Making vinegar from beer

A year ago ... or thereabouts, I was given several kegs of beer that just wasn't selling, by my local micro brewery........... We have a relationship. I bring him Kombucha 5 gallons at a time and he kegs it for "in house" use and free distribution, he supplies me with malted grains at bulk cost, etc. I just gave him a new refractometer with a scale that I felt would work better for him... and on and on and on. At first I distilled all the "surplus" beer in to whiskey.......but we're not suppose to talk about this here, so forget I mentioned it. I don't personally own a still, but a good friend and neighbor (who has moved now) did. On a whim I cultured some of the beer and made vinegar out of it by introducing the sediment from a bottle of unpasteurized vinegar. It was an absolute HIT........... and is in high demand as a condiment with the food he serves. He now has a 5 gallon brew bucket with vinegar brewing in it all the time and can hardly keep up with demand. It is an excellent product. The hops that give the beer it's character also lend a wonderful (but subtle) character to the vinegar.

My feeling is that there is another potential business here. There is a wide variety of beers available, from the punkin ale I originally made vinegar from, to IPA, to Porter, to his most recent and truly awesome product ......... a latte stout, and countless others. Each would make it's own unique vinegar, but a 3 or 4 month brewing time makes it impractical. However there is the fast process, involving aeration and trickling the "mash" over wood shavings, that can produce a product in as little as 3 or 4 days.

Imagine specialty "craft vinegar" as a byproduct of a microbrewery....... a second income stream. The product sold in growlers and flip top bottles..... 5 gallons out of a brew on a periodic basis as a specialty product, or even a brew with spices, etc, made specifically for vinegar. Competition is putting a "hurt" on my friend, a second microbrewery in a town of 5K, backed by some serious money, is NOT making it easy for him. Loyal customers and good products don't hurt, but bank notes, wages, and other overhead do not make it easy.

I see a line of "craft vinegar" being sold to local chefs, and various other endeavors , making the difference. I see local chefs buying his "craft vinegar" as a direction to head, as a sideline. I've also proposed the idea of making kombucha "in house" so he can sell it. Kombucha is dirt cheap to manufacture. In 5 gallons I have 5 cups of sugar, 20 tea bags, and typically about a pound of ginger and a few other spices, and it can sell for the same price as beer! ............ do the math!! The problem is convincing him to branch out.

It's a "no brainer" to me... the Kombucha is a winner, the vinegar is not so lucrative, but get's your name out there, and capitalizes on what otherwise might be a "waste" product. it's also a product that could see wide distribution as a sideline business.

I'm a guy who hasn't had a job since 1980........I'm no business genius..... or I'd be rich. But I do know how to capitalize on my knowledge and experience. How many people do you know who haven't had a job in 35 years?



H.W.

I thought it might be cool to brew a small batch to turn into malt vinegar. I love the stuff on fish-n-chips! Or just to drizzle on my fries.:rockin:

unionrdr said:

I thought it might be cool to brew a small batch to turn into malt vinegar. I love the stuff on fish-n-chips! Or just to drizzle on my fries.:rockin:

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From my reading, 6% to 12% is the optimal range of alcohol content for vinegar making, 8% being pretty ideal. If I were brewing specifically for vinegar, I'd probably brew pretty dark, using a fair amount of dark crystal for richness of flavor.

Hops don't seem to come through strongly, but then we haven't done any highly hopped beers. I'm thinking that dry hopping the finished vinegar might be an interesting twist. I'm wondering about the preservative characteristics of hops interfering with the acetobacter's ability to make vinegar. Dry hopping with a very nice aroma hop might be nice. The hop has a pretty good challenge to stand out in vinegar.

You've put me in mind to tray dry hopping some small quantities of cheap distilled white vinegar just to see what works and what doesn't. Considering the fact that I put things like thyme, garlic, onion, etc into vinegar for long periods of time to make flavored vinegar for oil and vinegar salad dressing, hops should offer a noticeable contribution. Freshly picked green hop cones floating in a bottle of vinegar would even be attractive.

Just a bit of trivia.... distilled white vinegar is NOT distilled, but made from diluted distilled neutral grain spirits.
H.W.

I've kicked around in the outdoor market in Vienna Austria. There is a craft vinegar shop there that appears to make really good money off their products. They must have 50 different types..... all aged in wooden casks. Awesome flavors and they are expensive! Their product is a concentrate that they sell in like 1 1/2 oz bottles.

Dry hopping might be interesting if it does indeed work? Never made vinegar, but I'm thinking of putting together a 1 gallon set up to try it.

Please keep us posted.

I make my own cider vinegar from time to time and love it. I've thought about malt vinegar but haven't done it yet. I'm wondering how using older forgotten about grain would be. I don't imagine that commercial malt vinegar uses fresh malt.

We end up making a beer once in awhile that we don't really like......not usually a "dumper", but it just doesn't quite hit the spot. This is an ideal candidate for making vinegar.

What other left over alcoholic beverages to you have? Wait!! don't dump that wine, put it in your vinegar barrel..............


H.W.

I'll have to do some research first while I gather up the equipment to dedicate to vinegar production. I think one gallon batches would be plenty. Then some kind of resealable bottles. I'm thinking something like a brown ale or Cooper's english bitter would work nicely. The Cooper's bitter makes a great mop sauce or injector sauce. So maybe malt vinegar as well?

unionrdr said:

I'll have to do some research first while I gather up the equipment to dedicate to vinegar production. I think one gallon batches would be plenty. Then some kind of resealable bottles. I'm thinking something like a brown ale or Cooper's english bitter would work nicely. The Cooper's bitter makes a great mop sauce or injector sauce. So maybe malt vinegar as well?

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Equipment??? Just get a gallon mayo jug from the local cafe........... there is no "equipment" other than that. I used coffee filters to filter the vinegar. An ice tea jug with a spigot would be a nice way to go, and if you want to get fancy, a cute little oak barrel. My first go around was with a couple of growlers worth of beer in a gallon plastic jar. It didn't hold all the beer, but I put in what I could with the starter vinegar. It should be in a warm place.


H.W.

I use brown plastic gallon molasses jugs. I have one freed up right now and a little older malt. This would be a good side project very soon. I have to do a few brews first to get the dust out of the pipeline.

So just pouring some vinegar in the wort (or fermented beer?) causes it to turn to vinegar?

unionrdr said:

So just pouring some vinegar in the wort (or fermented beer?) causes it to turn to vinegar?

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You have to use unpasteurized vinegar........ you can find it in a health food store, and you want dregs and all....... You don't need to use all of it, but I would make sure I had the sediment. It has to be finished beer. Vinegar is made from acetobacter breaking down alcohol and making acetic acid from it. This is very much like making kombucha, but the species of acetobacter is different, and does a better job of souring. It will develop a "mother" or pellicle on the surface, which often sinks, and may look disgusting. It's just a mat of cellulose produced by the bacteria. Actually some pretty amazing stuff called microcellulose. It's being used in the medical industry because it is extremely high quality and consistent.

I've done a lot of different kinds of fermentation over the years, and acetobacter is the most dramatic.

H.W.

Thanks for the info. So how much "unpasteurized" vinegar for 1 gallon approximately? Guess I'll have to brew up another 23L of Cooper's English bitter & rack off a gallon to try this.

unionrdr said:

Thanks for the info. So how much "unpasteurized" vinegar for 1 gallon approximately? Guess I'll have to brew up another 23L of Cooper's English bitter & rack off a gallon to try this.

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I don't think there is an absolute answer to that...... the more the faster it will go. Personally I used a whole pint, but I don't know that it was necessary. I suspect that if you put a few tablespoons in, that would work just as well in the end. Nothing is going to compete with the acetobacter in that environment. Cover it with a cloth so it has oxygen.

H.W.

So maybe a quarter cup would do? And no airlock, just a breathable covering?

unionrdr said:

So maybe a quarter cup would do? And no airlock, just a breathable covering?

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probably....... and yes........ breathable absolutely.


H.W.

These guys are doing it...

http://backfortybeer.com/product/beer-honey

I make vinegar- wine vinegar, cider vinegar, malt vinegar.

I've found that my favorite malt vinegar isn't my favorite beer. But what makes the best vinegar seems to be starters- without hops, and with about 4% ABV or so. The hops tend to carry over the "bitter" when I use leftover wort (which I then ferment) but an unhopped wort that was fermented out has turned out great.

I started with the mother from a bottle of Bragg's apple cider vinegar.

Yooper said:

I make vinegar- wine vinegar, cider vinegar, malt vinegar.

I've found that my favorite malt vinegar isn't my favorite beer. But what makes the best vinegar seems to be starters- without hops, and with about 4% ABV or so. The hops tend to carry over the "bitter" when I use leftover wort (which I then ferment) but an unhopped wort that was fermented out has turned out great.

I started with the mother from a bottle of Bragg's apple cider vinegar.

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That sounds like what Craig showed on one of his homebrew Wednesday videos. An unpasteurized cider vinegar. I'm going to look for some of that to use. I like the malty, brown Cooper's English bitter with smoky pit barbecue. goes well with the bark on the outside. I have a recipe for a mop sauce that uses 12ozs of the English bitter in my HB book in my sig. Wanna use the same ale for malt vinegar as well. It has very little bittering, so the darker smooth malts should be great for this. If it turns out well, it'll prove to be my most versatile brew ever!

unionrdr said:

That sounds like what Craig showed on one of his homebrew Wednesday videos. An unpasteurized cider vinegar. I'm going to look for some of that to use. I like the malty, brown Cooper's English bitter with smoky pit barbecue. goes well with the bark on the outside. I have a recipe for a mop sauce that uses 12ozs of the English bitter in my HB book in my sig. Wanna use the same ale for malt vinegar as well. It has very little bittering, so the darker smooth malts should be great for this. If it turns out well, it'll prove to be my most versatile brew ever!

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I agree that highly hopped is not optimal for vinegar......... think "sour"..... You don't use a lot of hops in a sour........ sour and bitter are NOT a good combination. An IPA would probably not make a good vinegar. A dark sweet beer would probably make an excellent vinegar. I'm going to buy some whole cone hops and try hopping ordinary vinegar...... I believe hop flavor and aroma would be an asset, but hop bitterness would not.

H.W.

Anybody see a problem with decanting my beer starters into something to add to the malt vinegar jug? I have a vinegar going from an oatmeal stout and Bragg's apple cider vinegar dregs at present.

ChuckO said:

Anybody see a problem with decanting my beer starters into something to add to the malt vinegar jug? I have a vinegar going from an oatmeal stout and Bragg's apple cider vinegar dregs at present.

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I hate to sound ignorant, but I'm not understanding what you are talking about.... What do you mean by a "beer starter"? And what do you mean by "decanting beer starters into something to add to the malt vinegar jug"? I would presume you mean yeast starter? but I have no idea what you are decanting into......... a wort? ........... I'm completely confused????


H.W.

Owly055 said:

I hate to sound ignorant, but I'm not understanding what you are talking about.... What do you mean by a "beer starter"? And what do you mean by "decanting beer starters into something to add to the malt vinegar jug"? I would presume you mean yeast starter? but I have no idea what you are decanting into......... a wort? ........... I'm completely confused????


H.W.

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Yes, a yeast starter. I made a starter at about 1.040 which has fermented out and will cold crash overnight. I am thinking about decanting it and putting the unhopped beer into something to transfer to my vinegar jar that is making a malt vinegar from a stout. I normally just throw out the decanted liquid after building up a yeast starter.

Just recently decided to try making vinegar. Bought culture ("mother" ) but did not have wort handy at the moment so used canned Guiness. I'm hoping for a nice malt vinegar. Left it fermenting while traveling. Should be back in a few weeks to check on it.

This sounds fun. I have a few spare 1 gallon fermenters sitting around. Could I just brew a big beer and do a gallon sparge just for a vinegar batch? Malt vinegar on french fries....mmmmmmm

I have a Wee Heavy that no matter what I try (no kegging equipment so force carb is out of the question) will not carb up; so trying to make some vinegar with a couple of bottles of that might be interesting. From what I've read will need to dilute it down from 10ABV to about 4-6, and will need to see if I can locate some unpasturized vinegar.

ChuckO said:

Yes, a yeast starter. I made a starter at about 1.040 which has fermented out and will cold crash overnight. I am thinking about decanting it and putting the unhopped beer into something to transfer to my vinegar jar that is making a malt vinegar from a stout. I normally just throw out the decanted liquid after building up a yeast starter.

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Now I understand............. When I make a starter, I make it similar enough to my brew that I just put the works in with the beer. Not very scientific...... but it works for me. If I were doing what you are doing, I would make my starters using dark DME to yield a nice dark malt vinegar.


H.W.

Trox said:

I have a Wee Heavy that no matter what I try (no kegging equipment so force carb is out of the question) will not carb up; so trying to make some vinegar with a couple of bottles of that might be interesting. From what I've read will need to dilute it down from 10ABV to about 4-6, and will need to see if I can locate some unpasturized vinegar.

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8% should work from what I've read....

H.W.

A few years ago, about 60 years ago, your vinegar jug was filled directly from the barrel at the grocery store. Always contained the "mother". I have been looking for unpasteurized vinegar, haven't found any yet. I would like to make some malt vinegar with a couple bottles of dry stout.