n00b - this is what I am thinking of going with

Hey all,

Reviewing kits, equipment, process, tools, ingredients now for some time. First forum I've joined for home brewing and just want to get a bit of feedback to make sure I'm not off my rocker...

I've kicked around extract vs. partial vs ag for a while now. I know the extract is the easiest to start with, but the on-going recipe and ingredients cost much more depending on where you get them from.

That said, I think I am going to just jump in head first with all grain.

As for equipment here's what I'm thinking:

Midwest has a decent starter kit right now for a good price (http://www.midwestsupplies.com/platinum-pro-beer-brewing-starter-kit.html) that comes with a 5-gallong kettle, buckets, bottler, auto-siphon and such. Mainly looking at this for the easy of getting fermentation, bottling, etc. from the get go in one purchase.

I have a 5-gallon igloo water cooler already on-hand I can convert to a MLT and either make or buy a false bottom or other system for lautering/sparging..

Thinking of a 36-quart kettle w/ propane burner for boiling wort and strike water and using the 5-gallon kettle from the kit for sparging. Will likely be doing batch sparging until I can make a sparge arm and hook up a flow system for that.

Keeping it to 5-gallon batches for the foreseeable future as it would seem to likely work best with the area I have to brew, ferment and store bottles at this time.

I've been reading quite a bit on recipes - measuring the temps during brewing, the original gravity, final gravity and even done some on water condition and how it changes the beer profile. Also been researching the different fermentables and hops to get an idea of what they may/may not impart, but still tons to learn.

So what do you all think? Seem okay to jump right to all-grain? Does the equipment and such I've put together seem a good starting point?

Thanks in advance for any insight or thoughts!

Hi Suckerpunch,
From one n00b to another, I say do it. I started all grain from my first batch (a whole 2 batches ago) and found it quite painless--actually a lot of fun. I've made two delicious beers with a pretty basic all-grain set up (pretty similar to that $99 kit). When gathering equipment, I focused on those items that I knew would make life way easier on brew and bottle day (push pump bottle sanitizer, bottle tree, autosiphon, bottling wand), but I could have made good beer even without those things. Someone compared brewing all grain to following a complicated recipe (coq au vin, for example), which I think is apt. Nothing to fear, except the unbearable anticipation once your batch is in the fermentor. Have fun!

suckerpunchltd said:

Hey all,

Reviewing kits, equipment, process, tools, ingredients now for some time. First forum I've joined for home brewing and just want to get a bit of feedback to make sure I'm not off my rocker...

I've kicked around extract vs. partial vs ag for a while now. I know the extract is the easiest to start with, but the on-going recipe and ingredients cost much more depending on where you get them from.

That said, I think I am going to just jump in head first with all grain.

As for equipment here's what I'm thinking:

Midwest has a decent starter kit right now for a good price (http://www.midwestsupplies.com/platinum-pro-beer-brewing-starter-kit.html) that comes with a 5-gallong kettle, buckets, bottler, auto-siphon and such. Mainly looking at this for the easy of getting fermentation, bottling, etc. from the get go in one purchase.

I have a 5-gallon igloo water cooler already on-hand I can convert to a MLT and either make or buy a false bottom or other system for lautering/sparging..

Thinking of a 36-quart kettle w/ propane burner for boiling wort and strike water and using the 5-gallon kettle from the kit for sparging. Will likely be doing batch sparging until I can make a sparge arm and hook up a flow system for that.

Keeping it to 5-gallon batches for the foreseeable future as it would seem to likely work best with the area I have to brew, ferment and store bottles at this time.

I've been reading quite a bit on recipes - measuring the temps during brewing, the original gravity, final gravity and even done some on water condition and how it changes the beer profile. Also been researching the different fermentables and hops to get an idea of what they may/may not impart, but still tons to learn.

So what do you all think? Seem okay to jump right to all-grain? Does the equipment and such I've put together seem a good starting point?

Thanks in advance for any insight or thoughts!

Click to expand...

You are going to need a bigger kettle if you want to do all grain and actually do full boils. Get at least a 10 gallon pot, and 15 gallon would be better. If you need to save money, Staples has cheap thick-walled aluminum kettles that won't set you back more than $50 including the lid, or you could look online for used pots.

What is your plan for chilling your wort? Are you going to go no-chill, or are you going to get a chiller? Sitting 5 gallons of boiling wort in ice water doesn't cool that quickly, so an immersion chiller is a good idea to look into.

The 5 gallon cooler will work, but you will have a limited grain amount you can use. Most people doing 5 gallon batches seem to go with a 10 gallon cooler, so they can brew bigger beers. If you want to save money, you can always go with brew in a bag, and you don't have to worry about coolers, false bottoms, etc.

The buckets in that kit look good, looks like it has the supplies you need for bottling as well. The one thing you will want is some Star San for sanitizing. Some people soak everything in 5 gallons of it at a time, while others, including myself, just have a spray bottle full to sanitize things. Either way, the cleanser included in that kit is for cleaning, not sanitizing, so you will want a sanitizer as well. Star San is great because it is no rinse, just get it wet, and use your equipment.

Welcome to the forum, and let us know what other questions you have!

I started with 1 gallon extract kits-brewed two and got bored so upgraded to a 10 gallon kettle to brew 3 gallon BIAB batches. I eventually plan on brewing 5 gallon batches next year. The 1 gallon batches were intended to be a way to fine tune my process. Still fine tuning all aspects but that's part of the fun.

I'm not sure if a 5 gallon kettle will be big enough for what you want. Might want to try and find a 10 gallon kettle. CHeck out http://spikebrewing.com/collections/10-gallon-stainless-kettles and http://www.cobrewingsystems.com/products/brew-kettle.
Spike just had a 25% off sale on 10 gallon kettles. You might want to try and email them and see if he would honor that discount as they were reducing stock for their new kettle version.

Good luck and enjoy.
Cheers!

Sounds like you have done as much research as you can. At this point there is nothing to do but go for it and start experimenting.

I am also relatively new and I have been SHOCKED at how easy it is to make micro-brew quality beer.

One thing I would add to your setup right away is a hydrometer and test cylinder. Especially early on, you are going to want to make sure you are hitting your numbers, calculate your efficiency, etc. If something is off, you need to know where in the process it is happening. The only way to do that is with some basic data.

I just started 3 week ago. I had a 8.75 gal pot/turkey fryer. I got a same kit but a 5 gal glass carboy instead of a pot. Brewed a 5 gal extract no problem.

The next week I went straight to BIAB with a 5 gal AG Hefe. It was easier than extract. I can't fit 7.5 gal and full BIAB so I sparge with 2.5 gal. I already had the turkey fryer so the next item I buy will be a 12.5 to 15 gal pot and call it done on brewing equipment.

I also had an old dorm fridge. It now has 2-5 gal kegs of beer on picnic taps. The next items I will buy is perlicks and call it done on serving equipment.

Just picked a 5 AG Hefe and PA to do the next couple weeks as fermenters free up. AG kits are 20-25 bucks and I save yeast cakes. Crap I need to get more ferment buckets!


Stick with the advice above and get a bigger pot. Good luck and don't get overwhelmed.

theseeker4 said:

You are going to need a bigger kettle if you want to do all grain and actually do full boils. Get at least a 10 gallon pot, and 15 gallon would be better. If you need to save money, Staples has cheap thick-walled aluminum kettles that won't set you back more than $50 including the lid, or you could look online for used pots.

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Ya the kit has the 5-gallon which I figured would work for sparge water or doing smaller extract batches should I decide to. The 36qt is 9 gallon and I planned on getting that w/ propane burner, but if 10 is better I will just go with the 40qt.

theseeker4 said:

What is your plan for chilling your wort? Are you going to go no-chill, or are you going to get a chiller? Sitting 5 gallons of boiling wort in ice water doesn't cool that quickly, so an immersion chiller is a good idea to look into.

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That's something I am still deciding. The available ones are pricey and given mechanical aptitude figured I could make a 3/8" immersion cooler.

theseeker4 said:

The 5 gallon cooler will work, but you will have a limited grain amount you can use. Most people doing 5 gallon batches seem to go with a 10 gallon cooler, so they can brew bigger beers. If you want to save money, you can always go with brew in a bag, and you don't have to worry about coolers, false bottoms, etc.

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Gotcha on that, I plan on doing some porters, stouts and higher ABV at times so might double check - I think it's 5 gallon but might be 10, if it's 10 no brainer, if not then I will pick up a 10, another 5 and split it or do brew in bag to start.

Aristotelian said:

One thing I would add to your setup right away is a hydrometer and test cylinder. Especially early on, you are going to want to make sure you are hitting your numbers, calculate your efficiency, etc. If something is off, you need to know where in the process it is happening. The only way to do that is with some basic data.

Click to expand...

Ah, yes, I didn't notice that kit didn't include the hydrometer and cylinder. Also noticed no thermometers are in it either, so they've been added to the list.

theseeker4 said:

You are going to need a bigger kettle if you want to do all grain and actually do full boils. Get at least a 10 gallon pot, and 15 gallon would be better. If you need to save money, Staples has cheap thick-walled aluminum kettles that won't set you back more than $50 including the lid, or you could look online for used pots.

Click to expand...

Supera AP-40 - 40qt 4.7mm thick wall aluminum. $33, plus like $13 for the lid.

As I understand these need "seasoned" or oxided by boiling water and letting it set to darken ti before brewing, correct?

If you want to start bare bones, you could do split boils on the stove top (2 x 5 gallon or smaller pots) while collecting your brewhouse arsenal. Just split the runnings and hops 50/50 and combine in the fermentor after the chill. This would eliminate the immediate need for a giant pot, propane burner and wort chiller (you CAN chill 2 smaller pots in an ice bath, unlike one giant pot). Basically you could get another stock pot and be brewing by sundown tomorrow. That's what I did, and I'm drinking my own (yummy) beer tonight; just sayin.

suckerpunchltd said:

Supera AP-40 - 40qt 4.7mm thick wall aluminum. $33, plus like $13 for the lid.

As I understand these need "seasoned" or oxided by boiling water and letting it set to darken ti before brewing, correct?

Click to expand...

Yep, I just boiled water in it with the lid on for about a half hour. It comes with instructions to season with oil, but I ignored that and just boiled the water, darkened up nicely.

Did my first all grain in a 5 gallon igloo with a home made copper manifold. 3 gallon chocolate cherry Porter that turned out exactly how my wife wanted it.
I've got a 10 gallon now after that first experience.
If you're going to do 5 gallon batches with mid to high gravity you'll need more capacity.
A 9 gallon kettle will probably get you by, but 10 or 15 is gonna make your life easier long term.
Hydrometer and sample tube are not optional.
2 kettles is not optional.
All grain, in my relatively limited experience, is no more difficult than extract, just a bit more time and a few more steps.
I'd definitely go for it, but be sure you have the essentials and don't buy something you're just gonna replace with something bigger

Thanks for all the replies!

I did find out my igloo is actually a 10-gallon, not a 5 like I thought :rocking: and I've had it for a while just sitting in the basement - clean inside without scratches.

So I think with that said, adding the 10-gallon aluminum kettle 'to go along with the kit's included 5-gallon should give me a good start kettle wise (I have several other 2-4 gallon kettles already for other uses I can use if need be as well) for boiling and sparging. I will add in the hydrometer and tube for testing gravity, thermometers for water temp/fermentation temp and the sanitizer I should be ready to rock this.

Getting excited now.

Fellow noob here. I went extract -> partial mash -> BIAB. The one thing I'd suggest is maybe start out with BIAB and forgo the cooler/mash tun. If you're doing 5 gallon batches I'd get a bigger pot (say 15 gallons).

Oh two more things not in the kit:

1. StarSan sanitizer
2. Pack of Camden tablets (for removing chlorine/chloramine)

Good luck!

I've been bashed many times for suggesting folks go directly to AG instead of doing the costly and inevitable switches from extract up to AG.
I am old hat to brewing but fairly new to BIAB and I now suggest give it a go. Cheap to set up, you need one vessel, one bag, pretty much it. Great way to learn in order to make educated decisions on future directions

To add to what everyone else has mentioned, this kit comes with a racking tube not an auto-siphon. Up to you if you want to add one or not. The bottling wand is pretty worthless IMO. Grab one with a spring tip and save yourself some trouble and a little spilled beer

I bought the same kit for Father's Day. I've since added an immersion chiller, hydrometer and tube, auto-siphon, spring tip bottling wand, star-san, PBW, temp strips, and a few extra buckets.

A chiller is a nice option, but so is a grain mill. A chiller speeds up the brewing process and allows you to pitch yeast right away. A mill will help you dial in your crush and might save you a couple dollars per batch in grain.

Good luck! AG is not hard. Just a little bit of figuring your water and grain amounts. After that it's all the same.

So just picked up a King Kooker 50-quart aluminum kettle with burner for $107 (actually less because I had overstock rewards and eBates cash back to use so final cost will be under $90) - http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garde...aming-Cooker/5846988/product.html?searchidx=2

Have a 10-gallon igloo cooler I'm working out either false bottom or the stainless steel hose or the copper pipe manifold for draining during sparging.

So I need the starter kit - actually looking at one of the other kits that has the primary, secondary and comes with the auto-siphon, hydrometer etc.

I think I've settled on this starter kit: http://www.homebrewing.org/Beginning-Homebrew-Kit-Upgrade-2-_p_1692.html

Comes with primary bucket, plastic carboy, bottling bucket and hydrometer/tube, auto siphon a cleaning brushes among other things I think should fit just fine using the 12.5 gallon kettle and burner combo with a 10-gallon water cooler for mash tun. I have a spare 5 gallon square cooler for the hot liquor tank so I think I'm set now.

Hi,
Are you bottling? If so, I recommend a bottling tree and one of these things: http://cdn.nexternal.com/hombre/images/sanitizer-injector.jpg which sits on top of the tree like a Christmas star. Helps makes bottling day much more fluid.

If this is not too late, I quickly found that my all grain day was about the same amount of time regardless of batch size. I upgraded to a 10 gallon setup, and gave my old brew pot away. Something to think about.

One thought, looking over your blog re your equipment decisions:

5 Gallon Plastic Carboy (I may not secondary ferment every batch but like the option to do so)
Carboy Brush (How else to clean a huge plastic jug?)

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I'm fairly sure I've read the carboy brushes are only really intended for cleaning GLASS carboys. They can scratch plastic ones.

KPBrews said:

One thought, looking over your blog re your equipment decisions:



I'm fairly sure I've read the carboy brushes are only really intended for cleaning GLASS carboys. They can scratch plastic ones.

Click to expand...

Indeed, I did read that as well. All is well as the brush will not be used.

Ok, so I ordered up an all grain Pumpkin Ale from AIH, got the stuff to convert the 10 gallon cooler I had on hand to a mash tun this weekend (ball valve, fittings and a stainless bazooka style hose from a water heater hose DIY instead of a false bottom), got a 12.5 gallon kettle & burner (as mentioned earlier), hoses, fixtures, and such.

I just placed the order for the fermenting equipment - going with a mix on the kits I mentioned earlier - it has the standard 6.5 gal primary with 6.5 gal bottling bucket and I added a 5 gal plastic secondary. Also has all the test equip (hydro, thermo etc), auto-siphon, bottling wand, capper, added star san to the mix as well. (ordering separately save me about $15, just FYI).

I am picking up some copper tubing to do a DIY wort chiller this week - I will be doing a submersible aquarium type pump setup in an ice bath in a secondary cooler I have already on hand over using a garden hose as it's getting to be winter here soon in Colorado and hoses won't be connected much longer. Figure since I make motorcycle parts in my spare time, bending some tubing and attaching fittings will be cake walk. Looking at a 100-150 GPH pump mainly because it has the same diameter outlet as the tubing I have and should move enough water to cool effectively (standard garden hose is about 60-80GPH at tap temp, I figure 100GPH+ at less than tap temp should work great).

I'm doing batch sparging to start, so no sparge arm or the like just yet (I will likely DIY one in the coming months after a few batches so I know better the flow and what I am actually doing) which means I can use existing 2-3 gallon kettles to heat the sparge water on the stove (my garage where I will be brewing is connected right off the kitchen to make it easier, and the stands I have are right by the door for doing a gravity feed system. I figure I can also use the main propane burner and/or the burner on my grill to heat the sparge water if need be) and just go with it for now - eventually I want to get a 5 gal kettle and another dedicated cooler for a HLT (read that as a cheap on-sale cooler converted to ball valved setup) and fly sparge.

I have about 6 cases empty, cleaned bottles (more than enough) ready for sanitizing and filling when it's time.

All total, I will end up with about $200 in equipment costs for all grain brewing startup system, since I had the 10 gallon cooler for a mash tun already; considering my kettle and burner make up about half that after shipping, figure that's a good startup cost. The fermenting kit and extras are running me about $90 and the fittings, valves and such I actually have to buy that I don't have on hand about another $10-20.

I should be brewing next weekend if all goes as planned, if not (read that as if I didn't do my work after hours to build stuff) then the weekend after.

I'm getting excited for this journey and am ready to brew and have some tasty ale for the holidays.

one thing i didn't see from the starter kit, is the bottle filler attachment for the autosiphon, that one is definately worth the few dollars it costs.

Kharnynb said:

one thing i didn't see from the starter kit, is the bottle filler attachment for the autosiphon, that one is definately worth the few dollars it costs.

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Since I am mixing starter kits in a way, I have a bottle filler attachment to make bottling day go easier add in with the supply order I placed, which should be here Wednesday.

Seasoned my aluminum kettle this evening by boiling about 3" of water for about an hour, definitely oxidized and changed color.

Found out I need a few different parts for the mash tun as I mis-gauged the size of o rings and washers when at the hardware store buying from memory.

Got my grain kit in the mail today and the rest of my equipment is scheduled for Wednesday, so I should be brewing on Halloween...and a pumpkin ale to start!

Finished my mash tun build this evening in anticipation of brewing tomorrow.

Here's some pics of the project:

Made my wort chiller tonight as well. Could have benefited from filling the copper tubing with some table salt first to avoid kinking after about half of it was bent around my coffee can to get a decent diameter coil. Using salt also would have allowed me to get a tight enough bend to take the bottom feed up through the middle rather than outside the coil. Not sure if that will impact performance or not. I used some of the black rubber hose from the discarded water heater hose on my mash tun build, instead of hose clamps, to hold the copper together up top out of the wort.

I have picked up a 160+ gallon-per-hour waterfall pump from Harbor Freight to pump the water from a spare cooler through the coils - I plan on running about 10-15 minutes with cold water then add ice to chill once the recirculation has started warming the cooler water. I am hoping on achieving about 20-30 minute cooling time for 5.5-6 gallon wort, which will be my fermenting amount on average given the types of beer I plan to brew.

Here's the pics:

First batch has been brewed and is in the primary fermenter as I type this. Now the waiting game begins.

I didn't quite hit my numbers per the recipe kit I used. OG was supposed to be 1.044 and I came in around 1.040-1.041. While doing the boil the wind picked up so I had to bump the heat to maintain boil. I think due to this I had a higher loss than anticipated and ended with 5 gallons into the primary rather than the 5.5 Gallons I had figured I would end with. This may have contributed to the slightly lower number.

The process was relatively simple. I heated 1 quart water per pound of grain per the instructions that came with the recipe kit, to 180 and filled the mash tun with it. At that point I let it rest until reaching 170 and dough in took place lowering the temp to about 153-155 which was within the recipe's target range of 149-156 After about 65-70 minutes I began the vorlauf. Sparging was done with 22 quarts of 200 degree water per the kit instructions in kind of a fly method - I opened up the ball valve and got the flow going and continuously poured water through a colander to keep about 1-1 1/2" water on top of the grain during sparging. This took about an hour.

The boil was uneventful and the 12.5 gallon kettle was more than enough for this batch. I added the .5oz northern Brewer hops at the start of the boil and did an Irish moss tablet for last 15 minutes and pumpkin spice last 5 minutes.

The home made wort chiller worked wonderfully cooling the wort to about 75 degrees in about 20-25 minutes. I used cold water in a cooler with a pond pump to circulate through the coils. I did dump/add new cold water once and did about 3lbs ice towards the end to finish it off.

After cooling it went into the sanitized primary and the dry Nottingham yeast was pitched after some aeration. I did not rehydrate the yeast as it seems it can be good either way with this particular one. My temp at pitch was right around 72-73 degrees so after moving the primary to the basement I did a cold towel wrap to assist in lowering it more into the target range for the yeast. Our ambient temp in the basement is usually right about 62-63 year round so hoping that should be good with some towel wraps as needed.

In retrospect, I should have sparged with 24 quarts instead of 22 and I would have hit my volume goals and maybe gotten closer to my target numbers in doing so. I also may add ice a bit earlier in the cooling process and cool it to a lower temp for pitching...for some reason I thought the temp should be between 75-80 not 65-70 so I was a little high at pitch time, but hoping it works out.

I can also see why doing 10 gallon batches would make sense as it would not be much more work to double, so I may do that once I have a couple sessions under my belt and know how well I brewed them so I don't waste 10 gallons. I think my kettle should handle 11-11.5 full boil, especially if I add in some anti foam drops.

Checked in on the brew, have bubbling in the air lock and it smells like a pumpkin spice beer; temp is right around 66-67 degrees.

suckerpunchltd said:

I didn't quite hit my numbers per the recipe kit I used. OG was supposed to be 1.044 and I came in around 1.040-1.041. While doing the boil the wind picked up so I had to bump the heat to maintain boil. I think due to this I had a higher loss than anticipated and ended with 5 gallons into the primary rather than the 5.5 Gallons I had figured I would end with. This may have contributed to the slightly lower number.

Click to expand...

Actually boiling more off should have concentrated it more raising the number. So my logic on the previous statement appears to be wrong.

Brewed 11/1, checked FG today an sitting at 1.010, target was 1.012. Going to wait another 2-3 days, which will put me right at 7 days in primary if still at 1.010 then I will bottle it. Tasted the sample I pulled for testing - it's pretty good actually, can't wait until it's carb'd and cold, I think it's going to be tasty for my first brew.

Bottled on 11/8, 7 days primary, FG was still at 1.010. Bottles are conditioning now, will try one in about week or two and see how they are progressing.

Son-in-law who assisted in the brewing and bottling came over tonight so I put a few of these in the fridge for us to sample. Wow! This stuff is really tasty, even SWMBO likes it. Though it's not quite what I would call fully carbonated, it does have a good amount and I can't wait a week until it's even more so carbonated and settled. I would remake this one for sure.