fermentation? What is the basis for the assumption that if the nutrients are being added to assist the yeast in cell repair and in creating the enzymes they need to metabolize the sugars they don't need the entire dose in one shot and that rationing the one dose into three results in a) healthier yeast and b) a better quality mead? What's the evidence... ? And where was it published?

Click to expand...

Well, Ken Schramm and Steve Piatz advocate for SNA. And loveofrose does too. That's good enough for me. I'm assuming that they've come to this conclusion through trial and error.

This is what I believe: Adding all your nutrients at once at the beginning of fermentation will inspire the yeast to consume all the nutrient at the fastest rate possible - based on biomass and nutrient level. This level of activity will increase CO2 which would subsequently increase acid levels - maybe adding more KHCO3 would help, ...how much? multiple doses? ,I don't know.

It would also be more difficult to control temp due to increased activity. Temperature has an influence on the behavior. Some yeasts, especially the ones I use, do better below 65*.

The faster (and more often) the environment changes, the more difficult it is for the yeast to adapt - some die, others stress to varying degrees. Stressed yeast produce fusels.

The Travis Blount-Elliott google doc research paper on Advanced Nutrients in Meadmaking stresses an even activity level through out the ferment as a way to temper stress levels in yeast. Maintaining a consistent environment, including nutrient levels through SNA, is the focus of this paper.

Besides, I added all my nutrient up front for my first 2 batches and had to wait almost 2 years until I could enjoy it. After SNA, I've been drinking my mead after 3 months.

I have heard people say that adding DAP diamonium phosphate after some ethanol is made creates a toxic compound. They (experts and people who talk like them) say not to add after fermentation begins. I can see adding all your nutrients first, building yeast cell count, and then staggering the sugar additions.

So what are the correct proportions at each break??

K

That depends on the recipe. But it is usually, 1/3,1/3,1/3. Now if you want to know how much to add, that is dependent on way to many variables including yeast type, O.G. and if you have any fruit in the mix.

fossilcat said:

The Travis Blount-Elliott google doc research paper on Advanced Nutrients in Meadmaking stresses an even activity level through out the ferment as a way to temper stress levels in yeast. Maintaining a consistent environment, including nutrient levels through SNA, is the focus of this paper.

Click to expand...

It's a good read:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/11pW-dC91OupCYKX-zld73ckg9ximXwxbmpLFOqv6JEk/edit

A calculator for determining the amount of nutrient to add can be found here:

http://www.meadmakr.com/tosna-2-0/

And a chart that gives the relative nitrogen needs of some popular yeasts is here:

http://www.piwine.com/media/pdf/yeast-selection-chart.pdf

So here's an article by Ken Schramm where he advocates for the use of SNA.

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0000/1256/NDzym05_MasterMead.pdf

2 things I found very interesting. First, he sites a Lallemand contention that yeast produce 33% more alcohol during the growth phase so it would benefit the brewer to extend the growth phase. In addition to GoFerm rehydration he recommends incremental nutrition additions of DAP and Fermaid K every 12 hours with vigorous aeration, starting after lag and ending at the 1/2 sugar break or 5 days, whichever comes first.

Until recently, I was aerating until the 1/2 sugar break, for no real good reason, just because. Then I stopped because I thought the growth phase stopped at the end of lag and aeration might introduce an oxidation risk. Until I found this article, I didn't realize you could extend the growth phase beyond the lag.

The second, maybe less interesting point, is he acknowledges the existence of bacteria in the must, it's direct competition with the yeast for nutrients, and his recommendations to lessen it's influence during fermentation.