SS or Aluminum?

Radarbrew · Feb 4, 2006

OK fellas and lasses. What is the pros and cons of SS over Aluminum pots? Is there some weird leaching thing from Aluminum? The reason I ask, is there is a good deal on turkey fryers at Home Depot. Please, no shouting, first in the front row...yes, you sir....

KopyKat · Feb 5, 2006

I do not recommend aluminum. The wort is acidic and the turkey fryer pots are of the cheapest aluminum. A high grade aluminum pot such as you can get in a restaurant supply would probably work but then you would be able to get a stainless pot for a comparable price. Why risk your health or your brew over a few bucks.

McCall St. Brewer · Feb 5, 2006

I second, third and fourth that. You do not want to use aluminium. Stainless is the way to go. Enameled canning pots work also. Stainless stockpots can be found for reasonable prices.

david_42 · Feb 5, 2006

There is nothing wrong with aluminum. The one thing you don't want to do is scrub off the passive coating that protects the surface. John Palmer is a professional metallurgist. http://www.howtobrew.com/appendices/appendixB.html The pros don't use aluminum because you can't use alkaline clean-in-place chemicals on aluminum.

casebrew · Feb 5, 2006

There are no health risks to aluminum.

Aluminum it the most common metalic element in the earth's crust, we are bred to accept it.

Much of the food you eat is cooked in aluminum, and it is all acidic too.

Enameled pots can wreck several batches of beer if the get a chipped spot that rusts, and puts iron into the beer.

I'll betcha there lots of aliminum pots sold by brew stores.

Rhoobarb · Feb 5, 2006

This question has been debated to death and, IMHO, it's a non-issue. There is no scientific evidence that aluminum is bad for you to use. It's true that many restaurants don't use it for acidics, like tomato sauces. But for our brewing, it won't matter a bit. You aren't going to store your beer in it! I've been using aluminum for nearly nine years now with no ill-affects or off flavors.

Prowler 13 said:
... you would be able to get a stainless pot for a comparable price. ...

If you can find an S/S for a comparable price, buy it!

I found just the opposite when I went all-grain last July. I bought a good, thick-walled (8mm), heavy-duty aluminum stock pot from a restaurant supply house. It's a 40-qt. and I got it for $50! All the comparable 18-8 S/S pots I found were ~$140-$150!

The pots that come with the turkey-fryer pots are cheap, thin-walled and pit easily. I use mine to heat my sparge water. It's gotten me through 15 sessions. I was planning to it soon for a quality alumunim one, maybe a 4mm, 32-qt. one.

casebrew · Feb 5, 2006

Matter of fact, there might be a down side to SS.

Did you ever here that you could eliminate the onion odor on your hands after peeling onions, by wiping your hands on a stainless utensil? They even used to make a stainless "soap bar". I know that the batch of carne asada I marinated in a stainless pan had no onion flavor, terrible bland. I wonder what other flavors are killed by stainless? Fruits? Spices?

Rhooobarb, noticed anything that comes out better in Aluminum? Some flavor stronger than the recipe expected?

Mikey · Feb 5, 2006

When I joined this form, I was impressed that it seemed to be free of debate on this topic. Oh well.

How about this as an idea- has anybody actually brewed two identical batches of beer, one in aluminum and the other in SS? Have you then done a blind taste test to compare one to another? Could you consistantly tell the difference? Was the SS beer superior?

No, I didn't think so.

The so-called 'scientific evidence' linking aluminum to alzheimers disease has long been disproven as just plain bad research.

Rhoobarb · Feb 6, 2006

casebrew said:
Rhooobarb, noticed anything that comes out better in Aluminum? Some flavor stronger than the recipe expected?

No, not that I could tell. But, all I've ever used is aluminim!

I think if you did a side by side, it'd be hard to tell any difference.

Did you ever here that you could eliminate the onion odor on your hands after peeling onions, by wiping your hands on a stainless utensil?

Yeah, that's a cool trick! I had an aunt show me that using the kitchen faucet - wipe your hands on the faucet itself and it would rid them of the onion smell. I thought she was full of beans until I tried it myself!

El Pistolero · Feb 6, 2006

Mikey said:
When I joined this form, I was impressed that it seemed to be free of debate on this topic. Oh well.

Well, since nobody else wants to say it, I will...aluminum is evil, and will damage your immortal soul.

In the pantheon of all things evil, aluminum is right up there with corn sugar and 12 oz. bottles.

Seriously tho...I don't think there's likely anything wrong with aluminum, but there's really not anything right with it either, at least for cooking. It's hard to clean up, and it doesn't hold heat as well as SS does. It's one big benefit is that it's cheap, and for beer making as with any type of cooking, cheaper is not better when it comes to your tools.

Rhoobarb · Feb 6, 2006

El Pistolero said:
...aluminum... doesn't hold heat as well as SS does.

Actually, aluminum is a better conductor of heat than S/S. It isn't a huge difference, but there is a difference.

In fact, if you go shopping for cookware, you'll find pans made from stainless steel with a thick reinforced bottom containing aluminum to increase the heat conduction. Problem there is, the heat conduction is not evenly dispersed throughout the pan and the bottom of your food will cook at an unacceptably disproportionate rate. You can't braise food efficiently in such a pan, either.

A copper brewpot would be best! (And cool to look at.) But who's got the money for that!

El Pistolero · Feb 6, 2006

Rhoobarb said:
Actually, aluminum is a better conductor of heat than S/S. It isn't a huge difference, but there is a difference.

You're correct, aluminum is a better conductor...but SS (iron) has a higher heat capacity, meaning it holds heat better.

tnlandsailor · Feb 6, 2006

I would approach the issue from a matter of function. Buying on the cheap (regardless of the material) does not take into account what you want the pot to do. It's more than just volume and material. Does it have a lid? Do you want to install accessories (ball valve, sight glass, kettle screen)? Do you ever want to do 10 gallon batches? Does it have handles? Do you like a flat bottom like on a restaurant pot, or a domed bottom like on a converted keg? Is it durable? Does it fit on your heat source?

You should ask yourself these questions before you buy because you might find out later that these questions are more important that saving $20 on a cheap pot. Nothing worse than buying stuff twice. As far as materials go, either one is fine as long as the pot is useful to you and it does what you want it to.

Lastly, on an extremely biased note, you can't find a better boil pot than a coverted keg. The domed bottom allows extraction of more wort, they have great built in handles, they are easy to accessorize, 60+ quart capacity, and they are cost effective considering all the benefits. Think hard before you buy and materials be damned.

Prosit!

Rhoobarb · Feb 6, 2006

El Pistolero said:
You're correct, aluminum is a better conductor...but SS (iron) has a higher heat capacity, meaning it holds heat better.

Okay, I see what you're saying. I've never been bothered by that; my pot is so thick-walled (another factor in holding heat) that I don't notice a big loss once the flame is out. It still burns the hell out of my hand if I inadvertently touch the side of it!

Mikey · Feb 6, 2006

El Pistolero said:
You're correct, aluminum is a better conductor...but SS (iron) has a higher heat capacity, meaning it holds heat better.

'Holding heat' of a tun is not really a positive attribute in home brewing........... We need the ability to raise or lower mash/boil temps as quickly as possible.

If you're speaking about insulating properties the small advantage of SS over Al is transparent in the real world.

Not intending to be argumentative here.

El Pistolero · Feb 6, 2006

Mikey said:
'Holding heat' of a tun is not really a positive attribute in home brewing........... We need the ability to raise or lower mash/boil temps as quickly as possible.

If you're speaking about insulating properties the small advantage of SS over Al is transparent in the real world.

Not intending to be argumentative here.

Actually, in the real world of cooking, the heat capacity of your brew kettle is a very big concern. Why is cast iron so much better for cooking soup than aluminum? No hot spots...less chance of scorching. There is a reason that you don't see aluminum pots in professional kitchens.

big-o-2 · Feb 6, 2006

I use aluminum pots for boiling water for my beer. I use ss for cooking the beer and I have not seen anything weard yet. I have a bigger aluminum pot than a ss one. I may in the future use the aluminum pot for brewing big batches. I have a couple of crawfish cooking friends that only use aluminum they are crawfish cookers 120 qt. they make great beer. I have a plating back ground and as far as aluminum it oxidizes pretty fast and you never want to remove the oxidation from the pot. If you do cook some water and dump it and let is sit over night it will have an oxidation layer ready to cook the next day.

When you get into big pots the aluminum and ss are almost the same price anyway. Small ones like 7 gal are so mass produced they get cheap. Still if you look around you can find ss 7 gal for like $30 us.

My two cents.....

subwyking · Feb 6, 2006

is oxy clean safe to use on aluminum?

loopmd · Feb 6, 2006

Radarbrew just HAD TO OPEN THIS CAN OF WORMS!!!!! Geez, guys, can't we all just get along.

2500 years ago, they made beer, they didn't have ss or aluminum. the great thing about this hobby, is I can spend 150 bucks on equipment and brew beer, it is great beer, it is better then I have ever had. If I have the funds, I can spend 5 times that and still do the same. Even if beer out of a ss pot is better, if you do not have the funds to support it, you can still make great beer, and not have to worry about getting alzheimers. (at least I don't think so

)

loop

Rhoobarb · Feb 6, 2006

loopmd said:
Radarbrew just HAD TO OPEN THIS CAN OF WORMS!!!!!

Yeah, and I bet that can was aluminum!

Lost · Feb 6, 2006

tnlandsailor said:
I would approach the issue from a matter of function. Buying on the cheap (regardless of the material) does not take into account what you want the pot to do. It's more than just volume and material. Does it have a lid? Do you want to install accessories (ball valve, sight glass, kettle screen)? Do you ever want to do 10 gallon batches? Does it have handles? Do you like a flat bottom like on a restaurant pot, or a domed bottom like on a converted keg? Is it durable? Does it fit on your heat source?

You should ask yourself these questions before you buy because you might find out later that these questions are more important that saving $20 on a cheap pot. Nothing worse than buying stuff twice. As far as materials go, either one is fine as long as the pot is useful to you and it does what you want it to.

Lastly, on an extremely biased note, you can't find a better boil pot than a coverted keg. The domed bottom allows extraction of more wort, they have great built in handles, they are easy to accessorize, 60+ quart capacity, and they are cost effective considering all the benefits. Think hard before you buy and materials be damned.

Prosit!

I'll second this.

As for the health debate, I'm pretty sure that the alzheimers argument has been debunked. You'll be fine with a turkey fryer setup using an aluminum pot - start there. Then, when the time comes, go ahead and upgrade to a pony keg - you'll want the extra capacity for larger boils and less worries about boilovers.

As far as the metal thickness or thermal conductivity I don't see that any of that has any serious real world implications. A thin walled aluminum pot might be a problem if you're using extract - it could settle in a clump on the bottom and be easily burned if you do not stir it well and, perhaps, turn the heat off when you add it. Likewise, if you use the pot as a mash tun instead of using the conventional cooler, and if you then apply heat directly to your mash to keep it in mash temp range then you could risk burning the mash. But, you'll be using the pot as a boil kettle so the mash concern will not be an issue. If you elect to use extract on occasion then you'll still be fine if you take the necessary precautions.. don't sweat it.

I used a cheap, thin walled aluminum pot that came with my turkey fryer setup for sometime and I never had a problem or off taste of any kind. C'mon people, this is beer making, don't overthink it :cross:

El Pistolero · Feb 6, 2006

Lost said:
As far as the metal thickness or thermal conductivity I don't see that any of that has any serious real world implications.

Walk into any restaurant kitchen and see what they're cooking with...it's stainless steel, not aluminum. The thickness of the pot and the heat capacity of the material make a big difference in being able to reach and maintain a vigorous boil without scorching. I'm not saying aluminum won't work...it obviously will. SS will just work much better...this isn't me saying it...it's virtually every professional chef in the world.

david_42 · Feb 6, 2006

Actually, the best pots and pans have three layers: SS on the outside, a layer of aluminum for heat distribution, then another layer of SS.

If you are just starting, get the turkey fryer. Then when you go AG, get a SS boiler, and make the turket fryer into a mash tun. Worked for me.

Lost · Feb 6, 2006

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that aluminum pots were every bit as good as stainless steel. Obviously, such a statement would be just plain wrong. Any good chef will be using stainless steel pots. In my kitchen my pots and pans are all stainless steel with either copper bottoms or copper cladding with a SS steel outer shell. In fact, the only aluminum or ceramic coated pots I own originated as homebrewing equipment.

My point is this: For our purposes as *homebrewers*, aluminum pots are just fine if not every bit as good as stainless steel. You can see my original post for any caveats to this statement. To me, the biggest draw back with aluminum is that bar keepers friend doesn't clean it very well and you shouldn't use the abrasive variety for risk of scratching the oxidative coating.

Rhoobarb · Feb 7, 2006

Lost said:
... To me, the biggest draw back with aluminum is that bar keepers friend doesn't clean it very well and you shouldn't use the abrasive variety for risk of scratching the oxidative coating.

Actually, I'd advise against using any abrasive to clean any pot, be it S/S or aluminum. Both are soft metals and I'd be afraid of scratching them.

One last thing about wall thickness on aluminum pots. Where I live we have very hard water with a lot of calcium, which tends to pit the inside of the thin aluminum 'turkey fryer' pots. If I let mine soak overnight, I find pitting and small white clumps of calcium deposits. Just a heads-up if your water is similar.

Radarbrew · Feb 9, 2006

Wow, OK fellas, enough please. I really did not think it was such an issue. It's almost like discussing religion. No "right" answers.
I'll get the turkey fryer, but will look for a SS pot. I'll still keep the aluminum one for turkey AND beer. It's not a health concern, but I'd like to do the taste test.
Thanks everyone....
And I get my worms in little styrofoam cups from the bait place....

loopmd · Feb 9, 2006

Radarbrew said:
Wow, OK fellas, enough please. I really did not think it was such an issue. It's almost like discussing religion. No "right" answers.
I'll get the turkey fryer, but will look for a SS pot. I'll still keep the aluminum one for turkey AND beer. It's not a health concern, but I'd like to do the taste test.
Thanks everyone....
And I get my worms in little styrofoam cups from the bait place....

LOL!!

After being around long enough you will find there are a few "sensitive"
topics here. I'm glad you didn't ask about hydrometers.

loop

Walker · Feb 9, 2006

loopmd said:
I'm glad you didn't ask about hydrometers.

You M*ther F*cker! Now my blood is boiling!

-walker

Darth Konvel · Feb 9, 2006

Yeah, like loop mentioned, Aluminum vs SS is one of those hot button topics. Like Tyson vs Ali, or Ford vs Chevy, or whatever.

Anywho, noone here is too testy about the issue. Pretty tame by internet standards

Darth Konvel · Feb 9, 2006

Walker said:
You M*ther F*cker! Now my blood is boiling!

-walker

Watch your back, loop. That 'fro has got some crazy firepower

Rhoobarb · Feb 9, 2006

LupusUmbrus said:
Yeah, like ... Ford vs Chevy...

There is only one answer to the Ford vs. Chevy debate - it's no debate at all: Harrison Ford is a much better actor than Chevy Chase.

Walker · Feb 9, 2006

Rhoobarb said:
There is only one answer to the Ford vs. Chevy debate - it's no debate at all: Harrison Ford is a much better actor than Chevy Chase.

yeah, but they are both arrogant pr!cks that are infamously hard to work with.

-walker

Lost · Feb 9, 2006

Walker said:
You M*ther F*cker! Now my blood is boiling!

-walker

Now that's some funny ****!

Baron von BeeGee · Feb 9, 2006

My solution (just consider me the Jimmy Carter of ss vs aluminum. On second thought, don't):
- I bought a stainless kettle (7.5g, wish I had gotten one bigger or converted a keg). I use this for collecting/boiling wort.
- Turkey fryer has an aluminum pot that is essentially my HLT (I batch sparge, so heat loss over time isn't an issue).

So, I have a turkey fryer for heating stuff up in a hurry as well as operating outside, I utilize the pot that came with it for heating liquor, and I have a ss kettle for my wort so I remember my name when I'm 80 (optimistically...).

Rhoobarb · Feb 9, 2006

Walker said:
yeah, but they are both arrogant pr!cks that are infamously hard to work with.

-walker

I've never worked with them!

I'd still pick Ford if I had to work with one or the other.

El Pistolero · Feb 9, 2006

Rhoobarb said:
There is only one answer to the Ford vs. Chevy debate - it's no debate at all: Harrison Ford is a much better actor than Chevy Chase.

Forget the cheddar...velveeta's better.

Rhoobarb · Feb 9, 2006

El Pistolero said:
Forget the cheddar...velveeta's better.

Mmmmm.... Velveeta... Makes good queso dip. Just add a can of Rotel tomatoes and sliced jalapenos, maybe some chipotles, and you've got an excellent accompaniment to a homebrew!

loopmd · Feb 9, 2006

Walker said:
You M*ther F*cker! Now my blood is boiling!

-walker

You little scumbag! I got your name, I got your @ss! You will not laugh, you will not cry, you will learn by the numbers, I will teach you! Now get up off your face! Pvt. Joker you better unf#ck yourself before I unscrew your head and **** down your neck!

loop

Walker · Feb 9, 2006

loopmd said:
You little scumbag! I got your name, I got your @ss! You will not laugh, you will not cry, you will learn by the numbers, I will teach you! Now get up off your face! Pvt. Joker you better unf#ck yourself before I unscrew your head and **** down your neck!

loop

yeah.. check out my "real name" in my profile, punk!

-walker

loopmd · Feb 9, 2006

Walker said:
yeah.. check out my "real name" in my profile, punk!

-walker

Don't make me open up anymore Full Metal Jacket Quotes an go all marine on you.

loop

SS or Aluminum?

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