WY5151 Have you used it?

I bought a packet of 5151 recently..........not realizing that it had lacto as well as Brett........ Anybody here used it? I plan on doing a brew with this and am not sure how much sourness to expect. I really wasn't wanting to do a sour.........but oh well!


I'm thinking of brewing a very pale ale and mashing around 160F, probably with two row only, and hopped with Hallertau or Tettenanger to an IBU of around 10.......... About as simple a brew as possible................ I might throw in just a smidge of CR60........ The lightest crystal I have on hand. I may dry hop or whirlpool with something fruity....... I'm thinking dry hop as the fermentation time may be fairly long.

I'll probably do it this weekend......... suggestions welcome


H.W.

I didn't realize it had lacto in it either...even from Wyeast's description, I don't see that... (I mainly say this because I tossed a pack of it into a beer I made recently, and if there is lacto hiding in there, I'd like to know!)


Wyeast 5151-PC Brettanomyces claussenii
Beer Styles: Lambics, Geuze, Fruit Lambic, Flanders Red Ale
Profile: Isolated from English stock ale, this wild yeast produces a mild “Brett” character with overtones of tropical fruit and pineapple. B. clausenii can be used as a primary strain; however it is typically inoculated in conjunction with other yeasts and lactic acid bacteria. A pellicle may develop in bottles or casks during conditioning.

Alc. Tolerance 12% ABV
Flocculation low
Attenuation 80%
Temp. Range 60-75°F (15-24°C)

JordanKnudson said:

I didn't realize it had lacto in it either...even from Wyeast's description, I don't see that... (I mainly say this because I tossed a pack of it into a beer I made recently, and if there is lacto hiding in there, I'd like to know!)


Wyeast 5151-PC Brettanomyces claussenii
Beer Styles: Lambics, Geuze, Fruit Lambic, Flanders Red Ale
Profile: Isolated from English stock ale, this wild yeast produces a mild “Brett” character with overtones of tropical fruit and pineapple. B. clausenii can be used as a primary strain; however it is typically inoculated in conjunction with other yeasts and lactic acid bacteria. A pellicle may develop in bottles or casks during conditioning.

Alc. Tolerance 12% ABV
Flocculation low
Attenuation 80%
Temp. Range 60-75°F (15-24°C)

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From the description on the packet:

"Instructions for Brettanomyces and Lactic acid bacteria cultures"

I assumed from that line, that this was a Brett and lacto culture...... Perhaps it's just general instructions......... maybe I'm drawing the wrong conclusion..... Nothing anywhere else mentions lacto.......... That changes the complexion of things considerably.


H.W.

I don't think that means that the Brett claussenii contains lactobacillus. "Brett and Lactic acid bacteria cultures" is just an umbrella term for the non-Saccharomyces organisms that we use/they sell. It would include all strains of Brett, lactobacillus, and pediococcus (which is also a lactic acid bacteria culture). I think they are simply printing general instructions to be used for any of those cultures that you can buy from them.

I've been reading a bit more on Brett, and come to the conclusion that there appears to be good reason to pitch in secondary instead of primary...... a common practice that I'd wondered about. Apparently the flavors the brett produces when pitched in secondary are more pronounced due to both stress and precursors. With that in mind, my whole program has changed. I sort of "copy" my Imperial Saison of yesterday, pitching from top crop of the current fermentation, and pitch brett after the krausen has fallen, setting that fermenter (my lager fermenter) aside for about 4 months. The August temps should be excellent for this, and I'll let the temp float with ambient... Temperature stress should have a positive effect on flavor development.


H.W.

Sounds like a plan. I generally take a set-it-and-forget-it attitude with my Brett fermentations, since Brett (as a secondary strain) is a slow worker. I typically check back in after 5-6 months and see how everything is coming along. By then it has usually dropped the gravity enough that I'm comfortable with bottling.

Some Brett strains are good as primary strains, too, and Claussenii is actually one of those. However, it won't produce much funky brett character as a primary strain. So you will have a fun experiment on your hands -- the same beer fermented with brett-C as a primary strain and separately as a secondary strain! It will be interesting to hear what you think of the comparison.

I decided to brew my with my Brett C (5151) today, the plan is to use Belle Saison for primary and add the 5151 to the secondary.......... My plan is to run a typical primary at high ambient temp, and when the visible fermentation ceases, pitch the brett (no starter). Run secondary for a week, then bottle with no priming sugar......... Leave it for about 3 months and see what I've got....... If it's flat, I'll transfer it to Tap-a-Draft and force carbonate.

What I think I should have done is mash at 160, run primary normally, and about 4 or 5 days of secondary, pitched the Brett, and bottled a few days later with no bottling sugar.

The thinking is that the Brett should be able to feed on the sugars the Belle Saison can't digest........ also it should stress the Brett a bit giving me more of the desired flavor profile........ Hindsight!


H.W.

Owly055 said:

What I think I should have done is mash at 160, run primary normally, and about 4 or 5 days of secondary, pitched the Brett, and bottled a few days later with no bottling sugar.

The thinking is that the Brett should be able to feed on the sugars the Belle Saison can't digest........ also it should stress the Brett a bit giving me more of the desired flavor profile........ Hindsight!

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You're right about the Brett eating complex sugars and starch that good ol' Sacc can't. Bottling without priming sugar could work well. I would just worry because you don't know how many points the Brett is going to drop the gravity in the bottles, so it could be perfect, or bottle bombs. Brett can get your FG down pretty stinkin' low. I prefer to let it ferment out fully in the carboy, and the bottle per the usual method. I do use separate plastic equipment for any Brett/sour beers that I make, just so I don't get an infection in the bottle.

JordanKnudson said:

You're right about the Brett eating complex sugars and starch that good ol' Sacc can't. Bottling without priming sugar could work well. I would just worry because you don't know how many points the Brett is going to drop the gravity in the bottles, so it could be perfect, or bottle bombs. Brett can get your FG down pretty stinkin' low. I prefer to let it ferment out fully in the carboy, and the bottle per the usual method. I do use separate plastic equipment for any Brett/sour beers that I make, just so I don't get an infection in the bottle.

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I just plugged the yeast into Brewer's Friend instead of using the default.......... With the "default" my expected ABV is 7.19%, With Brett C it's 8.63% That's a difference of 1.44%.... A LOT. One of the reasons for bottling is that it has been recommended to ferment Brett under pressure.

I use EzCap swing top bottles only....... they are quite strong, rated for well over 100 psi. That said, if I use the 1L bottles, I can safety them easily so they will vent at 30 psi......all it takes is a #64 rubber band stretched under the bottom of the bottle, with a half hitch around the bail. You don't snap the bail over center. The link below shows the setup.

H.W.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xm38nhf7drbiys6/IMG_20131231_132531.JPG?dl=0

That's a really cool trick!

I still prefer to finish fermentation before bottling. Seems like you could get an overcarbed beer even if the bottles hold. Brett beers work best when you play the patience game. If I want a quick turnaround, I do a low grav wort with 3711. Still, if it works for you and you can't wait, go for it. I don't mean to tell you that my way is the *only* way. It's just the one that I prefer. I'm still psyched to hear how your beer comes out.

JordanKnudson said:

That's a really cool trick!

I still prefer to finish fermentation before bottling. Seems like you could get an overcarbed beer even if the bottles hold. Brett beers work best when you play the patience game. If I want a quick turnaround, I do a low grav wort with 3711. Still, if it works for you and you can't wait, go for it. I don't mean to tell you that my way is the *only* way. It's just the one that I prefer. I'm still psyched to hear how your beer comes out.

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I'm excited about it........... I'll probably sample at intervals...... I'll sample the first for my 60th birthday........ How's that for patience ;-) Unfortunately it's exactly 3 months away ;-( ............ My first foray into brewing was 46 years ago, and was disappointing due to the non-availability of materials in those days. It was actually illegal to brew beer at home back then.......... and for a 14 year old , doubly so. The "head of household" could brew up to 200 gallons of wine a year for household consumption........ but not beer. I wonder if Barley Wine fell into that category?? Now you can grow pot at home if you have a "card" certifying you as a "medical marijuana user".......... I can't imagine why? Smoking is repulsive to me....... I wonder if anybody has brewed a THC infused beer yet........ I expect they have.


H.W.

Owly055 said:

I'm excited about it........... I'll probably sample at intervals...... I'll sample the first for my 60th birthday........ How's that for patience ;-) Unfortunately it's exactly 3 months away ;-( ............ My first foray into brewing was 46 years ago, and was disappointing due to the non-availability of materials in those days. It was actually illegal to brew beer at home back then.......... and for a 14 year old , doubly so. The "head of household" could brew up to 200 gallons of wine a year for household consumption........ but not beer. I wonder if Barley Wine fell into that category?? Now you can grow pot at home if you have a "card" certifying you as a "medical marijuana user".......... I can't imagine why? Smoking is repulsive to me....... I wonder if anybody has brewed a THC infused beer yet........ I expect they have.


H.W.

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Happy early birthday! And as for THC infused beer, there is sure to be at least one thread somewhere on this site where someone did it! That's just homebrewers for ya

Just pitched the brett C (5151) a few minutes ago.......... Primary went like gangbusters, the Belle Saison yeast pitch was pretty heavy, and it was pitched at close to 90F Yesterday AM things were settling out and floculating and visible signs of fermentation had ceased. The primary pretty much ran it's course in 2 days!! I've decided to let it go until next weekend, then put it in cold crash to clear it as much as possible and bottle it in "safety bottles" as per the link in the previous post...........

H.W.