What Water Profile for a Hefeweizen

[Scut_Monkey]

Brewing a Hefe tomorrow and trying to figure out what water profile to use. I was going to emulate Munich's profile but looking at the residual alkalinity Palmer's method calculates that I would need a much darker beer to handle it. So what water is typically used in brewing a hefeweizen?

The SRM for the beer is 3.6 and I'll be using DI water as base. Any thoughts which would be the best from BeerSmith. Thanks.

 

[Mattbastard]

I dont use any of those fancy-schmancy calculators, I made my own spread sheet based on the water profile chart in How to Brew. My water is hard, and I just cut it by 75% with Distilled water.

 

[HarkinBanks]

I just made a slightly hoppy wheat beer and used Mosher's Ideal Pale Ale profile. I use Brewater and it seemed to fit the SRM, RA and C/L ratio that I needed. Haven't tried the beer yet though. I'm still a water building noob.

Ca=120
SO4=269
Mg=19
Na=27
Cl=70
Carb=65
Hard=377
Alk=57

RA=-48
Cl/Sulfate .24
Very Bitter

 

[Bobby_M]

I would go somewhere between pilsen and munich. Hit the minimums on Ca and Mg and keep the Cl:SO4 low and equal.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

Well I didn't get any responses in time for my brewing so I went with info that I found on here and the green forum. Then I got frustrated and designed my own water. I wanted to keep it soft but not too soft that it could not handle the 3.6 SRM. Below is the profile I used and the additions I used to get there. Let me know what you think

Ca: 31.4
Mg: 2.4
Na: 4.8
SO4: 26.9
Cl: 37.1
HCO3: 11.0

Below are the additions I used for the sparge and mash water combined for 8.36 gallons total.
CaSO4 (gypsum) 1.0g
NaCl (table salt): 0.4g
MgSO4 (Epsom Salt): 0.8g
CaCl: 2.0g
NaHCO3 (baking soda): 0g
CaCO3 (chalk): 0.3g

According to Palmer's spreadsheet this should support a 4-9 SRM beer which I thought was close enough while maintaining a decent soft water with a low Cl:SO4 level and relatively low Ca and HCO3.

The fermentation is winding down a little about 48 hours after pitching a 1100ml starter. The ferment was kept at ~62 but has bumped up to 63 in the past 24hours. The first 24hours it gave off very little smell but in the second 24 hours it gave off a very strong sulfur aroma that filled most of the basement. The smell has subsided since then but it caught me by surprise.

Let me know what you guys think of the water profile. Thanks!

 

[R2-D2]

I brewed a Hefe on friday too. I just take my tap water and add 1/2 campden tablet and tablespoon of 5.2 ph stabilizer to the mash. This is my first attempt at a Hefe. Next year, my goal is to better match water profiles.

The SRM for my recipe is 3.5 and I'm using WLP300 to really bump up the banana and clove aromas that I love. The base recipe I used was a Franziskaner clone recipe with modifications on the hop side (I'm using Liberty and Chinook). I was a bit worried that my beer was too dark going into primary. But after drinking Franzi last night I am no longer worried because it is a bit darker and murky looking as was my sample. It's all a learning experience in my opinion.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

I brewed a Hefe on friday too. I just take my tap water and add 1/2 campden tablet and tablespoon of 5.2 ph stabilizer to the mash. This is my first attempt at a Hefe. Next year, my goal is to better match water profiles.

The SRM for my recipe is 3.5 and I'm using WLP300 to really bump up the banana and clove aromas that I love. The base recipe I used was a Franziskaner clone recipe with modifications on the hop side (I'm using Liberty and Chinook). I was a bit worried that my beer was too dark going into primary. But after drinking Franzi last night I am no longer worried because it is a bit darker and murky looking as was my sample. It's all a learning experience in my opinion.

Seems like we both had similar experiences Friday..... cool. I too used WLP 300 cause I love the banana and clove flavors. I decided to skip the pH 5.2 this time and possibly for the next few batches. I figure if my water is appropriate for the beer I'm making is it really necessary or will it start leading to flavor changes that I don't want. I'll see how it goes with efficiency.

My recipe was "homemade" as most Hefeweizen recipes are fairly simple and straight forward. So I figured it would be a good chance for me to formulate myself. I'll try to attach the recipe I used if I can figure out the Beersmith attachement method thingy.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

Hopefully my recipe upload works here.

Edit: I would like to upload it so you can read it without downloading it into beersmith. Anyone know how to do this?

View attachment recipes.bsm

 

[R2-D2]

I use the BrewPal iPhone App.

7# Wheat
2.75# Pilsen
.33# Belgian Aromatic (the crush was very course on this as I had to do it at home with a mallet)

90 minute mash at 150, double batch sparge at 178.
1oz Liberty at 60 min
.25oz Liberty and .25 Chinook at 15 min.
WLP300
Pre-boil OG: 1.047, Post-boil:1.057
Expected FG: 1.015
Calculated Efficiency: 76%

Not sure how long I will leave it in primary as I will be on vacation for 10 days. At least 16 days probably 3 weeks. Will leave in secondary 2 weeks if I feel it's too cloudy.

The banana fermentation odor smells great!

 

[Scut_Monkey]

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: New Years Hefeweizen
Style: Weizen/Weissbier
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (0.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 7.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.047 SG
Estimated Color: 3.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 10.5 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.50 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.0 oz Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 2.56 %
6 lbs White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 61.54 %
3 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 30.77 %
8.0 oz Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 5.13 %
1.30 oz Spalt [1.75 %] (60 min) Hops 7.8 IBU
0.75 oz Spalt [1.75 %] (20 min) Hops 2.7 IBU
7.00 gal West View Water Water
1 Pkgs Hefeweizen Ale (White Labs #WLP300) [StartYeast-Wheat


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 9.75 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 4.29 gal of water at 165.3 F 155.0 F
5 min Step Add 2.07 gal of water at 197.7 F 168.0 F
5 min Step Add 2.07 gal of water at 168.0 F 168.0 F


Notes:
------
Water Profile: Using DI water as the base.
Mash Water (4.29gallon) 0.5g CaSO4(gypsum), 0.2g NaCl, 0.4g MgSO4, 1.0g CaCl, 0.3g CaCO3(Chalk)
Sparge Water (4.14gallon) Same as above

Yeast Starter: 1100ml created with 110g DME and 2 drops Fermcap. Boiled 15 minutes and at ~65F ambient. Isolate to be plated and banked.

View attachment recipes.txt

 

[R2-D2]

Your Hefe sounds very traditional and very good. Would be interesting to compare them someday.

 

[OLDBREW]

Unless your water doesn't brew wheat beers well, I wouldn't change anything. The water of Munich 500 years ago might have had an influence on the type of beers they brewed, but their beers have changed over the centuries. Today the breweries all play with their water profiles before brewing. When you see an analysis report of Munich tap water doesn't have much bearing on the brewing water used at the Breweries around the area

 

[Scut_Monkey]

Unless your water doesn't brew wheat beers well, I wouldn't change anything. The water of Munich 500 years ago might have had an influence on the type of beers they brewed, but their beers have changed over the centuries. Today the breweries all play with their water profiles before brewing. When you see an analysis report of Munich tap water doesn't have much bearing on the brewing water used at the Breweries around the area

I see what your saying. When I initially started thinking of this beer I was going to use Munichs water profile and then after I started looking at it it seemed much to hard of a water for the beer I was brewing. So I got away from that and didn't know at the time what to mineral levels to shoot for. The profile I chose seemed the best for me.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

Well I'm a little bummed right now as I just took a hydrometer reading and tasting sample. The hydrometer read 1.014 which is what I expected as fermentation shows to be complete. What I'm bummed about is the fact that the beer had very very little clove/banana flavor. It had a very thin mouthfeel and an acidic green taste to it (only 5 days in fermentor).

I'm pondering why there is such little banana/clove flavor when it was fermented at 62F which is pretty much what everyone suggested. I would expect that these flavors are generated early in fermentation and not as the beer matures. Any one with experience on this? I'm just going to relax and play the waiting game but curious.

 

[R2-D2]

Going to change from a blowoff tube to airlock tonight. Will take a sample and let you know how it's doing. Note: I'm terrible at evaluating samples.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

Going to change from a blowoff tube to airlock tonight. Will take a sample and let you know how it's doing. Note: I'm terrible at evaluating samples.

Cool. Yeah let me know what it's like. My sample was very watery, little banana/clove flavor or aroma and moderately tart. I'm interested to see what you get.

 

[MarsColonist]

Ive read that 62°F for WLP300 exhibits fairly restrained banana and clove. 62°F is recommended as the BJCP style calls for "strong" clove and banana which means "noticeable" in the sense that it shouldnt overpower the wheat taste (according to Jamil Z).

My last Dunkelweizen was WLP300 @ 67-68°F and was strong banana in the nose and strong clove/moderate banana in the taste, and ultimately strong enough to dominate the wheat flavor.

 

[R2-D2]

Cool. Yeah let me know what it's like. My sample was very watery, little banana/clove flavor or aroma and moderately tart. I'm interested to see what you get.

Just tried a sample from the bucket and it's quite wonderful! The aroma is a little muted right now but those banana and clove characteristics were shining through. One of the best samples I've had. Great pale, lightly cloudy color. The gravity is sitting at 1.015 right now which is well within the target range (dead on for BrewPal). I've been leaving my stuff in primary for 3-4 weeks now without a secondary. I suspect that the gravity might come down a bit more over the next few weeks.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

Just tried a sample from the bucket and it's quite wonderful! The aroma is a little muted right now but those banana and clove characteristics were shining through. One of the best samples I've had. Great pale, lightly cloudy color. The gravity is sitting at 1.015 right now which is well within the target range (dead on for BrewPal). I've been leaving my stuff in primary for 3-4 weeks now without a secondary. I suspect that the gravity might come down a bit more over the next few weeks.

If you happen to know, what was your ambient air temp and your fermentation temp?

 

[R2-D2]

If you happen to know, what was your ambient air temp and your fermentation temp?

The ambient floor temperature of my pantry is a steamy 67 degrees. I have no idea what my bucket temp was during fermentation. My ******* put the temp strip on the bottling bucket a year ago when I was greenhorn. I haven't been motivated to buy and apply new strips. Probably should start recording those temps in the future.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

My ambient was about 58 and the fermentation temp got up to about 62. I would imagine your fermentation temp was right around 71. I'm thinking I should have had the fermentation at 68 but 62 was recommended to me by almost everyone. I think the hefe I was trying to reproduce might be different than the BJCP style recommendations.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

My ******* put the temp strip on the bottling bucket a year ago when I was greenhorn. I haven't been motivated to buy and apply new strips. Probably should start recording those temps in the future.

Lol. At least you know what temp you are bottling at for figuring your priming sugar addition.

 

[Doc Robinson]

I just brewed a Hefe with no water adjustments. I have about 230ppm bicarbonates. The beer is undrinkable.

How did your profile work out? Are you drinking it yet?

 

[R2-D2]

Have not bottled yet. Samples tasted great so far, very happy at this point

 

[remilard]

I'm pondering why there is such little banana/clove flavor when it was fermented at 62F which is pretty much what everyone suggested. I would expect that these flavors are generated early in fermentation and not as the beer matures. Any one with experience on this? I'm just going to relax and play the waiting game but curious.

I've never used WLP300 but 62 (fermentation temperature) works wonders for 3068. This produces a beer similar to Bavarian commercial product. US commercial product, in the Bavarian style, often has more banana IME.

Since this got bumped, I will mention that Gordon Strong listed a water profile for his first place NHC hefeweizen in Zymurgy in the issue where the NHC winning recipes are published.

 

[Doc Robinson]

I would go somewhere between pilsen and munich. Hit the minimums on Ca and Mg and keep the Cl:SO4 low and equal.

Based on this, I designed this:

Ca: 54
Mg: 10
Na: 38
Cl: 60
SO4: 100
Cl: 99
HCO3: 19

I used Palmer's Nomograph and this appears perfect for anywhere between 0 & 5 SRM.

2g Gypsum, 1.5g Table Salt, 2g Epsom Salt, & 0.5g Baking Soda per 5 gallons of Distilled Water.

Edit: Also add 2g Calcium Chloride to get the above totals.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

Based on the mineral additions you listed I got the following mineral profile from Beersmith.

Ca: 25
Mg: 10
Na: 38
SO4: 100
Cl: 48
HCO3: 18.9

Seems like your calcium reading and chloride readings might be quite a bit different than what beersmith calculated. How did you calculate your additions?

 

[Doc Robinson]

Based on the mineral additions you listed I got the following mineral profile from Beersmith.

Ca: 25
Mg: 10
Na: 38
SO4: 100
Cl: 48
HCO3: 18.9

Seems like your calcium reading and chloride readings might be quite a bit different than what beersmith calculated. How did you calculate your additions?

Whoops...forgot the 2g CaCl addition.