Input from BIABers

oujens · Jun 3, 2016

I'm thinking about switching from a cooler mash tun to BIAB. The main reason is to reduce unnecessary equipment which I think will lead to shorter brew days from less cleaning and management of multiple vessels. I also like the idea to apply direct heat to the mash, if needed. Has anybody else made a similar switch and enjoyed the results?

:mug:

andrewmaixner · Jun 3, 2016

BIAB is great, especially with my old model ANOVA immersion heater to automatically hold mash temp.
I spent the last 5 months doing stovetop BIAB instead of outdoors mash tun + kettle on propane. I liked it so much better, than I have ordered a (admittedly way too fancy) electric BIAB setup for my basement.

(If you want electric at a good price, check out the UniBrau systems. It was a hard decision between that, versus building my own expensive fancy variant.)

JONNYROTTEN · Jun 3, 2016

I started EBIAB and the cleanup is certainly easy.One pot..It still takes me 5 hours on average from setup to completely finished on the couch..Makes great beer.

Morrey · Jun 3, 2016

I BIAB and get great results with high efficiencies and very nice beers. I made a recent post saying I have all the basic equipment for a 3V system...should I switch? The general consensus was that I was far better sticking with my current program than trying to dream up ways to create additional work for myself. Stick with the BIAB and keep life simple.

doug293cz · Jun 3, 2016

Go ahead and try the BIAB. Just make sure you have a plan for suspending the bag for draining (and possibly squeezing) after pulling. A pulley, rack or large colander, etc. work well. Most of the brewers who "hate" BIAB do so because they didn't have a bag management plan.

Once you have tried BIAB, then use whichever method you are more comfortable with. There is no right or wrong answer.

Brew on :mug:

Onkel_Udo · Jun 3, 2016

I did a three tier all-keggle system for almost 20 years. Clean up is better and my efficiency is similar with my redneck all manual eBiaB system.

Clean up is quicker
Brew day is much shorter if I want it to be
Full volume mash holds temp easily with only one layer of relectix

On negatives are double brew days take twice as long verses 75 minutes longer than a single batch and my yield from the same vessel size is only 9 gallons. If I ever pony up for a 20 gallon pot the latter stops being an issue or if I wanted to do a sparge but I have not found it a huge issue (I just slightly under fill both kegs).

BowAholic · Jun 3, 2016

don't worry about hanging the bag unless you really want to... most of us have a few rack that were taken out of refrigerators that we now use for better things... I just lift the bag, then slip a fridge rack onto the kettle and sit the bag on it...

oujens · Jun 3, 2016

Thanks for the responses. I suppose there is no wrong answer. I'm at a point where I have a little money to put towards equipment and I'm leaning to get setup for BIAB. I don't mind lifting grains, and I most likely would only have 10-12 lb grain bills (5g batches). For higher gravity beers, I only make 3 gallons since its mainly me drinking the keg. I would probably use a colander, or I like the idea of an appliance rack. I've got my process with the mash tun dialed in but it gives me some frustration to set it up. I thought about investing in a better kit for it and then it hit me that maybe I should try BIAB. Seems like a simple $30 investment. I like simple.

buzd · Jun 3, 2016

andrewmaixner said:
BIAB is great, especially with my old model ANOVA immersion heater to automatically hold mash temp.
I spent the last 5 months doing stovetop BIAB instead of outdoors mash tun + kettle on propane. I liked it so much better, than I have ordered a (admittedly way too fancy) electric BIAB setup for my basement.

(If you want electric at a good price, check out the UniBrau systems. It was a hard decision between that, versus building my own expensive fancy variant.)

How well does the Anova work for that? Do you do anything about the grain getting into the heating element? What about burning the bag?

I used my Anova for soaking the speciality grains in an extract brew, and it ended up getting part of the bag in the heating element and put a hole in it.

Onkel_Udo · Jun 3, 2016

andrewmaixner said:
(If you want electric at a good price, check out the UniBrau systems. It was a hard decision between that, versus building my own expensive fancy variant.)

Just to be clear for the OP...eBiaB can be as simple as a heat stick and a bag. My 9 gallon (finished product) capable system cost me all told under a $100 since I already owned the keggle.

Two electric water heater elements and two switches plus a bag...done.

doug293cz · Jun 3, 2016

Onkel_Udo said:
Just to be clear for the OP...eBiaB can be as simple as a heat stick and a bag. My 9 gallon (finished product) capable system cost me all told under a $100 since I already owned the keggle.

Two electric water heater elements and two switches plus a bag...done.

Hope there's a GFCI or two in there.

Brew on :mug:

Onkel_Udo · Jun 3, 2016

doug293cz said:
Hope there's a GFCI or two in there.

Brew on

Yeah...the outlet. Did I need to mention the cord too?

doug293cz · Jun 3, 2016

Onkel_Udo said:
Yeah...the outlet. Did I need to mention the cord too?

No need to mention the cord, unless you have figured out how to get the power to the element without one.

GFCI's are a safety critical item for electric brewing, and there are a lot of electrical novices looking into electric brewing, so I like to see GFCI's explicitly mentioned. Especially if a statement that says something like "all it requires is X, Y, Z" is made, with no mention of a GFCI.

Brew on :mug:

JONNYROTTEN · Jun 3, 2016

Originally I was like Meh,GFCI is overkill,never tripped a breaker in my kitchen before.Now after many brews I take serious confort in knowing its there..220 is no joke and the entire brew day revolves around water.I wouldn't think about brewing without it

andrewmaixner · Jun 4, 2016

buzd said:
How well does the Anova work for that? Do you do anything about the grain getting into the heating element? What about burning the bag?

I used my Anova for soaking the speciality grains in an extract brew, and it ended up getting part of the bag in the heating element and put a hole in it.

No, I have not had any problem with that. I was just using a full sized cheap nylon bag from the home-brew store, in a 15gal kettle. I could see how a disposable or very small steeping bag might get through the slots and into the impeller, though.
I put the ANOVA between the bag and the kettle, and clipped the bag to the kettle, around it.

cannman · Jun 4, 2016

You need this episode of Good Eats for bag management, my friend!

https://youtu.be/9yERrR4x62g?t=11m32s

Build it! You can figure everything out from this vantage point.

marc1 · Jun 6, 2016

andrewmaixner said:
No, I have not had any problem with that. I was just using a full sized cheap nylon bag from the home-brew store, in a 15gal kettle. I could see how a disposable or very small steeping bag might get through the slots and into the impeller, though.
I put the ANOVA between the bag and the kettle, and clipped the bag to the kettle, around it.

Very interesting! The wort doesn't gum up the ANOVA?

BeardedBrews · Jun 6, 2016

+1 on planning ahead what you're going to do with the grain bag.

It doesn't have to be fancy, but if you're brewing alone you want to think it through. I couldn't see BIAB without my pulley set-up, but there are other ways to do it.

SanPancho · Jun 6, 2016

marc1 said:
Very interesting! The wort doesn't gum up the ANOVA?

it gets dirty, but its pretty easy to clean. the stainless tube comes off easily, no more than 30 seconds in the sink to clean.

i also use it for holding temps in whirlpool, and in that case you'll need to do a bit more cleaning as hop particles will get in between the heat coils. i use a thin piece of metal, or even a paper clip would work. not much more work than a normal cleaning really.

i also do more 1 and 2.5 gal batches, so not sure how well it holds up to 5-6-7 gallons of liquid in terms of heating, but i still have my pot on the stove so you can always turn on a burner for a bit if you want to raise temp quickly.

and yes, you do want to figure out some way to drain the bag. colanders, wire racks, etc. i found a hole in the sheet metal of my stove fan hood and put in a hook- bag hangs over pot and drains while it also cools- but the time im getting up towards boil temps the bag is cool enough that i can use my bare hands to squeeze it. and if you dont mind doing a quick wash of one more pot, a dunk sparge of your grains in a second pot with cool water still pulls out sugars, gets you a few points in efficiency.

andrewmaixner · Jun 6, 2016

marc1 said:
Very interesting! The wort doesn't gum up the ANOVA?

I have not had a problem with that. I wash it well after use.

kh54s10 · Jun 6, 2016

I for one DO NOT prefer biab. If you mash 60 minutes and boil 60 minutes there is virtually no time savings. Clean up of my water cooler mash tun is MUCH easier than cleaning out the BIAB bag.

The only real difference is one vessel.

My HLT does not need to be cleaned, my mash tun just takes a quick rinse and the BK is the same as with BIAB.

No hot wet sticky heavy messy bag or pulley system to contend with.

doug293cz · Jun 6, 2016

kh54s10 said:
I for one DO NOT prefer biab. If you mash 60 minutes and boil 60 minutes there is virtually no time savings. Clean up of my water cooler mash tun is MUCH easier than cleaning out the BIAB bag.

The only real difference is one vessel.

My HLT does not need to be cleaned, my mash tun just takes a quick rinse and the BK is the same as with BIAB.

No hot wet sticky heavy messy bag or pulley system to contend with.

Why the hate? Don't like BIAB, don't do it. No need to bash it.

kh54s10 said:
... my mash tun just takes a quick rinse ...

The heavy, wet, sticky grain just disappears into thin air? No, you still have to scoop the grain out and carry it somewhere, or carry the MLT somewhere and dump it, and even with a tippy-dump MLT, you still have to move the spent grain somewhere. If you brew, you have to empty and haul heavy, wet, sticky spent grain. How much effort that is depends on how efficient your methods are. I drop the bag in a homer bucket and carry it to the yard waste bin. Little mess, no fuss.

kh54s10 said:
... pulley system to contend with.

Really, do pulleys seem complex to you?

Brew on :mug:

oujens · Jun 6, 2016

I appreciate an opposing view of BIAB. I want to see it through the eyes of someone you has used a bag and a mash tun to tell me their preference and why. I think eliminating a mash tun might also eliminate some variables such as dead space and leaks. I know I can take steps in advance to address this, but eliminating the worry would be nice. I also think being able to add direct heat is a benefit to get away from infusions for step mashes or to raise the initial mash temp if you miss on the low side. I think I have my mind made up to give BIAB a try, but I was curious what some people feel a mash tun provides that BIAB cannot. The only thing I can think of is the cooler has insulation built in, but we can take steps to insulate our kettles to retain heat.

ScrewyBrewer · Jun 6, 2016

Having switched from a gas powered 3 vessel system, to a single vessel eBIAB system myself a few years ago I can tell you that having a grain hoist is a necessity. It is amazing how heavy 24 pounds of grain becomes after it has been mashed. As for saving time, well dumping a mesh bag full of wet grains is way easier than rinsing them out of a mash tun for me.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/indoor-brewing-clearing-air.html

doug293cz · Jun 6, 2016

oujens said:
I appreciate an opposing view of BIAB. I want to see it through the eyes of someone you has used a bag and a mash tun to tell me their preference and why. I think eliminating a mash tun might also eliminate some variables such as dead space and leaks. I know I can take steps in advance to address this, but eliminating the worry would be nice. I also think being able to add direct heat is a benefit to get away from infusions for step mashes or to raise the initial mash temp if you miss on the low side. I think I have my mind made up to give BIAB a try, but I was curious what some people feel a mash tun provides that BIAB cannot. The only thing I can think of is the cooler has insulation built in, but we can take steps to insulate our kettles to retain heat.

I am all in favor of multiple opinions, and in depth comparisons. In fact I ran a poll on the BIAB vs. 3 vessel topic some time ago, for pretty much the same reason you started this thread.

What bothers me is slanted (either intentional or unintentional) arguments that omit material facts, misrepresent facts, or use inflammatory phrasing in an attempt to sway readers. I want to see fair comparisons.

In my first reply to this thread, I specifically brought up bag management as something that needs to be dealt with, because it causes issues for some brewers who try BIAB.

Brew on :mug:

Onkel_Udo · Jun 6, 2016

kh54s10 said:
No hot wet sticky heavy messy bag or pulley system to contend with.

See, different strokes. One of the major advantages for me is I can no longer lift the mash tun full of wet grains to dump it so I would have to stand on a ladder and muck out the majority of the grains before carrying it to the trash can to dump the rest...anything else would have required a more complex mechanical arrangement than my one ratcheting pulley.

I can say unequivocally that the the clean up from gas, three tier to electric BaiB is enormously different for me. BaiB is short duration but also less overhead lifting. I do now have to haul those heavy wet grains up the stairs but that is only if I choose to brew inside.

BeardedBrews · Jun 6, 2016

Before I went electric on my BIAB I did a couple batches on Gas in a 7.5 gallon pot. I could only do moderate gravity 4 gallon batches without overflowing, but it worked great. The pot was small enough to use a paint strainer from the hardware store, but the Wilser or TheBrewBag bags are much nicer. With my pot mostly full and a bunch of towels wrapped around the pot I didn't have to add heat for a 60 minute mash.

If you're coming from extract just remember that you might need to consider mineral additions to your water in order to see the best results.

andrewmaixner · Jun 7, 2016

Onkel_Udo said:
See, different strokes. One of the major advantages for me is I can no longer lift the mash tun full of wet grains to dump it so I would have to stand on a ladder and muck out the majority of the grains before carrying it to the trash can to dump the rest...anything else would have required a more complex mechanical arrangement than my one ratcheting pulley.
I can say unequivocally that the the clean up from gas, three tier to electric BaiB is enormously different for me. BaiB is short duration but also less overhead lifting. I do now have to haul those heavy wet grains up the stairs but that is only if I choose to brew inside.

That was my problem also. in a 75qt cooler, a 30-40 lb grain bill, plus retained liquid (even after letting it fully drain into the sink while completing the brew day, it was still having a grain absorption similar to "squeezed BIAB" amount of 0.1gal/lb, adding 24 to 32 lbs to grain and cooler mass)

Sure I could deadlift 300 at the gym, but even 80 in a cooler is an entirely different thing (balance, moving, bad CG, breakable handles).

Looking forward to the rest of the parts arriving for my full-sized 20gal eBIAB setup with pulley.

Note: you can mash in a bag in a cooler, with a pulley, and kind of mix some of the benefits and drawbacks of mash/sparge vs. BIAB brewing.

oujens · Jun 8, 2016

Thanks for the responses everyone. I have done some more reading about things I have not thought about, and one is bag management. I normally brew 5.5 gallon batches at <1.060 OG. I would project a max grain bill of 13 lbs because if I made really big beers they would be a smaller 3 gallon batch. Doing the math, I think max weight of the bag after mashing would be 25 lbs. For me, this doesn't seem to be that heavy to lift out and place something under it to drain back into the kettle. Am I underestimating the difficulty in lifting the bag? I imagine it could be a little different than lifting a 25 lb dumbbell.

Thanks

andrewmaixner · Jun 8, 2016

oujens said:
Thanks for the responses everyone. I have done some more reading about things I have not thought about, and one is bag management. I normally brew 5.5 gallon batches at <1.060 OG. I would project a max grain bill of 13 lbs because if I made really big beers they would be a smaller 3 gallon batch. Doing the math, I think max weight of the bag after mashing would be 25 lbs. For me, this doesn't seem to be that heavy to lift out and place something under it to drain back into the kettle. Am I underestimating the difficulty in lifting the bag? I imagine it could be a little different than lifting a 25 lb dumbbell.

Thanks

It shouldn't be very hard, just remember that angles and body mechanics matter. The farther from your center of gravity (belly button) the load is, the harder it gets.
A 5'5" person lifting a #25 bag out of a 20 inch tall kettle on top of a high stovetop will have more difficulty than a 6'5" person lifting the same thing. If only lifting #25 out of a low kettle on a low burner in your garage, then it probably will be quite easy.
A household ladder and cheep pulley make it very easy if they work for your setup.

Input from BIABers

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

BIABer, Beer Math Nerd, ePanel Designer, Pilot

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

BIABer, Beer Math Nerd, ePanel Designer, Pilot

Well-Known Member

BIABer, Beer Math Nerd, ePanel Designer, Pilot

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Beer Theorist

Supporting Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Supporting Member

BIABer, Beer Math Nerd, ePanel Designer, Pilot

Well-Known Member

ezRecipe - The Easy Way To Awesome Beer!

BIABer, Beer Math Nerd, ePanel Designer, Pilot

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads