Holy spinning carboys batman!!

So I've got this quasi-unrealistic idea involving whirling carboys and secondary fermentation. Stay with me.
The purpose of secondary fermentation is not entirely to ferment, but to settle out the yeast and other heavier goodies so they are not in the beer. The effects are noticeable and pleasing, but this step adds another two weeks to the already long process of homebrewing.
So, what if we could accelerate this process by means of a centrifuge? Picture a weed wacker motor hooked to some apparatus that could safely support a spinning carboy and keep it balanced. The carboy needs another sleeve/mounting appratus. I think balancing would be the biggest problem. Feel free to whip up some free body diagrams. Is this plausable? Or, "Busted"?

Here is a cheap drawing i made in MSPaint in 10 minutes:

So you get the idea. Keep in mind nothing is to scale (or color for that matter).

sounds ridiculous and very dangerous...i'll take two

Some commercial brewers are using centrifuges to clear up wort and/or young beer. So the idea of faster sedimentatiion through centrifugal forces is known.

http://www.used-brewery-centrifuges.com/
http://www.nikema.de/separator-ue6/hf-separator-ue6.html

I'm not sure how safe your contraption is since you have to balance it very well to avoid uneven rotation.

Kai

I'd think a weed whacker motor (2 cycle) would not work very well. No torque, high RPM. Not ideal for this application. How about a geared down 110v furnace blower motor?

I'll just wait my two weeks.

You meant to post this last saturday, right?

Assuming you're serious tho...secondary is about much more than simply clearing your beer. Here's a good read by Ray Daniels on secondary fermentation.

Kaiser said:

Some commercial brewers are using centrifuges to clear up wort and/or young beer. So the idea of faster sedimentatiion through centrifugal forces is known.

http://www.used-brewery-centrifuges.com/
http://www.nikema.de/separator-ue6/hf-separator-ue6.html

I'm not sure how safe your contraption is since you have to balance it very well to avoid uneven rotation.

Kai

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And I thought I had invented something. Darn. At least I know the principle is good.

Kevin K said:

I'd think a weed whacker motor (2 cycle) would not work very well. No torque, high RPM. Not ideal for this application. How about a geared down 110v furnace blower motor?

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Yeah the WW motor is a bad example, I would want a nice smooth electric motor and some gear reduction for better control when ramping up the spin speed.

After I rack to the carboy I let is settle a while then I tilt the carboy on it's bottom, like 5 degrees. Then I'll roll it around on the bottom rim. Much like we do with a glass of beer or bottle on the bar.

Do that several times and it'll start a centrifigal motion.

I also spin my bottled beer after they've been in the bottle a day or two. Same effect and results.

El Pistolero said:

You meant to post this last saturday, right?

Assuming you're serious tho...secondary is about much more than simply clearing your beer. Here's a good read by Ray Daniels on secondary fermentation.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the link.

Kevin K said:

Thanks for the link.

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Yeah I was neglecting the other processes like diacetyl consumption (yum).

homebrewer_99 said:

I also spin my bottled beer after they've been in the bottle a day or two. Same effect and results.

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spin them on which axis? lying on their sides, or standing upright?

-walker

That diagram should be on wikipedia under the title "spinning machine of doom" Honestly though, that thing scares me.

I can't see the point of what you want to do here beerlover84? Seems a little dangerous spinning glass carboys, and as El. P. points out, time is an important factor in fermentation (both primary and secondary). No amount of centrifugal force will cause the yeast to do there job any better / quicker (IMHO...flavour changes take time)...in fact you may disorientate the little blighters and cause them to make bud light!

Saying that, you have an inventive spirit...which is cool in Home Brewing..so keep 'em coming!

BlightyBrewer said:

I can't see the point of what you want to do here beerlover84? Seems a little dangerous spinning glass carboys, and as El. P. points out, time is an important factor in fermentation (both primary and secondary). No amount of centrifugal force will cause the yeast to do there job any better / quicker (IMHO...flavour changes take time)...in fact you may disorientate the little blighters and cause them to make bud light!

Saying that, you have an inventive spirit...which is cool in Home Brewing..so keep 'em coming!

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Haha well I certainly don't want bud light produced from "confused" yeasts. Oh well, I'll just have to keep it up the old fashiond way. Off to the casino!

Kevin K said:

I'd think a weed whacker motor (2 cycle) would not work very well. No torque, high RPM. Not ideal for this application. How about a geared down 110v furnace blower motor?

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better get a hemi...

What about aeration? I cant see how that contraption would gently spin the beer around without getting air absorbed into it.

How about you put the carboy up into space in orbit around a black hole? That way one day for you on earth will be like 250 million years for the beer. And there's no oxygen to boot...

Bjorn Borg said:

What about aeration? I cant see how that contraption would gently spin the beer around without getting air absorbed into it.

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If the carboy's headspace were filled with CO2, no issues.

However, this seems about as safe as Alchemist's desire to boil water directly in the carboy.

We've got some mad scientists in the house today!


-walker

If you really want to spin the carboy as well, not like the commercial beer and wort centrifuges, you need to build a big version of the centrifuges that they use in laboratories. This would be safer, but still way to complicated to get right. Especially the balancing of the load to get an even rotation.

Kai

Imperial Walker said:

spin them on which axis? lying on their sides, or standing upright?-walker

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On it's bottom rim.

Grab the neck of the carboy and tip it about 1-2" and start a circle swirling motion about a 4" circle. Do this about 3-5 turns and set it upright again.

The turning of the carboy and the weight of the liquid will start a cyclonic movement.

BlightyBrewer said:

in fact you may disorientate the little blighters and cause them to make bud light!

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Dang Blighty...you just made me spit out half a beer.

t1master said:

better get a hemi...

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Stop! I'm crying already.

Bjorn Borg said:

How about you put the carboy up into space in orbit around a black hole? That way one day for you on earth will be like 250 million years for the beer. And there's no oxygen to boot...

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No really I mean it...stop...I'm gonna choke on my tongue.

The plan might work better in space, but I can see what he's getting at. Secondary fermentation aside, if you could spin it fast enough, you could clear the heck out of a carboy of beer ! Even putting the carboy on a swing would help. The centrifugal force would cause the " Hoppy Goodness" to settle out quicker. In theory, of course. Be a stupid way to bust a carboy !

sudsmonkey said:

The plan might work better in space, but I can see what he's getting at. Secondary fermentation aside, if you could spin it fast enough, you could clear the heck out of a carboy of beer ! Even putting the carboy on a swing would help. The centrifugal force would cause the " Hoppy Goodness" to settle out quicker. In theory, of course. Be a stupid way to bust a carboy !

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OMG! Wait till the wife sees what I'm using the baby swing for! This is going to be some happy beer.

Don't forget to use a soothing tune at the same time.

sudsmonkey said:

The plan might work better in space, but I can see what he's getting at. Secondary fermentation aside, if you could spin it fast enough, you could clear the heck out of a carboy of beer ! Even putting the carboy on a swing would help. The centrifugal force would cause the " Hoppy Goodness" to settle out quicker. In theory, of course. Be a stupid way to bust a carboy !

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A swing, eh?.........

Why don't you just buy the nylon strap that you put your carboy in? Tie the handles with a rope and spin the sucker?

How about using a motorized lazy-susan or other turntable. Put the center of the carboy directly over the spinning axis and do the cyclonic action that way. There's another use for that record player sitting in the garage...

Nah ! That would just cause the solids to move to the wall of the carboy.
Maybe if the carboy were taken to a planet with a higher gravity than ours ?
We gotta think this thing through.

LOL you guys are so funny. but I am drunk so thatz ezy. high gravity lol. maybe jupiter??

Bjorn Borg said:

How about you put the carboy up into space in orbit around a black hole? That way one day for you on earth will be like 250 million years for the beer. And there's no oxygen to boot...

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YOU FOOL! 250 million years in the carboy would cause autolysis!!

NASA did some experiments where they brewed beer in space. Apparently the yeast produced similar beer to the control on earth, except there was a lower cell count, and a high amount of a certain stress-protein produced in space. The toughest obstacle was that the carbonation due to lack of bouyancy does not stay in solution, which creates a foamy mass.
View attachment 111View attachment 112
the first pic is a drop of coke in zero gravity
the second is the fermentor they used on the space shuttle, the yeild was 1 ml of beer...the bad news is that the experiment was funded by COORS!!!

sudsmonkey said:

Nah ! That would just cause the solids to move to the wall of the carboy...We gotta think this thing through.

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If you wanted to syphon from the center this would work!

Hmm, why don't you go down to your local school playground strap the carboy on its side bottom facing out right before recess. Then the kids come out and do the spinning. I know they can't hit the 35,000 RPMs required to centrifuge human blood but some of those little suckers get it prety fast lol.:cross: