Brewometer kickstarter thoughts - digital bluetooth hydrometer

Just transferred my beer from the fermentor into the keg and found wort in the Tilt. I was the second beer that I had used it for. I had the thing floating in a star san solution prior to putting it in the fermentor and didn't notice any leak. Dang! I guess I'll look at a few of the recent posts to see I can salvage it.

jimmayhugh said:

OK, as I've mentioned before, my PythonFu is not strong . It appears that the code you're using does indeed do an inquiry, which requires more power that simply intercepting the advertisement broadcasts.

If you want to see how I do it, take a look at my github

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Hi Jim - after looking at the pastebin link, I think hrafnkell is using the same code base as your github code is he not? Are you both not looking at the Ibeacon stuff?

Thanks for your code Jim anyway - very useful.

mrspin said:

Hi Jim - after looking at the pastebin link, I think hrafnkell is using the same code base as your github code is he not? Are you both not looking at the Ibeacon stuff?

Thanks for your code Jim anyway - very useful.

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Yeah it's the same code basically. I figured out the problem, I wasn't waiting long enough for the broadcasts. The code works so it waits for 10 broadcasts and then returns them in an array. My enviroment has many BLE broadcasts so I had to wait longer to hear from the tilt. I've actually changed the code now so that it just waits for broadcasts until it hears from the tilt and then returns, rather than waiting for x broadcasts, which may or may not work, depending on enviroment.

AF1HomeBrew said:

Just transferred my beer from the fermentor into the keg and found wort in the Tilt. I was the second beer that I had used it for. I had the thing floating in a star san solution prior to putting it in the fermentor and didn't notice any leak. Dang! I guess I'll look at a few of the recent posts to see I can salvage it.

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Yeah the tilts are shipped really tight, so I imagine you just need to tighten it harder than you have. The gasket included isn't particularly soft/pliable so it needs more force than f.e. a silicone or a rubber o ring would need. I couldn't open my tilt without gloves, so now I also tighten using gloves, especially after reading a few reports of wort filled tilts.

hrafnkell said:

Yeah it's the same code basically. I figured out the problem, I wasn't waiting long enough for the broadcasts. The code works so it waits for 10 broadcasts and then returns them in an array. My enviroment has many BLE broadcasts so I had to wait longer to hear from the tilt. I've actually changed the code now so that it just waits for broadcasts until it hears from the tilt and then returns, rather than waiting for x broadcasts, which may or may not work, depending on enviroment.

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great that you've resolved your issue. Can you post your code? I'd like to have a go too.

Are these supposed to 'broadcast' the Ibeacon msg once per minute or every time the gravity or temp changes?

I'm on my 2nd brew with the tilt. Odd.... Dropped it into the corny I use as a fermenter. It read a gravity of 1.049 while my trusty hydrometer adjusted to 1.057. My new but cheap refractometer came in at about 1.060. Mash went well and recipe estimated a 1.061 IIRC. Hummmmmmm. Once wort cooled to mid 70s, I pitched. No change to tilt, but then, inexplicably, about 8 hours later, the tilt ramped up to 1.067 and since that time has been slowly dropping as it ferments out. WTH? I had calibrated unit in RO water and it was spot on. Battery fine. Working fine as I write this. Temp reporting has been spot on. I will check the FG with hydrometer when done and report. Anyone seen anything like this? Link to my Google sheet below.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T6A-Fziirz3LK_d60xqmIB8N3XMM-qHdm_931tmg7rM/htmlview#

Not sure what happened, but notice the temperature kept decreasing while the reported SG went up. I think they use temperature in the calculations, so... yeah.

BrunDog said:

Not sure what happened, but notice the temperature kept decreasing while the reported SG went up. I think they use temperature in the calculations, so... yeah.

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The temperature decrease is purely due to the ferm cabinet. I loaded the corny at about 95* (water still is kind of warm here in Houston) and sealed it up with the Tilt in it. I then put it in the ferm cabinet and let it cool down. Since the corny has been sanitized and has minimal head space, this is a nice safe way of doing it. A few hours later, after it has cooled down to the mid 70s, I pop the top just long enough to sprinkle the yeast and get out. It was not for another few hours until that gravity peak (many data points in a row) appeared. The temp keeps dropping to the set point of the ferm cab (actually, a few degrees above which is to be researched....) and stays that way until the gravity really starts to drop (high metabolic activity, creating heat). That's a good indicator to start slowly raising the ferm cab temp to let the yeasties keep partying and not go to sleep! Good for diacetyl rest.

Well as you know, a hydrometer reading only not accurate until the liquid is at its calibrated temp, and I'll bet 95 ain't it, so... yeah.

Has anyone had problems with the app crashing under iOS 10? This batch I have to restart the app and Bluetooth every day or two which also loses my calibrations.

BrunDog said:

Well as you know, a hydrometer reading only not accurate until the liquid is at its calibrated temp, and I'll bet 95 ain't it, so... yeah.

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The website says it has a range of 32* to 135* F. Given that you or I can correct the reading of a 'normal' hydrometer based on the temperature of the wort, I assume the Tilt can as well since it is also taking that reading.

The fermentation has been event free since this strange issue. Once I retrieve the Tilt I will check it against the hydrometer in RO water and sugar water at various temperatures and see if I can replicate the issue.

Separately, the cloud logging of the data has been flawless with the Samsung S5 that I've been using. When I used a Dell tablet I would get a large, 1 period spike in both temp and SG every night at midnight. Weird. Weirder yet, each night's spike would erase the previous night's spike from the spreadsheet!

So, while I'm still working out some gremlins, I have to say that this little bugger is very useful and addictive to look at. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T6A-Fziirz3LK_d60xqmIB8N3XMM-qHdm_931tmg7rM/edit#gid=734290882

My little bugger seems to have bugged out. Two weeks into a fruit ale and its has stopped reporting. I hope its the battery but something tells me its the seal

That's what mine did. It's still in the beer so I'm not sure, but I had battery problems before. They're sending me a new one to replace it. I still think it's a great product with great customer support. I'm even considering buying another.

spittybug said:

The website says it has a range of 32* to 135* F. Given that you or I can correct the reading of a 'normal' hydrometer based on the temperature of the wort, I assume the Tilt can as well since it is also taking that reading.

The fermentation has been event free since this strange issue. Once I retrieve the Tilt I will check it against the hydrometer in RO water and sugar water at various temperatures and see if I can replicate the issue.

Separately, the cloud logging of the data has been flawless with the Samsung S5 that I've been using. When I used a Dell tablet I would get a large, 1 period spike in both temp and SG every night at midnight. Weird. Weirder yet, each night's spike would erase the previous night's spike from the spreadsheet!

So, while I'm still working out some gremlins, I have to say that this little bugger is very useful and addictive to look at. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T6A-Fziirz3LK_d60xqmIB8N3XMM-qHdm_931tmg7rM/edit#gid=734290882

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That's really strange. The one limitation I will say exists with the tilt is the fact that it's relying on the internal temperature sensor of the accelerometer (BMA250) which provides a resolution of 0.5 deg K / LSB (or about 1 degree fahrenheit).

I would love to see them add a DS18b20 to the Tilt and improve the temperature resolution, but I can understand why they wouldn't do that given the increased complexity.

As you know they didn't create the board - it is an off the shelf Bean. But given they have probably sold a bunch of these, it might start to make sense to make their own and customize how they see fit.

BrunDog said:

As you know they didn't create the board - it is an off the shelf Bean. But given they have probably sold a bunch of these, it might start to make sense to make their own and customize how they see fit.

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Well, they could keep the bean, and solder on a DS18b20 if they wanted - the pins are pretty much already exposed. The real question is if the demand exists (and wrapped in that question is the question of how the more sensitive temperature data would be put to use).

Something I'd like to do is add native support to the BrewPi firmware, allowing the temperature data from the Tilt to be piped in as the "beer sensor". The basics of how to do it are already in place -- it's just getting the rest of the stack to support it that will be the challenge.

It's all open source code, right? For those of you that know what to do, go for it!!!!!!!!!! Or does what you say need hardware changes?

In line with the discussion of temp affecting SG readings, I submit the following. Brewometer (early model, but using newer Tilt app on Android) added near end of fermentation (while I worked out leaks after changing battery), and includes the temp ramp for diacetyl rest followed by cold crash. SG tracks temp almost perfectly.



Comments?

Brew on

I'm a long time user of the Tilt/Brewometer, and I've just completed my 31st batch tracking temp and gravity with them. I have one of the original style units and one of the newer style ones. I've provided lots of feedback to the developers since I got my first one.

I've never had any problems with them leaking, even after changing the batteries; however, I have had to return two of the older style units due to problems with them. The first was just never accurate for gravity readings. The second one suddenly started being inaccurate, and then it just went bonkers and would ping pong reading all over the place. One 15 min log would vary as much as 20 points and degrees from the previous. The developers have always been very receptive to feedback and happily exchanged the defective units, no questions asked.

All that being said, here are my findings/nags with the units overall.

1 - As you guys say, temp definitely affects gravity readings. There is no doubt about it. I've got lots of graphs just like the ones you've already posted, so I won't post more, but yeah, it's really obvious. You don't notice it during active fermentation, but when things have settled down, and it's just the natural heat/cool cycle of your ferm chamber or you do a cold crash down to 32 or so, and the two lines just go hand in hand.

2 - They constantly need calibrated and re-calibrated. Temp is generally okay, but gravity always needs it. I reset mine in water on every brew day and then as soon as I drop them in the fermenters they are anywhere from 5-10 points off (usually low but occasionally high). That is comparing them to a couple of different hydrometers and a digital refractometer. Once I correct them to what the wort is though, they usually do okay during the actual fermentation, unless...

3 - Krausen and hop gunk stick to it really easily, and well then it just stinks for the entire fermentation. You can still use it to see trends during the ferment, which is nice because you can tell when fermentation is done without taking a reading, but definitely not good for taking an actual measurement.

4 - The way the temperature sensor works, you are measuring the temp of the air inside the cylinder, not the temp of the wort directly. That might be fairly obvious, but that causes two problems:

4A - Since part of the unit sits exposed above the surface of your wort, and that is in the open air part of your fermenter, it seems to be much more sensitive to temp changes than the actual thermal mass of the wort. I've got thermowells with temp probes in all of my fermenters as well, and whenever the heat or cool is on in the chamber, you'll see the Tilt swing pretty rapidly.

4B - It seems to take a long time to respond to temp changes of the wort. They recommend that you let it sit for 10 minutes or so to acclimate when you calibrate it, and I've noticed it taking it almost that long to catch up to wort temp changes.

Due to both of those, I don't think it's possible as-is to use this to try to directly control your fermentation chamber.

All that being said, I'm still a pretty happy owner. I just understand the limitations and try to use them in a capacity that works within those limitations. They're great to see trends in your ferments, be able to know when to move on to next stages without having to take measurements, and to be able to keep an eye on things from afar with a general reassurance that things are okay. One thing I like to use it for is to check on temp to know when to pitch my yeast or when to add gelatin during cold crashing without having to run out to my garage several times to look at the temp.

AF1HomeBrew said:

Just transferred my beer from the fermentor into the keg and found wort in the Tilt. I was the second beer that I had used it for. I had the thing floating in a star san solution prior to putting it in the fermentor and didn't notice any leak. Dang! I guess I'll look at a few of the recent posts to see I can salvage it.

Click to expand...

I contacted the crew @ Tilt asking if they'd be interested in my BrewOmeter that took on some wort recently. They asked for a photo, which I supplied. They told me that they would ship me a replacement Tilt and I'll send the other one back. Gotta say customer support doesn't get better than that!

Apparently they changed to different gaskets in the newer Tilt models from the BrewOMeter (older model) to supply a better seal.

Yep I can also confirm that the customer support from the Tilt guys is great.

I performed an experiment today. Using a jar of water and adding sugar to it, I compared my glass hydrometer, the TILT and my cheap Chinese refractometer at progressively higher sugar concentrations. I held the temp constant (OK, maybe +/- 1*) until the last couple of readings when I warmed it up to see the effect. I made sure the sugar was well dissolved and used the same sample for each of the devices. I let TILT equalize and 'tapped' it a couple of times to ensure it had no bubbles on it or that it wasn't touching the sides. Using the hydrometer, I was careful to read it correctly. The refractometer was a cleaner line in the eyepiece than I expected and I really only ever had ~ .1* ambiguity......

Bottom line, the TILT has some kind of divergence over the 1.030 to 1.085 range. We're talking about 15% off at its maximum. Ouch.

This explains the low SG reading I had (a few posts back) with the TILT, but doesn't explain the odd peak unless it temporary corrected itself......
Glitch? I wonder if the TILT guys have any calibration graphs like this? Anyone else ever done this comparison?


View attachment TILT comparison.pdf

Hello,

My phone that I've been using to post data from TILT to Google Sheets just died (I guess because being old or because being hooked up to charger all the time). Before I start hunting for new old phone from my friends and family, I'd like to know if I'm able to post data to Google Sheets or Brewstat.us with Raspberry Pi 3? I know that I can use Rasp Pi with TILT, but where it can it post the data? Also have to mention that I'm totally noob what comes to Raspberry and coding, so if I choose to go the Rasp Pi way, I need someone to hold my hand and take me through the steps needed to set up Rasp Pi. Help really appreciated! Cheers from Finland!

Antti

spittybug said:

I performed an experiment today. Using a jar of water and adding sugar to it, I compared my glass hydrometer, the TILT and my cheap Chinese refractometer at progressively higher sugar concentrations. I held the temp constant (OK, maybe +/- 1*) until the last couple of readings when I warmed it up to see the effect. I made sure the sugar was well dissolved and used the same sample for each of the devices. I let TILT equalize and 'tapped' it a couple of times to ensure it had no bubbles on it or that it wasn't touching the sides. Using the hydrometer, I was careful to read it correctly. The refractometer was a cleaner line in the eyepiece than I expected and I really only ever had ~ .1* ambiguity......

Bottom line, the TILT has some kind of divergence over the 1.030 to 1.085 range. We're talking about 15% off at its maximum. Ouch.

This explains the low SG reading I had (a few posts back) with the TILT, but doesn't explain the odd peak unless it temporary corrected itself......
Glitch? I wonder if the TILT guys have any calibration graphs like this? Anyone else ever done this comparison?

Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the time to do this. Your findings seem to match up well to what I said previously about calibrating it in water, and then as soon as I drop it in the wort it's 5-10 points off. If you haven't already, and you don't mind, I'd like to send your findings on to the developers. That okay with you?

That's OK fine with me. I wonder if the multipoint calibration will eliminate this problem though. I could simply 'correct' it to bring it in line with the hydrometer. I don't know the logic their calibration employs. Clarification from them would be great.

Does anyone have an issues where the readings spike up crazy high? and over time gravity increases? If i watch my tilt app, I see my 1.014 nearly finished fermenter spike to 1.285ish every few seconds (along with a drop in temperature of about 10 degrees), and increase to 1.017 over the course of an hour or so.

It's a new unit - seems to work okay in water for the most part (though still get the spikes every once in a while)

Anyone having battery life problems. I put a new battery in mine before this brew and it is done and out after three weeks. Makes it worthless.

Mine has a problem to: battery life seems to be going down every time I change the battery. Yesterday, I put a new battery in while the wort was cooling. My phone was receiving the signal correctly. About one hour later, when I pitched the Tilt in, there was no signal at all. For my previous brew, the battery lasted about 3 weeks. I think I will write to them....

pepindavid said:

Mine has a problem to: battery life seems to be going down every time I change the battery. Yesterday, I put a new battery in while the wort was cooling. My phone was receiving the signal correctly. About one hour later, when I pitched the Tilt in, there was no signal at all. For my previous brew, the battery lasted about 3 weeks. I think I will write to them....

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Glad to hear I am not the only one.