When to pitch Wyeast - Roeselare Belgian Sour Blend - 3763

Going to try my hand at a sour and Morebeer recommending this yeast/bacteria blend pack. Would I pitch this into wort in primary fermenter or use just yeast for primary and pitch this into secondary for secondary long term fermentation?

I'd say it depends on how tart you want your sour to be. There are lots of factors but generally speaking the earlier you pitch the Roeselare, the tarter it will be. I always pitch it from the start but I like my sours very tart.

microbusbrewery said:

I'd say it depends on how tart you want your sour to be. There are lots of factors but generally speaking the earlier you pitch the Roeselare, the tarter it will be. I always pitch it from the start but I like my sours very tart.

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So on "Morebeer" they have a clone kit and they call for 3 yeast additions. One in primary is routine yeast addition. Then into secondary they recommend the Wyeast and then finally a bottling yeast at bottling at end of secondary. They mention using the Wyeast for the secondary as it has the bugs you need but I believe it also has the Brett and I want that in the primary. I don't want to disregard their recommendations but would it make sense to skip the yeast for the primary and pitch the wyeast then to make the beer more sour and then use the bottling yeast after an extended secondary. There wouldn't be any yeast added during the secondary going that route but the bugs should continue to work on souring the beer. I want the sour effect to be notable so I'm thinking it would go better to pitch the wyeast into the freshly brewed and cooled wort. YOUR THOUGHTS??? Also am I correct that the Wyeast blend has the brett and other bugs I need???

Yes, in my experience the early it's added the more intense the sourness. Lacto seems to prefer simple sugars similar to sach strains. So if you pitch it after primary it won't produce as much lactic acid because a lot of the simple sugars will already be consumed. Roeselare contains a sach strain, a sherry strain, and a brett strain plus lacto and pedio.

microbusbrewery said:

Yes, in my experience the early it's added the more intense the sourness. Lacto seems to prefer simple sugars similar to sach strains. So if you pitch it after primary it won't produce as much lactic acid because a lot of the simple sugars will already be consumed. Roeselare contains a sach strain, a sherry strain, and a brett strain plus lacto and pedio.

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So scrap the white labs abbey ale yeast they recommend for primary all together and just go with the Wyeast to maximize sourness???

Yeah that's what I would do to maximize sourness but I like my sours pretty sour. Option B would be to pitch both from the start. That would give you a lower level of tartness than pitching Roeselare from the start, but you'd get some esters from the Abbey ale yeast. Option C would be to follow their directions which I would think would be similar to B but with a lower level of tartness.

Roe is incredibly slow to sour, definitely pitch it from the start. you don't need any other yeast with it, except maybe some commercial sour dregs

When you are satisfied with the sour and plan on racking to secondary or bottling, brew a batch of whatever you like and throw it on the Roselare cake. Second gen. Roselare is mighty fine stuff.

dcp27 said:

Roe is incredibly slow to sour, definitely pitch it from the start. you don't need any other yeast with it, except maybe some commercial sour dregs

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Sorry for so many questions....but if I go this route, skip the abbey ale primary yeast and pitch the Roe right away, would I still rack it over to secondary for an extended time and if so will racking it leave all the yeast and bugs I need in the primary? If so... do you just leave it go in the primary for the entire multi month fermentation and souring process?

its really up to you. I generally just leave it til it's ready (tho I have sometimes got slight enteric notes when doing this > 1 year) as I figure that keeps the most bugs in contact, but others rack after primary fermentation is wrapped up.

I'd give this a read for some helpful info: http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2009/11/brewing-sour-beer-at-home.html

mikek said:

Sorry for so many questions....but if I go this route, skip the abbey ale primary yeast and pitch the Roe right away, would I still rack it over to secondary for an extended time and if so will racking it leave all the yeast and bugs I need in the primary? If so... do you just leave it go in the primary for the entire multi month fermentation and souring process?

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I keep my Flanders Red on the yeast for 90 days or more. Then I rack to long-term aging on brandy-soaked oak cubes. Leaving the yeast cake for your next batch will make the next batch more sour than the first one.

Rugrad02 said:

When you are satisfied with the sour and plan on racking to secondary or bottling, brew a batch of whatever you like and throw it on the Roselare cake. Second gen. Roselare is mighty fine stuff.

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Was thinking of doing a Tart of Darkness clone and also a RR consecration clone...My thoughts are brew the RR, ferment day one with the Wyeast blend and leave it for 2-3 weeks. Rack to secondary and let it sit for 9-12 months... The Tart of Darkness calls for similar yeast/bug blend... would it make sense that throwing it right onto the cake would likely give me the results I am looking for???

Rugrad02 said:

When you are satisfied with the sour and plan on racking to secondary or bottling, brew a batch of whatever you like and throw it on the Roselare cake. Second gen. Roselare is mighty fine stuff.

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One other question... for primary is a bucket fermenter ok or do I need glass carboy for both primary and secondary???

mikek said:

would it make sense that throwing it right onto the cake would likely give me the results I am looking for???

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yep

mikek said:

One other question... for primary is a bucket fermenter ok or do I need glass carboy for both primary and secondary???

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bucket is fine for primary

dcp27 said:

yep



bucket is fine for primary

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thanks for all the input...will def. give it a try....