Easy Stove-Top Pasteurizing - With Pics

CidahMastah said:

Pappers - thanks for the good read - I will check it out. And imagine - we were all able to share opinions and be civilized about it - now that is just good stuff all around

much appreciated!

EDIT:

To sum it all up - looks like PH and Hops are the biggest deterrent to botulism (possibly alcohol). I have heard a lot of controversial information about the alcohol part. Many reliable sources claim the percentage is so low in most beers it doesn't serve as a protector like we intuitively think. The information on that link, while not a scientific journal, seems pretty reliable compare to what I have read in the past.

However - if you save extra wort for starters (all grain brewers like me) - you need to pressure cook (can) it to remove risk of botulism. At first glance this seems like a great way to handle wort for starters though - open a jar, and add sterilized wort to your yeast starter. No boiling, letting cool, etc. (how I currently do it)

If anybody has done this please let me know - I would love to try it - I pretty much only can thinks that are acidic, or that don't need pressure canning (but I have a 22qt pressure cooker I could use).

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I just don't understand the concern for botulism in a homebrew, has there ever been a recorded case? I'm not trying to rip on you or anything, I'm genuinely interested. I can understand if I was using fresh-pressed apples, but I think the chances of infecting a brew with botulism using pasteurised juices is relatively (or maybe minutely) low. I mean, I'm not going around pouring dirt into my primary. I'd be more worried about mould.... or acetobacter

dusty1025 said:

Wow. good read. Great stuff guys.

On a new topic, I believe i have found a remedy to the fear of exploding bottles during pasteurization (aside from the precautions that have been discussed here a hundred times).
I have built a "blowproof" steam pasteurizer.

Its a 15.5 sanke with the rings cut off of both ends. I then split it in half lengthwise and added a 5.5 inch stainless filler panel then welded the two halves back together after putting a perforated rack across the bottom to sit my bottles on. I cut a hinged door in the top to put my bottles in and added a latching closure and a thermometer.

I then welded some legs on it so it sits above a propane two burner stove i bought from harbor freight.

I bottle in 32oz bottles so i designed it so i can pasteurize a 5 gallon batch at one time. It holds 25of the 32 ounce-rs. I add a gallon of water to the bottom of the chamber. crank up the heat to bring the chamber temp to 180F then back off the burners to maintain that temp and hold for 30 min. Then i cut the heat and let them cool overnight.

Hard to visualize i know. I can e-mail pics to anyone interested. e-mail me at [email protected]. I haven't upgraded my account yet but i wanted to share this with all of my fellow "pasteurizers" out there.

Cheers
Dusty

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upgrade! we want to see it!!

Trust me, you will get your dollars worth out of the collaboration and conversations.

CidahMastah said:

upgrade! we want to see it!!

Trust me, you will get your dollars worth out of the collaboration and conversations.

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until i get around to upgrading, I've added pics to the member gallery

This project was inspired by my readings in this thread...Thanks Pappers
cross posted to the DIY section as not to hijack Pappers awesome thread
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/blowproof-steam-pasteurizer-243937/#post2898701

https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3733.JPG
https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN37311.JPG
https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3730.JPG

mcwilcr said:

Hi Pappers, excellent thread full of great information!

Also, thank you for maintaining and keeping such an active role in it after all this time!

I have a couple of 1 gallon batches that I am fermenting out and letting clear but I intend to back sweeten with some filtered 100% AJ once they have cleared and pasteurize using your method once they have carbonated.

my question is, since I am making such small batches, I dont want to prematurely drink all of my cider while I am testing for the right level of carbonation so is it reasonable to think I could just re-cap them after I pry them open and pasteurize later?

I know I will loose some of the carbonation from the outgasing of the trapped CO2 in the head space but this shouldnt be too much right? I know I wont be able to actually taste for carb levels but I should be able to get a reasonable feel for how well it is carbed by how much it outgases, or at least this is my thinking.

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It all sounds reasonable, but I've never tried it, MC, so can't really give you any advice. FWIW, my cider is usually carbonated in about 4 - 5 days.

dusty1025 said:

until i get around to upgrading, I've added pics to the member gallery

This project was inspired by my readings in this thread...Thanks Pappers
cross posted to the DIY section as not to hijack Pappers awesome thread
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/blowproof-steam-pasteurizer-243937/#post2898701

https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3733.JPG
https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN37311.JPG
https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3730.JPG

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Dude, that is a crazy looking rig! Did you add some sheet stainless to the keg and weld it on for height?

I gotta ask though... wouldn't it have been cheaper/faster to just get a bottling gun for your keg system?

CidahMastah said:

Dude, that is a crazy looking rig! Did you add some sheet stainless to the keg and weld it on for height?

I gotta ask though... wouldn't it have been cheaper/faster to just get a bottling gun for your keg system?

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Yeah i added a 5.5 inch filler panel to get to the right height to for my 32oz bottles.

I found the keg system on craigslist dirt cheap way after i finished the pasteurizer; i hadn't figured on kegging any time soon but i couldn't pass on the price. I need to save some scratch to have the refrigeration serviced before i can use it anyway.

How would you stop fermentation prior to kegging to force carb? I've read that even sorbate and sulfite aren't reliable to stop fermentation dead.

dusty1025 said:

Yeah i added a 5.5 inch filler panel to get to the right height to for my 32oz bottles.

I found the keg system on craigslist dirt cheap way after i finished the pasteurizer; i hadn't figured on kegging any time soon but i couldn't pass on the price. I need to save some scratch to have the refrigeration serviced before i can use it anyway.

How would you stop fermentation prior to kegging to force carb? I've read that even sorbate and sulfite aren't reliable to stop fermentation dead.

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If you do it right it is very reliable - I do a lot of cider this way.

Once fermented dry:
1. cold crash 24-48 hours (try to get it <50F).
2. rack cider into a bucket, add sorbate and then sugar to taste.
3. add sulfites
4. Rack to keg and force carb - cap and you are done.

You knock the yeast out of suspension with cold crashing, so don't rack up sediment/yeast, though a little won't hurt.

I have done this without cold crashing and bottled and put in a 70F environment for over 6 months - no restart of fermentation. I did that as a test. Now to be safe I try to cold crash, but as long as the cider is fermented dry and has been sitting a while, most of the yeasts are knocked out already. I usually don't bottle any cider until the 3-6month mark

oldmate said:

I just don't understand the concern for botulism in a homebrew, has there ever been a recorded case? I'm not trying to rip on you or anything, I'm genuinely interested. I can understand if I was using fresh-pressed apples, but I think the chances of infecting a brew with botulism using pasteurised juices is relatively (or maybe minutely) low. I mean, I'm not going around pouring dirt into my primary. I'd be more worried about mould.... or acetobacter

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My concern is, botulism kills you....no matter how rare it is (do you want to be the first dude to die from botulism haha?). And unpasterized cider has nothing to do with it IMO.

My argument was that the method of bottling was potentially dangerous - if he/she has an insipid cider with a low acid high number value PH... in my opinion it is, because unlike beer cider doesn't have hops.

Botulism comes from dirt but can be pushed up with dust/airborne. Do you think people canning things thought dirt was in the canning jars? While the risk is low, I simply felt an obligation to raise the issue so that the poster could decide if it was a good idea.

unpasteurized apples and cider don't scare me one bit - it was the method to the bottling that caused me concern. I have no concerns of botulism personally, because I don't heat treat and bottle anything. I force carb.

CidahMastah said:

If you do it right it is very reliable - I do a lot of cider this way.

Once fermented dry:
1. cold crash 24-48 hours (try to get it <50F).
2. rack cider into a bucket, add sorbate and then sugar to taste.
3. add sulfites
4. Rack to keg and force carb - cap and you are done.

You knock the yeast out of suspension with cold crashing, so don't rack up sediment/yeast, though a little won't hurt.

I have done this without cold crashing and bottled and put in a 70F environment for over 6 months - no restart of fermentation. I did that as a test. Now to be safe I try to cold crash, but as long as the cider is fermented dry and has been sitting a while, most of the yeasts are knocked out already. I usually don't bottle any cider until the 3-6month mark

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That sounds great. Soon as i get the refrigeration fixed up on the keg system, and round up a beer gun, i'll probably be done pasteurizing.
thanks

I'm not sure why, but I had a bottle explode while pasteurizing, even though I'd only had the cider bottled for about 24 hours.

Here's the fuller picture:
Regular store-bought apple juice with brown sugar added to 1.065.
Lalvin EC--1118.
As soon as the SG dipped to 1.020, I bottled.

After one day of letting it prime, I opened one and found it to be very fizzy (not a gusher, but definitely fizzy), so I pasteurized. The first batch of bottles went fine--got the water to a boil, turned off the heat, and let the bottles sit for 10 minutes. After repeating with the second batch of bottles, I put the lid back on the pot and left it to sit for 10 minutes. Four minutes in my ladyfriend were startled by a loud BOOM and raining shards of glass. Much sweeping, mopping, and vacuuming ensued, and I cracked open all of the bottles just to be safe (fortunately, there were few--it was just a 1 gallon batch).


My question is about the wait for priming. I see other people on the board wait up to a week or more. Why was the pressure in mine so high after only 24 hours?
My best guess is that it's a combination of the yeast (Lalvin EC-1118--a formidable monster), the temperature (78ish while priming), and the fact that I bottled mid-initial fermentation, rather than after back-sweetening.

Anybody else have a similar experience? Tips on how to avoid this in the future?

ciderlover said:

My best guess is that it's a combination of the yeast (Lalvin EC-1118--a formidable monster), the temperature (78ish while priming), and the fact that I bottled mid-initial fermentation, rather than after back-sweetening.

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I think you pretty much nailed it. Next time try SO-4 instead of the EC-1118. Condition at 70-72F. You should still bottle at mid fermentation otherwise they won't carb in the bottle. Try bottling at around 1.010 or 1.012 and add priming sugar to carb. Otherwise, you could use a bunjee cord to keep the lid on your pot to contain the shrapnel.

Better luck next time
Cheers
Dusty

I agree with Dusty, one of the big differences from the process I describe is that you bottled at 1.020 while I bottle closer to 1.012. Another difference is that you say that you brought the water to a boil, which is much hotter than in the process I described.

I actually had my first bombs the other night. Completely my fault though, I left them carbing for WAY too long. The only problem is that after that happens I pretty much have to drink them or dump them because my yeast doesn't stop fermenting in my fridge.

Nevertheless, it was a good reminder of keeping up safety precautions which were getting a bit lax.

a barely feasible solution to salvaging overcarbed bottles: i had some way overcarbed bottles, from a wild yeast that refused to die when cooked; i was very surprised indeed (1.) when all my bottles had fermented completely dry (bottled around 1.009), (2.) they were all geysers of yellowstone proportions when opened and (3.) somehow had not exploded- very lucky. i really didn't want to open (ie waste) these since they were from a special orchard, were delicious, and had thrown a lot of lees while clearing in the bottle, and this was all mixed up when they did their geyser impression. i salvaged them painstakingly by first fridging and then slowly and carefully releasing gas. most were in grolsch style bottles, and the seal can be broken a tiny amount with a thumbnail, letting gas escape until the volcanic foam reaches the top, repeating over and over and over until excess gas is gone. for those in beer bottles i used a key opener to very gently press up one side of the cap until a tiny bit of gas could escape, surprisingly this could be done without permanently breaking the cap seal. did it about a million times until they were non-volcanic and then they were perfectly carbed. the grolsch ones i left to age further and the beer bottles i didn't trust so into fridge and drank promptly. i never ever want to waste my time like this again but if you really want to save a few bottles you can.

Hahaha that sounds SO painful! The problem with my favourite yeast (a no-name wine yeast) though is that it chews through anything and everything. I can actually ferment in the fridge although it takes a few months. It comes out AMAZING, the best cider I have ever had. It retained all of the apple taste and honey flavours that I added. So I can't stop the yeast unless I can pasteurise (I also got over grolsch bottles, I don't like the concept of pasteurising with a flip top).

So I just did my first attempt at this. The stock pot I used was not tall enough to cover with a lid. The temp dropped from 190 to around 140 at the end of ten minutes with most of the temp drop happening quickly. I would like to believe I still killed the yeasties.
However, I do have another pot I could use. Its the wife's canning pot that I could probably put a lid on. My biggest dislike with this pot is that it is HUGE and will take forever to reach temp.
So my question is, should I stick with the smaller stock pot that I can not put a lid on, or should I go with the larger, taller pot?
Scott

sashurlow said:

So I just did my first attempt at this. The stock pot I used was not tall enough to cover with a lid. The temp dropped from 190 to around 140 at the end of ten minutes with most of the temp drop happening quickly. I would like to believe I still killed the yeasties.

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I think you killed them, too. You might keep your bottles in a 'safe' place, like a basement or closet or inside a rubbermaid bin, in case we're wrong.

Pasteurized another batch last night, while doing the dishes (seems to be a common theme for me). I've lost track of how many dozens of batches I've done this way, but I still have a hard time keeping up with demand. My roommate began drinking them while they were carbonating, over ice, which is a way that many people enjoy this simple style of cider.

Here's the label for this batch - we're marking the Midsommar celebration, inspired by our time in Sweden and Denmark last summer. You can read more about the cider and the midsommar here http://www.singingboysbrewing.com/The-Blog.html

Just a quick question.

Whats the internal temp of the bottles to kill off the yeast?

If I bulk carb mine in a plastic pressure barrel, which ive had great luck wth, can i bulk pasturize?

My pressure barrel easily fits in my brew kettle, so I could easily heat, and maintain the water at a certain temperature, and sit my whole 5gal batch in t. However, no idea how long it will take to reach pasturization temps, and if it will ruin the cider?

I theory, I see no problems, whether its a 500ml bottle, or 5 gal barrel being heated to pasturize.

I couldn't make ti through all 29 pages, so sorry if this was already addressed.

If I let the cider ferment to completion, lets say because i don't have bottles to use, for a 5 gallon batch how much AJ concitrate would I add to back sweeten and bottle prime? Also if I did let it ferment to completion how long should I let it sit before bottling? Keep in mind I don't have a hydrometer so I do things by taste.

I also don't want to high of abv how much abv would I expect from notty and straight juice?


So you know my cider attempt will be for the wife who doesn't like alcohol of any kind.

going by taste is fine for determining how it tastes but your tongue isn't a very reliable gauge of sugar content, why don't you splurge ad get a $5 hydrometer?? this will answer all of your questions and prevent you from overpriming and exploding bottles.
apple juice is 'generally' around 1.045 to 1.055, fermented dry (any yeast will ferment that dry) will yield in the ballpark of 6-7%.
when i have primed with juice in the past i have used 75 mls of 1.050 juice per liter of dry cider, this has worked well for priming only, not to sweeten. sorry i don't know how concentrated 'concentrate' is, but i remember some threads on here where people were discussing this. search the forum for priming with concentrate. but if you are going to pasteurize anyways then screw it, add concentrate until you like the taste, bottle, carb up and heat kill.
just a thought though, if wifey doesn't like alcohol, give her the juice before it ferments?

Cazamodo said:

Just a quick question.

Whats the internal temp of the bottles to kill off the yeast?

If I bulk carb mine in a plastic pressure barrel, which ive had great luck wth, can i bulk pasturize?

My pressure barrel easily fits in my brew kettle, so I could easily heat, and maintain the water at a certain temperature, and sit my whole 5gal batch in t. However, no idea how long it will take to reach pasturization temps, and if it will ruin the cider?

I theory, I see no problems, whether its a 500ml bottle, or 5 gal barrel being heated to pasturize.

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I found this a while back; I've stuck to these parameters and haven't had any problems.
Pasteurizing temperatures
at 53C = 128F minimum time to kill population 56 min
at 60C = 140F minimum time to kill population 5.6 min
at 67c = 152F minimum time to kill population .56 min

My biggest worry would be the pressure increase inside your barrel coupled with the weakening of the plastic when exposed to elevated temperatures. Look a few pages back to find pics of melted plastic champagne corks that happened when they were exposed to pasteurizing temps.

vegas20s said:

I couldn't make ti through all 29 pages, so sorry if this was already addressed.

If I let the cider ferment to completion, lets say because i don't have bottles to use, for a 5 gallon batch how much AJ concitrate would I add to back sweeten and bottle prime? Also if I did let it ferment to completion how long should I let it sit before bottling? Keep in mind I don't have a hydrometer so I do things by taste.

I also don't want to high of abv how much abv would I expect from notty and straight juice?


So you know my cider attempt will be for the wife who doesn't like alcohol of any kind.

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I copied this from somewhere a few months ago, don't remember where it came from:
Priming with Juice/sugar: I usually use juice for bottling. The juice I get is about 1.046/1.048. That works out about the same SG as a pound of table sugar in 1 gallon, so 1 cup (half a pint) is equivalent to one ounce of table sugar. I usually use 1 cup of juice to a gallon of cider for bottling.

Keep in mind this is just for priming ad won't make any changes in your abv.

dusty1025 said:

My biggest worry would be the pressure increase inside your barrel coupled with the weakening of the plastic when exposed to elevated temperatures. Look a few pages back to find pics of melted plastic champagne corks that happened when they were exposed to pasteurizing temps.

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i agree, depending on the plastic of course, the PET stuff that drinks bottles are made from gets pretty wobbly at these temps. the whole thing sounds a bit dodgy to me but if you do it you might be advised to get a thermometer in there and stir constantly so you get uniform and reliable temp?

Ok so I've been doing partial mash brewing for 6 months. Man I should have started sooner. 7 batches now. My third batch of homebrew anything was my sister's cider in about February (edit: March I think). I have a few questions about it, and the next planned batch.

6 gallons of locally produced pasteurized farm fresh cider.
some brown sugar
a can of frozen concentrate
wine yeast from LHBS

Fermentation and sat in primary for about 2 weeks at ~60deg. Racked to secondary after the color change, and sat there for about a month. Still wouldn't clear (was picturing something clear like Magners or Strongbow). So I got a package of the gelatin goo stuff, racked to third, and let it sit there for almost a month. Her impatience forced me to bottle it when it was still quite cloudy.

Primed with dextrose, bottled half in her new 32oz Grolsch bottles, and the rest in clear strongbow bottles. As I suspected, patience was key, and had been all along. Something I have plenty of, but she lacks.

For a solid month they were bitter, uncarbonated, and cloudy. As time progressed (especially in the fridge), they cleared a bit, and sediment was on the bottom. The flavor also improved greatly. The first few I had, I thought it was almost starting to turn vinegary. Over the next month, I noticed each that I had, the flavor improved and they got a bit bubblier. There's only like 3 of the Grolsch bottles left. The ones that stayed out of the fridge (and kept fermenting the sugar) got slightly carbonated. I'm sure with a couple more months in the carboy, it would have been much clearer. I told her this fall's batch will be with fresh unpasteurized cider, and ale yeast. I'm just going to have them fill the carboy, then pitch straight into it. Then let it sit in a closet until it's clear. I'll probably have concentrate and brown sugar in the carboy already before they add the cider. I do like the higher alcohol stuff, like 8-9%. Last one was 8.2.

Then bottle everything, primed and backsweetened with dextrose (can I use a pound of honey to do this instead?). I figure at that point I'll crack a few open from time to time to test carbonation, then when it's where it should be, I'll dishwasher pasteurize them to kill the yeast. Then let them bottle condition to mellow the flavor. Solid plan?

How long can I expect to let it sit, to get pretty crystal clear? Is there anything I can do beforehand to help clarify it (natural method would be best, I'd like to avoid chemical routes...).

Oh ya, she said she wants it sweet and bubbly, just like her. lol

EDIT: here's the pic of the labels... you can see how cloudy they are. This was only a couple weeks ago.

lextasy23 said:

Solid plan?

How long can I expect to let it sit, to get pretty crystal clear? Is there anything I can do beforehand to help clarify it (natural method would be best, I'd like to avoid chemical routes...).

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great plan

you never know how long it will take, with mine every batch is different, but nothing has taken more than 3 months. you can try pectic enzyme. enzymes are natural.

go tim wakefield

dinnerstick said:

great plan

you never know how long it will take, with mine every batch is different, but nothing has taken more than 3 months. you can try pectic enzyme. enzymes are natural.

go tim wakefield

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Thanks for the pectic enzyme tip. I did read that before in another thread (been reading cider threads here all day at work lol), but I forgot what it was called and then couldn't find that thread.

haha ya good call. Wake is the MAN!

If your swmbo is looking for a Magner-like simple draft-style semi-sweet cider, you could try making a batch with regular old apple juice from the store (make sure it doesn't have preservatives). It clears easily and tastes good. Plus, its fast (two weeks for me). The key is to not let it ferment all the way to dry.

lextasy23 said:

EDIT: here's the pic of the labels... you can see how cloudy they are. This was only a couple weeks ago.

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Nice! What did you use to make the labels?

smyrnaquince said:

Nice! What did you use to make the labels?

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Thanks

Photoshop and Illustrator CS3.

Just a heads-up that I will be away from hbt.com for a while. There are plenty of folks here who can answer questions or offer advice on this thread. If you need to reach me, send a pm, and I'll get notified of it via email on my cell phone, and I can try to get back to you when possible.

wow so long story short, pasteurizing this way allows what's left of the sugars to carb until you like where it is then you kill the yeast so you don't need to add sweetener at all, huh? or am i missing something? My recipe I was thinking of doing in the next day or two included 4 cans of concentrate...so is that not necessary in this situation or do I still need that to get the OG up?

You won't need to get the OG up, just don't let it ferment quite the whole way, and bottle when the sweetness/dryness level has reached your liking. Prime and bottle as you would beer, then in the same spirit of "as you like it," do the pasteurization when the carbonation level is to your liking. Easy as pie.

A few notes to share on my experience...

I have two gallons of cider bottled. One is a standard apple juice / sugar and the other is apple juice, fresh cherry juice / sugar. Both had a OG of ~1.07. After the exact same time fermenting the apple juice was ~1.02 and the cherry / apple was 1.00.

I primed with sugar and bottled with flip top pint bottles. Two days later there was almost no carbonation in the apple juice cider and TONS in the cherry. I opened all the cherry bottles briefly to release some of the pressure (I'm a chicken) and they were not fountains but bubbles did rise out the top of the bottles.

I just got done pasteurizing a total of 8 apple ciders and 7 cherry / apple ciders. No issues at all.

On one of the batches I added a bottle with room temperature water and a thermometer on top. The water bath started at 190 degrees. After 20 minutes the water in the bottle was 140.

Unfortunately I have to go on a business trip tomorrow so I won't be able to try them until Thursday night

Pappers_ said:

Just a heads-up that I will be away from hbt.com for a while. There are plenty of folks here who can answer questions or offer advice on this thread. If you need to reach me, send a pm, and I'll get notified of it via email on my cell phone, and I can try to get back to you when possible.

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I'm back from my brief time away and am able to check back on hbt.com now.

Cherry cider sounds interesting, Coffeesnob, I'm interested in hearing how that turns out. Glad the stove-top pastuerizing worked out for you.

Pappers_ said:

I'm back from my brief time away and am able to check back on hbt.com now.

Cherry cider sounds interesting, Coffeesnob, I'm interested in hearing how that turns out. Glad the stove-top pastuerizing worked out for you.

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The cherries were in the carboy from the get-go and the yeast REALLY liked the food. It was pretty much fermented dry as compared to the apple only cider I started at the same time (which is still sweet). Nearly all the cherry flavor is gone. If I were to do it again (and I will!) I'll add the cherry juice at the end of the process to keep some more flavor.

I'm hoping that a few weeks in the bottles will improve things a bit.

Interesting, CoffeeSnob. I've been thinking about trying a cherry cider and a pomegranate cider.

A couple of questions..
have you found some aging of the cider after pasteurisation..(process that I've been looking for..but I'm worried that the usual improvement in the cider taste after a couple of weeks won't happen after doing this).
and looking at your original pic...a see a very nice head on the cider ! does it last and what is it about your original recipe that makes it so good..my ciders never produce something like that..!!
Thanks for all the great info !!

Gordond said:

A couple of questions..
have you found some aging of the cider after pasteurisation..(process that I've been looking for..but I'm worried that the usual improvement in the cider taste after a couple of weeks won't happen after doing this).
and looking at your original pic...a see a very nice head on the cider ! does it last and what is it about your original recipe that makes it so good..my ciders never produce something like that..!!
Thanks for all the great info !!

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Gordond, the cider that I use stove-top pasteurizing on is a simple, draft-style cider that doesn't require aging. Typically, a four-gallon batch will be gone in less than a month in our household.

The cider I make doesn't really have a 'head' as much as carbonation. When you pour it, some foam accumulates on top but it dissipates quickly.

Cheers!

Pappers_ said:

Regarding the ideas about using a dishwasher, I don't know enough about how warm a dishwasher gets, how consistent the heat is, etc. Perhaps someone else will want to explore this possible method.

John, my cider is ready to drink immediately, I suspect the difference in our experiences has to do with the recipes we use rather than any difference caused by the pasteurization.

Naeco, I did not use freshly pressed cider in that batch. Using store-bought filtered cider, it cleared in the bottles quickly.

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Heated Dry cycle is usually around 190 degrees. Water temp will vary unless your dishwasher heats the water with the element.