Kottbusser - A style deserving of revival!

I would throw it in. Then again, mine was in at flameout. The WL029 is fine at that temp, though at this point, you may want to ramp it up to 68-70 if you have the capability via a heating pad, etc. Should be fine either way.

Got no heating pad, & it's been so cold, even double wrapped, it's been between 62-63F. Might just do it to get it jump started again? Needs to go lower than 1.014.

Just added 1.3ozs of clover honey & .6oz of unsulphured molasses to 1 3/4C of fermented beer in primary. Should be wort at least .002 gravity points. First FG reading was 1.014 several days ago,so this last addition should give a touch more color & more of that natural grain sweet/tart thing I got a taste of last time. Final stretch before bottling & the beer looked perfect. Amber color in the fermenter, mostly clear with only little touches of krausen left.

I bottled last night! It really was a beautiful color, and I'm sure I hit that SRM. I stayed at 4oz of honey and 2oz of molasses to stay at the prescribed percentages. Based on the sample I had last night, it's great. I'll report back in a week or two when it's carbed.

With that said, I'm really worried my mash pH problem is going to raise its ugly head and ruin this. If it's good, I'll try to send it out ASAP! (before it has a chance to spoil). If it's not good, I'll rebrew. On the bright side, said mash pH problem is now under control.

Did the FG samples taste good? Mine was great, albeit still very misty with yeast floating around at that point. Clearer today, but the FG sample did have a little of that sweet/tart thing already. We'll see how it is in about a week. I imagine it'll be ready to bottle this weekend or next week. I'll carb & condition them for a couple weeks then a couple days fridge time before shipping.

unionrdr said:

Did the FG samples taste good? Mine was great, albeit still very misty with yeast floating around at that point. Clearer today, but the FG sample did have a little of that sweet/tart thing already. We'll see how it is in about a week. I imagine it'll be ready to bottle this weekend or next week. I'll carb & condition them for a couple weeks then a couple days fridge time before shipping.

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Mine was great! The couple of batches I had that took a turn for the worse did so over time, though. So, the plan is to drink this quick!

I'm still pondering exactly what roll the acidulated malt will end up playing in this one? I think it might have a little to do with the sweet/tart thing?

I'm at 4 weeks in bottle. I tried a bottle last week and it was still flat, but tasted incredible! I so want to drink it now, but I'm going to give it another week, in hopes that it'll carb up.

I'm definitely going to make this beer again, but I think next time I'm going to prime with honey to see how different it turns out. I'll save some of these bottles so that I can compare to my next Kotbusser.

Well, after putting the honey & molasses-unsulphured, which turned out to be "gold molasses"- in primary a couple days ago during a warm spell, I saw the liquid level in the airlock going up & down. It bubbled a couple times in 2 days as well. Hoping it finishes sometime this weekend. Supposed to be mid 30's to upper 40's next week.

Well that didn't last. I had to try it again tonight. PERFECT. Lightly carbonated, taste wonderful. Funny how little honey will affect the taste.

Alas, my Kotty keg kicked. The last glass. Hopefully, the end to this Wisconsin winter as well.View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1425762769.766977.jpg

Nice color. I'm giving mine this warmer weekend with kerosene heater going to see if I can get the FG down to 1.010-1.012. Definitely be bottled next week. After at least 5 days fridge time, I should be ready to ship some bottles out. So anyone wanting to trade, save some in the basement or fridge & we'll get it done. I'll let y'all know in this thread a day or so before I'm ready to pack & ship. Hopefully, my son's new car part boxes will do?!...

Reviving this thread. I brewed this recently, 2 small 1.5 gallon batches. Bottling today, both taste great precarbonation.

I bottled on the 3/2/2015. I tried a bottle Monday, and it was luscious. Much softer mouthfeel than I expected and surprisingly bready. It was very good, but it does still need another week or two in the bottle to really snap.

Mine appears to be done from the fermentation of the honey & molasses additions. I'll check it in the morning. If it's done, I may go ahead & bottle it, providing the FG is low enough.

Well, dang. I thought my bottling bucket was rinsed out & ready to sanitize & start bottling. Nope. Found some beer & dregs in the bottom with islands of mold floating on the puddles that thickened. Now I gotta clean, sanitize,etc before bottling commences. Gotta get it bottled today to be ready to ship out mid-April. Been so cold, it took primary & secondary ferment some time to get done.

Per request, here's a shot of the 2nd FG sample after the honey & molasses additions about a week & a half ago. Color is more golden than in pic.

1st FG was 1.014, 2nd FG just now is 1.010, since my hydrometer says to read at the top of the meniscus. Still misty, but dry finish per historic descriptions. Less of that sweet/tart thing it had on the back in 1st FG sample. But, at least it's a bit dry as it was said to be. Since it's been 5 weeks & 1 day today, going to bottle it @ 2.3 Vco2.

Well, things got interesting after my previous post. I was looking at NB's priming calculator to see how much dextrose for the beer at 65F, 5 gallons @ 2.3 Vco2. Then a customer service rep jumps in on the little chat window. He told me to contact one Kirsten England at the BJCP who knows a lot about Euro beers. No such name listed. Contact Gordon Strong, mid-atlantic rep & President of BJCP. It turns out Dr England is a friend of his. So he forwarded my E-mail to him. Dr England is Educational Director Emeritus, Grand Master III beer judge. I'd basically mentioned the historical records listing "light carbonation". I then asked what he thought that'd mean. His response was; " To me, light carbonation is lower than that. Somewhere between 2-2.2 would be "low" to me. That being said, what it was historically & what it tastes best at are two completely different things. I would carbonate it to about 2.4-2.5. That's a little under most styles that aren't cask or nitro & I've found splits the difference pretty well". So I'm now thinking of going with 2.4 Vco2, or 4.04ozs dextrose @ 65F for 5 gallons.

Why is that sample so cloudy? At five weeks it should be crystal clear. You can't even see the hydrometer in the tube.

I thought you said because you strain your wort that you get clear brews.

It was about 50% clearer or more before I added the lil bit of honey & molasses. No film or anything on top. It was completely normal. IDK what's going on, but I hope it isn't infected by a suck back or something? Even WL029 I used on this one acts better than that/ Dang, I hop it isn't ruined at 5 weeks & a couple days?

I was just reading about this in Mosher's Radical Brewing. It looked interesting. Let us know how it turns out.

unionrdr said:

It was about 50% clearer or more before I added the lil bit of honey & molasses. No film or anything on top. It was completely normal. IDK what's going on, but I hope it isn't infected by a suck back or something? Even WL029 I used on this one acts better than that/ Dang, I hop it isn't ruined at 5 weeks & a couple days?

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I hope it turns out! All you can do at this point, I suppose, is wait and see. Maybe you'll get that tartness after all.

I think I aimed for 2.2 or 2.3 on my carbonation, and I ended up with a higher volume of beer than I had planned for. So I undershot on it, and I probably have ~2.1 volumes of CO2. I honestly wouldn't change it. It has plenty of head, and the low CO2 gives it a very soft, round feel.

I think you may well turn out to be right about the tartness. "Heart of Tartness" maybe? It also has that nice dry finish that the historical records said it had. so I may just get what I hoped for anyway? I got the priming solution cooling now. 4.04 ounces of dextrose to make 2.4 Vco2 That is the minimum Dr England recommended.
** Just finished bottling a couple minutes ago. Got 52-12oz bottles. Interesting of note is the fact that the beer wasn't cloudy, merely slightly misty. Apparently, the spigot was nearly plugged when I took the last gravity sample. I went to bottle, & a bunch of clods of trub & yeast blew out! So the beer itself was nearly clear. Never had that happen before? Must've been some fermentation going on in that bucket over 5 weeks plus. A relief, certainly. Looks like it'll be a straw gold pilsner color.

Well, the bottled beers are clearing quite nicely. That's a relief to see, considering how it looked in the hydrometer tube. Not bad considering it's been bottled only 5 days. A couple more weeks & it's fridge time. Been saving boxes in hopes we can get some trades going for analysis.

Well, it'll be 3 weeks in bottles this Saturday, finally. I'll get maybe 6 bottles in the fridge for the final phase at that time. Cleared nicely so far. Definitely a light colored beer. Interesting that the wiki page on German beers lists it under weizen beers? It does use a couple pounds of German wheat malt, but it never struck me as a wheat, or a kristalweizen? It is described as an heirloom style, however. Can't wait till next week to taste the final result.

Well, I finally got 12 bottles in the fridge last night. It was almost crystal clear, off just a bit. I think it's due to the 3lbs of German wheat malt though. We'll see how it clears up maybe Saturday. It's a light golden color from what I see in the lighter amber German bottles. I can't wait to taste it & post a pic in the glass.

Great! The oats are probably contributing some as well. I am on deck for my Kotty rebrew this weekend. Need to build up my yeast starter this week in anticipation.

I forgot about the 12ozs of flaked oats in the mash. You could well be right there. I can't wait to trade some & see what the rest of you came up with. I want to add some other versions of the kottbusser recipe to book 2 of my home brewing adventures.

I just checked my supply, and it doesn't exist. I have two bottles left! They need to get out of my house, or they'll be gone too.

I'd like to try one, good sir? Mine'll be ready to go out this weekend.

Starter with the WL 029 is on the stir plate. Shaping up for a weekend brew. Given that I have had 3 kegs kick in the last 40 days, pretty poor planning on my part. Tempted to do a double batch with the Kotty and something a bit quicker.

Mine'll be ready for a 1st sampling this weekend. The first twelve bottles anyway. There's plenty more. While writing more of my next HB book, I got inspired to write the next iteration of Hopped & Confused, version four. I hope this one gets me closer to that "real beer flavor" that started me down this road of happy madness. I'll be sending a bottle of kottbusser off to barley-bob this weekend or so.

OK, here's a shot of a glass of the first bottle. Light golden color that seems to be the norm here. Doesn't hold a head for long like most common lagers. That's the WL029 yeast working with the ingredients, which included half a Whirlfloc tablet. But it's not as dry as the last FG sample alluded to. A bit of dry-malty sweetness. With a bit of that barnyard thing common to saisons. But still, not quite the same in regard to the flavor. A few of you will have to try a bottle & compare to yours. It's starting to look like I'll be posting a few slightly different recipes from y'all in my 2nd HB book? I'll be interested in what you folks have to say about my version!

Well, having fermented it with WL029, it looks like two weeks lagering time in the fridge is working to get rid of that barnyard flavor. @ 8 days, it tasted more like it has a hint of sweetness on the back. The dry finish hasn't returned yet though, but we'll see this weekend. Barley bob, I'll be sending you a bottle soon. Just gotta wait till maybe Friday, 5/1 to get the money to ship it. It'll be in the fridge nearly two weeks at that point.

Sounds good, man! Mine's been in a the fridge a while... But it's a great beer. I'll get mine in the mail to you soon. Been busy.

So, my plans to brew the Kottbusser on Sunday exactly as I did in early November hit a few road bumps. First, I found much lower extraction efficiency combined with a higher volume of pre-boil wort. I removed 1.5-2 gallons from my brew pot and boiled it separately on the gas stove indoors while the brew kettle was on the burner in the garage. As these were not first runnings, I am not overly concerned with a wort carmelization, ala a Scotch Ale. This way, I did not have to worry about a boil over on my kettle. No hops had been added yet, so I didn't have that worry.

I suspect it is time for a new SS braid on my batch sparge set-up and I may have run of the sparge a little quicker than last time and there are a few larger gaps in the braid.

Second discover was this morning. I added my flame out hops but not the honey + molasses. Doh! I almost brewed an Oatmeal Kolsch. No biggie, as I will add them to the fermentors tonight. Yes, fermentors, as I split the batch between two carboys after having to clean up a blow off mess last batch. I would rather soak two Better Bottles in PBW than clean out my fermentation fridge again and lose beer in the process! Plus, the smaller batch of yeast cake in one of the carboys might be about right for something that is higher gravity down the road.

<<QUESTION>> Should I bother adding some of the honey and molasses to each fermentor, or just add it to one, as I plan to combine them back together when I keg?

It will be interesting to see the difference from my previous batch, though it may be harder to pinpoint the cause of differences due to inadvertently changing two parameters. I will look forward to reading the tasting feedback from you bottle sharers if some of you added the sugars in the kettle vs. during fermentation.

A last note, I can confirm that the WL029 is very happy fermenting at 60 degrees with a healthy pitch, having done so the last two batches. This is in contrast of the minimum temperature on their description. I will let it go for 4 days at 60 and then slowly ramp up to 70 over 5 days, hold it there for 4 days before a gradual 1-2 week ramp down to 34 to be held there for a month.

I added the molasses & honey near the end of primary. You could add them to one, since they'll be mixed later? After 4 weeks & two days in the bottles at cold room temps, then 5 days fridge time, it tasted like a saison until about 8 days fridge time. then it just had a slight hint of sweetness on the back. So it seems it does indeed need some lagering time. I'll see what it's like at two weeks. As will billy club & a couple others that want to trade.

Our first spam post! Our little thread is all grown up.

It happens at puberty, it seems? Gotta look around for the right size boxes to ship bottles out in.

Sub'd.

The Zymurgy article peaked my interest in this beer. Planning on brewing the Zymurgy recipe in a month or 2.