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Hop goodness gone after 1 month in keg

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MadHomebrewer

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So this is my first time kegging. I made a Citra/MO SMASH that I had dry hopped. Now after a month in the keg, I'm my opinion the hop flavors have fallen off. I'm thinking of opening up the keg and dropping in a tea infuser ball with an ounce of Citra. The beer is still good I just miss it's hoppyness!
 
Lol so thats funny. I just bought my keg system and will be kegging my citra/2 row SMaSH IPA. Dry hopped as well.

Im interested in why yours lost its floral notes. Over carb?
 
Hops aroma and flavour dissipates fairly quickly. It's not surprising to me at all that the hops were a lot more prominent when the beer was first fresh. You could add some hops to the keg, but most people would probably just suggest that you drink faster.
 
funny thing about kegging, gravity can be our friend or not in this case. because of gravity and the cold which makes it happen even faster, hop oils drop to the bottom and thats where the pick up tube is, so when we drink we drink most of the flavor first and as time goes on hop oils diminish because we drank most of it already
 
How far has it actually fallen off? Or did your tongue just get used to the upfront hop flavor before it mellowed some?
 
Mac and Jack's brewery in Redmond, WA puts a bag of hops into every keg of IPA where it stays until the keg is returned to them. I think you have a good idea.
 
I'm probably gonna add an ounce or 2 to a hoppy pale ale I brewed. Did 10 gallons and it's about 2-3 weeks in the keg now. I have 5 taps so I mix up which beers I drink. It's starting to lose a little punch now. I assume I'll tap the second keg of pale ale in 2-3 more weeks. Worried it will be a bit bland so I plan on hanging one of those hop balls in there. Never done it before but I'll report back.
 
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What's your process for transferring from the fermenter to the keg? While hop flavor and aroma will always faid rapid loss of hop flavors can be caused by oxidation.
 
Siphonless big mouth. Should be very little oxidation.
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How are you purging the keg? If you just opened the lid and syphoned definitely above "recommended" O2 levels, if you purged with a constant flow of CO2 most likely above O2 levels unless you used a lot of gas, multi step purge with pressure most likely above O2 levels unless you purged a bunch.

May or may not be your issue, but hop flavor and aroma will be affected greatly by O2 presence. Any other changes? did the beer visibly darken?

From another thread:

The issue with what you describe is that is it is not how gases interact (although you do acknowledge that the gasses will mix :)). Pushing a cubic meter of O2 into the bottom of a carboy/keg/whatever does not mean that you push a cubic meter of the gas that is in the top of the carboy out. For the pressure to exert on gas in the top the particles underneath must push on it. Mixing of gases in this environment is very fast. In reality the gas "pushed" out of the top of the container is a mixture of what was in the container to begin with and what was added. The size opening in the top of the vessel has zero affect on the mixing of the gases internally (unless the opening is small enough for the internal gas to pressurize). The flow rate will have the effect of higher flow will promote faster mixing of the gasses but offset diffusion from outside of the container.

Quick math on a 5 gallon container with the assumptions of below shows the amount of #'s CO2 and PPM of O2 remaining with a "constant" flush. If you want to ignore all technical publications/books I have found or say that you drink your beer before oxidation effects take place then do so.... however, it can not be said that methods other than vacuum/pressure combination or positive displacement of liquids reduces concentration of 02 to a the range recommended by all technical sources. One of these days I'm going to find a decent dissolved O2 meter for cheap and get some empirical results.

Many people do ignore O2, many people don't control fermentation temp, many people ignore yeast counts, many people do lots of things and still make decent to good beer.

1.standard atmospheric conditions
2.mean free paths are not calculated, gases are assume to mix (this will make the calc slightly conservative)
3.Simplified to multiple small steps to eliminate integration
4.flow rate effects are not considered
5.pressurization of the vessel due to inlet vs discharge flow rates are not considered

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hahaha :)

The drop is rapid...However when I stopped copy pasting iterations I was sitting at .068#'s of CO2 used and >1,500ppm O2 remaining! I of course made some assumptions, and this is likely conservative however illustrates the trend....an open air purge will never get to what I consider an OK oxygen concentration. Pushing sanitizer will use LESS gas and get a much LOWER O2 content with little to no additional effort.

Sources used to teach brewing science such as Brewing Science and Practice are of course more stringent than most homebrewers and assume the finished product should be consistent and have a several month shelf life.

Commercially, piping and fermenters are flushed with nitrogen, alternatively the beer is supersaturated with CO2 during transfer so that when it arrives at the location it is being transferred to it off gasses CO2 itself and displaces the air in the vessel. Or they fill the receiving tank with a deaerated (I don't go this far!!!) liquor that they push out with CO2.

Target for transfer to a brite tank (secondary) is around 50ppm or less. At the end of maturation the target should be <0.01ppm and at packing should be <0.2ppm.

Of course these targets are unreasonable with homebrewing equipment and are exacerbated by the use (sometimes) of pasteurization. However roughly 1ppm is enough to oxidize all reductones in a light beer, of course darker beers will require more and the off flavors will be harder to detect.

Yes I would say ALL brew is oxidized to a point, with MOST homebrew exceeding the commercial recommendations and a Majority of it contributing to off tastes either immediately or over time.

All the dissolved oxygen limits here come from Brewing Science and Practice. Attached are curves made by doug293cz showing the oxygen content of pressure purged vessels.
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Success! 24 hours in the keg and all it's hoppyness has been restored! Going to start doing this to all my hoppy beers!
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Excellent! Now we need a report on whether leaving the hops in the beer for an extended period leads to a grassy taste as some have reported with leaving hops in the fermenter too long.:ban:
 
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