Going Wild

Yep, although my knowledge is rather limited and I'm still very much learning about brewing in general, I'm going wild. Or well, attempting to anyways.

The idea of using a wild, local yeast in a beer is absolutely fascinating to me. As yeast in general are fascinating to me.

After doing a ton of reading, I'm trying my hand at collecting some wild yeast and just going to see what happens. If I get any, and as they grow, I will isolate colonies using agar plates and try to purify them the best I can without a microscope or a microbiology degree lol.

Eventually decided to go on mute dog's method because it seemed pretty easy. Create some lower gravity, low hopped wort, put your flowers, tree bark, fruit in it for 6-12 hours, pull that out and let it set for a while and see if you get anything.

While over at my childhood property this evening for dinner, I got some flowers, put them in my cooled wort I made earlier and am staring at them like a small child stares at a snow globe. I'll keep you all posted or whoever cares about it. Should be fun.

Oh, for the flowers, I did one mason jar with daisies and roses, one with honey suckle, and one with little flowers off some hedge bush my mom said the bees love.

Wish me luck.

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I'm on the 10th generation of my local yeast, which I have a thread on if you are interested in my process. I used a different process then you have chosen, I placed containers of my sasion 2nd runnings around my property then stepped all samples up to 1 gallon and selected the best. I got lucky and my wife was in a microbiology class at the time and was able to get my sample plated and isolated but even before isolated it turned out great lambic styles. This reminds me I need to update that thread for subscribers as I just finally tapped that beer last month

Awesome nettekdl! I thought about doing it with that method but read a bunch about people getting mold and what not, or it being too hot and stuff.

However, I want to do that method this fall and place them in different areas, fields, orchards, woods, etc and just play with it.

I love the idea of wild/local yeast and hopefully I get something but we'll see. We had two solid days of rain and I'm hoping the rain didn't wash off any yeast that were on the flowers.

Nettekdl, can you link your post here?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=528270 there is the URL for the thread I had. A fun little thing I did with it was used my neighbors malted barley, my homegrown hops, homegrown sour cherries and the local yeast to make an all local cherry lambic

nettekdl said:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=528270 there is the URL for the thread I had. A fun little thing I did with it was used my neighbors malted barley, my homegrown hops, homegrown sour cherries and the local yeast to make an all local cherry lambic

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Now that. Is. Awesome!

Super cool! Subscribed.

I should mention, in addition to mute dog blog, I also read a lot of Sui Genaris blog on the subject as well. They're both awesome reading if you're into this kind of stuff!

I got the flower idea off another blog of a guy who knows mute dog and he used some lavender for his sample. I'm hoping I have the same luck as he did because he got a heck of a yeast strain from that lavender!

Awesome, I hope you catch something good! Flowers are a good source of yeast, especially those visited by bees. I've caught yeast from a plum blossom that was quite excellent, and I'm planning on harvesting from some blackberry flowers growing near the location of an old brewery from the 1880s that's now a hiking trail.

Holy smokes! Mute Dog! Thanks for popping in here man! You're kind of like a celeb to me since I've read a bunch of your stuff, even on the raw Ale!

I'll have to re check cause I cant remember if I want these samples warm or more on the chilled side of things.

I checked them this morning and they were sitting at 63, so I put them in a warm closet where they should reach mid 70's.

This is a KILLER! Subd in for sure! Wild is a place I, myself haven't played with much. I have done a porter and a few others but nothing like this! I LOVE IT! Keep us posted you guys! Between the 2 threads and of course @mutedog and his wild ride, there is some killer reading here!

Cheers
Jay

Thanks Jaybird!

I was reading an article last night about a Japanese professor using yeast sourced from local Japanese flowers to use in sake since there's been a huge decline in ranges of taste and styles in sake. Thought that was a pretty cool read.

Hoping these flowers get me some good strains going.

@Tactical-Brewer generally I just ferment them in the typical ale range, or just room temp, whatever is easier.

mutedog said:

@Tactical-Brewer generally I just ferment them in the typical ale range, or just room temp, whatever is easier.

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Perfect!

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Forgot SWMBO had some yeast nutrient and energizer for her wine so I put just a dash in each. Still just keeping my fingers crossed.

Put them on top of the cabinets where they're sitting at a nice 71.9 degrees.

I just picked some red and white clover and put them in mason jars with leftover wort.

@Tactical--it looks like you have capped your mason jars with lids. You don't want to do that. If yours starts fermenting it will explode the jars because they are not designed for carbonation.

I set mine with sanitized foil.

Aristotelian said:

I just picked some red and white clover and put them in mason jars with leftover wort.

@Tactical--it looks like you have capped your mason jars with lids. You don't want to do that. If yours starts fermenting it will explode the jars because they are not designed for carbonation.

I set mine with sanitized foil.

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It is the mason jar lids but they're only halfway on. That way the CO2 can escape. I didn't have any air locks that will fit on the mason jars.

Ok, so this morning, day 3, I can see what appears to be little white bubbles floating on top of the wort. The bubbles aren't on the sides, they're floating in the middle so who knows. They definitely have a funky funky smell to them now.

We'll see. Also I'll take a picture when I get back home.

Sub'd for sure, I'd love to do this one day.

Just a heads up, there are thousands of yeast strains, and the one you want is saccharomyces cerevisiae. If you don't catch a good one here, KEEP TRYING! Worst case is one of those 3 will be mildly sour and you can add that yeast as a sour agent in your next beer with a repitch. "Locally Soured"

Aristotelian said:

it looks like you have capped your mason jars with lids. You don't want to do that. If yours starts fermenting it will explode the jars because they are not designed for carbonation.

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In my experience the lids will give way before the glass shatters, not that I'm saying anyone should test this.

subbed. Always interested in the weird and wild

You know, thinking about this, I didn't really give them a good stir to oxygenate them. I poured them into jars through a strainer to get the hop leaves out, and then just added the flowers.

You guys think that's sufficient? I'm a little worried to stir them now and introduce anymore oxygen since bad bugs thrive on oxygen too.

What do you guys suggest? Let them be for the time being?

Also, anyone who's interested in doing this, I highly suggest it. It literally cost me 5 dollars worth of dme (I didn't have dme and I literally only used a small portion of that 5 dollars worth so I'll have plenty to keep doing it and make starters) and like 8 bucks for the mason jars which came with like a dozen or whatever. Easy peasy, especially if I can try to do it, so can you.

Give it a shake. No harm in oxygen at this point as long as you aren't leaving it open to let fruit flies and such in there.

Honey Suckle
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Hedge flower believe it's Escallonia Iveyi. Missed a flower in this jar. Believe it or not, this one smells the funkiest!
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Rose/daisies
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Sorry for the crappy pictures, but hopefully you can get an idea. Not quite sure yet. Just going to let them ride. If I see mold start to pop up, I guess I'll try to get it out with a sterilized fork before it gets out of hand.

I would be willing to bet there was enough O2 on the flowers. I would LET IT RIDE myself...

Killer start man! Those are all good signs...

Cheers
Jay

mutedog said:

In my experience the lids will give way before the glass shatters, not that I'm saying anyone should test this.

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Oh, I've tested it, unintentionally, with mason jars containing harvested or ranched yeast, topped off with the saved beer. Even in the fridge they can pick up a bit of fermentation again. With the band screwed tight, first the lid starts to bulge, then 3 fold lines develop in a triangular shape, and where the lines meet at the edge, the crease gets sharper. Eventually gas will or should be able to escape, but it takes a bit effort. It looks like the glass is strong enough, and the lid will give out eventually.

I'd keep the bands loose enough so gas gets released well before the lids start to bulge. I've used 48oz plastic/PET mayonnaise jars for small test fermentations. Just kept the plastic screw lids on loosely.

Subscribed

Looking good @tactical-brewer I wouldn't bother with stirring/oxygenating at this point. Wait until you are stepping them up for that.

mutedog said:

Looking good @tactical-brewer I wouldn't bother with stirring/oxygenating at this point. Wait until you are stepping them up for that.

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Sweet! I'm gonna let them ride. Can't wait to see if I caught anything good! :rockin:

we have a local yeast guy, PhD in microbiology, consults at several breweries and started his own yeast company. only sells at 2 HBSs here in NoVA. I've used his yeast for 2 brews (his Pale Ale strain for a Bigfoot clone and a strain he harvested from a bottle of Basque cider for a apple wine) and have his German strain for a Grodziskie I plan to brew (if I ever get around to it). I may never go back to White Labs or Wyeast.

Jasper has been in the news several times, most notably for harvesting yeast for an All-Virginia beer and brewing a beer with yeast collected from a 35-million year old fossil (yeast itself was not 35-million years old, just the fossil it was collected from)

the best resource is his presentation on yeast, where he talks about how to go about collecting wild strains

hope this helps!

Is there any audio available for the presentation?

No audio. Sorry

Awesome I'll check them out tonight! I watched a podcast (?) with Brad smith and a couple out of Florida last night that have a microbrewery that harvested some wild yeast and had some bang up results.

All these success stories have me hoping for the best lol! [emoji106]🏻

IslandLizard said:

I'd keep the bands loose enough so gas gets released well before the lids start to bulge. I've used 48oz plastic/PET mayonnaise jars for small test fermentations. Just kept the plastic screw lids on loosely.

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I use 2 quart juice containers (like Welches, etc) for my starters. Same deal - just keep the lid loose. It works fantastic. At the end, I just toss the jug. Before this I used mason jars, and I was always challenged by headspace, spills, and getting good aeration. I definitely would not go back. I think mayo jars would work really well for this because it would be easier to get the flowers out, but the same principles apply.

Day 4. Funky funky smell has tapered. Somewhat of sweet floral hues with a bit of funk. Each minutely different but similar if any of that jargon makes sense.

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Barley_Bob said:

I use 2 quart juice containers (like Welches, etc) for my starters. Same deal - just keep the lid loose. It works fantastic. At the end, I just toss the jug. Before this I used mason jars, and I was always challenged by headspace, spills, and getting good aeration. I definitely would not go back. I think mayo jars would work really well for this because it would be easier to get the flowers out, but the same principles apply.

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Unless you have a good supply of jugs, they're easily cleaned with a good warm PBW soak and shake. No different really than a Better Bottle.

One of the best small batch fermentors I have is a gallon Gatorade or Ocean Spray jug, with the little plastic neck tab/handle. The plastic is unbelievably thick and strong, way overkill for a disposable container. As is so common in our super wasteful society, the cost of the container is more than the content it ever held. I'd take a dozen of those. Just wish they were 5 or 6 quart size...

IslandLizard said:

Unless you have a good supply of jugs, they're easily cleaned with a good warm PBW soak and shake. No different really than a Better Bottle.

One of the best small batch fermentors I have is a gallon Gatorade or Ocean Spray jug, with the little plastic neck tab/handle. The plastic is unbelievably thick and strong, way overkill for a disposable container. As is so common in our super wasteful society, the cost of the container is more than the content it ever held. I'd take a dozen of those. Just wish they were 5 or 6 quart size...

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Awesome idea, actually.

I have two little kids, and we have no trouble drinking as much juice as California growers can produce. I just toss the jugs I use in the recycling.

Tactical-Brewer is thinking this discussion is totally tangential to his thread. But no! This is useful information!

Next time I do this, or something similar (harvest yeast dregs from bottles of beer I want) I'll go the plastic bottle route for sure.

I haven't had any real issue with the mason jars so far at this point though. But, I can see now that I'm getting the swing of dme and doing small, yeast flavor profile, batches, a slightly larger fermentor would be beneficial.

Barley_Bob said:

Awesome idea, actually.

I have two little kids, and we have no trouble drinking as much juice as California growers can produce. I just toss the jugs I use in the recycling.

Tactical-Brewer is thinking this discussion is totally tangential to his thread. But no! This is useful information!

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So you do have a virtually unlimited supply coming in every week. That's great for brewing!

Tactical-Brewer said:

Next time I do this, or something similar (harvest yeast dregs from bottles of beer I want) I'll go the plastic bottle route for sure.

I haven't had any real issue with the mason jars so far at this point though. But, I can see now that I'm getting the swing of dme and doing small, yeast flavor profile, batches, a slightly larger fermentor would be beneficial.

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To refocus the thread, after our little tangent, although plastic containers can be used for propagating yeast, for some reason I still prefer to use glass, if there's a choice. Glass can be sterilized easier.

Tactical-Brewer said:

Day 4. Funky funky smell has tapered. Somewhat of sweet floral hues with a bit of funk. Each minutely different but similar if any of that jargon makes sense.
]

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You're an inspiration. What are you going to do if they all turn out? Propagate them separately or blend them?