Snow Peak IPA

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SouthPhillyBr3w3r

SouthPhillyBr3w3r

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Location
Philadelphia, PA
Fermentables:
Pilsner Malt: 9.3 lb
White Wheat Malt: 3 lb
Flaked Wheat: 2 lb
*Mash 60 min @ 154'F

Hops (pellets unless noted):
Centennial: 0.75 oz FWH
Chinook: 0.25 oz FWH
Ekuanot: 1.0 oz Whirlpool 20 min
Azacca (leaf): 1.25 oz Whirlpool 20 min
El Dorado: 1.0 oz Whirlpool 20 min
Citra: 1.0 oz Whirlpool 20 min
Mosaic (cryo): 1.0 oz Whirlpool 20 min
Eureka: 1.0 oz Dry Hop 8 days
El Dorado: 1.0 oz Dry Hop 8 days
Azacca (leaf): 1.25 oz Dry Hop 8 days
Ekuanot: 1.0 oz Dry Hop 5 days
El Dorado: 1.0 oz Dry Hop 5 days
Azacca (leaf): 1.25 oz Dry Hop 5 days

Water:
Carbon filtered.
ADJUSTMENT:
Gypsum 0.25 g/Gal (MASH+SPARGE)
Calcium Chloride 0.35 g/Gal (MASH+SPARGE)
Lactic Acid 2.0 mL (MASH) 1.4 mL (SPARGE)



Yeast: Imperial A24: Dry Hop (Conan+Saccharomyces Trois)

**I appreciate any notes. I realize the hop bill is very complicated, but I just got a ton of new hops and want to use them to make a tropical fruit explosion.
 
I love the choice of hops and the dry hop schedule looks intricate, but that is not important. I would say that dry hopping for 13 days, that is not really I would do. For NEIPA/juicy beers, you want the hops to have enough contact with the beer, but not very long, as to avoid any grassy/danky aromas.

I usually add day 2 or 3 of fermentation and then again 4 days later, leave them for 3-5 days and that is about it.

You will definitely make a very delicious beer. I like El Dorado, Azacca and Eureka!.
 
im currently drinking something similar. difference being less wheat but some oats, and hops being citra simcoe and mandarina bavaria in roughly equal quantities on a similar schedule although i probably only had a half the fw bittering or less. i always find you get a lot more ibu from whirlpool,steep additions than advertised.

My suggestions are maybe put some of whirlpool after a bit of cooling (probably what you were going to do) and first dry hop as above guy said during active fermentation (probably what you were going to do). and second dry hop after cold crash/in keg.

And perhaps switch up the cryo hop for the second dry hop, only because i find thats where most of the vegetal flavours tend to come from and i get no probs from early dry hop or whirlpool with regular pellets.

looks like an awesome beer, the funktown yeast which sounds like the wlp version of yours is a cracker for this style of recipe. i like the idea of the piney backbone your hop bill has which mine lacked; will probably go well with the dryness of the sacc/brett/whatever it is yeast.
 
thehaze said:
I love the choice of hops and the dry hop schedule looks intricate, but that is not important. I would say that dry hopping for 13 days, that is not really I would do. For NEIPA/juicy beers, you want the hops to have enough contact with the beer, but not very long, as to avoid any grassy/danky aromas.

I usually add day 2 or 3 of fermentation and then again 4 days later, leave them for 3-5 days and that is about it.

You will definitely make a very delicious beer. I like El Dorado, Azacca and Eureka!.
Click to expand...

I am not dry hopping for 13 days. I am adding the first round at 48 hr post kuesen and the second in the keg with a dip-tube filter as per Scott Janish
 
divrack said:
im currently drinking something similar. difference being less wheat but some oats, and hops being citra simcoe and mandarina bavaria in roughly equal quantities on a similar schedule although i probably only had a half the fw bittering or less. i always find you get a lot more ibu from whirlpool,steep additions than advertised.

My suggestions are maybe put some of whirlpool after a bit of cooling (probably what you were going to do) and first dry hop as above guy said during active fermentation (probably what you were going to do). and second dry hop after cold crash/in keg.

And perhaps switch up the cryo hop for the second dry hop, only because i find thats where most of the vegetal flavours tend to come from and i get no probs from early dry hop or whirlpool with regular pellets.

looks like an awesome beer, the funktown yeast which sounds like the wlp version of yours is a cracker for this style of recipe. i like the idea of the piney backbone your hop bill has which mine lacked; will probably go well with the dryness of the sacc/brett/whatever it is yeast.
Click to expand...

I heard that there is a lot of difficulty getting Lupuln2 to dissolve into the dry hop. A lot of pro brewers say it just floats on the top unless stirred in, which I worry will oxidize the beer and destroy the (expensive) hop character. Also, the second dry hop will be in a refrigerated keg, so I am not too worried about vegetal flavors. I really hope SWMBO will try this one. She isn't thrilled with my basement brewery, and hasn't so much as tasted a single batch of the 25-30 beers I have made.
 
I appreciate everybody's input! Cheers! Does anyone have experience with kegging a style like this?? I have heard these types of beers go bad quickly, with some even turning a little purple. I figure a well purged keg would help, but I don't want to lose this batch after a month in kegs.
 
Sorry to blow up your notifications, but I have heard some people suggest swapping out the majority, if not all, of the wheat malt for Golden Promise or Maris Otter. Not entirely sure if I want that bready-cracker character from GP or MO. I have also heard that all of that wheat would make it too tart, rather than round and fruity. I am at a loss. Also, I don't want to violate forum rules, but I am brewing this next week and am still in the recipe formulation phase (I don't know if this forum is only for completed recipes). I would be willing to modify this recipe as per forum recommendations, but I also have a tendency to over-think and over-tweak my recipes.
 
SouthPhillyBr3w3r said:
I heard that there is a lot of difficulty getting Lupuln2 to dissolve into the dry hop. A lot of pro brewers say it just floats on the top unless stirred in, which I worry will oxidize the beer and destroy the (expensive) hop character. Also, the second dry hop will be in a refrigerated keg, so I am not too worried about vegetal flavors. I really hope SWMBO will try this one. She isn't thrilled with my basement brewery, and hasn't so much as tasted a single batch of the 25-30 beers I have made.
Click to expand...
More for you then...
Re the dissolving issues.. haven't used it yet but from what I've read it shouldn't be a worry just a quick stir in and you're done. Obviously it's a bigger problem for breweries due to scale. Either way I'm at the same point as you on this so report back.
I find I don't so much like the flavours from the second dry hop at first which taste a bit planty so I'm hoping the cryo gives that unmistakeably tangy fresh hop taste without the negative and will be subject of my next test...
Damn, science is so hard.! Someone has to do it I suppose. Sigh
 
I used LupulN2 as my 1st dry hop on day 3 of fermentation. I wouldn't doubt that at least half sat on top of the pillow of krausen but the krausen eventually fell and the hops made it into the beer. I didn't cold crash and closed transferred into a purged keg on day 14, I had great results. Though I have read that if youre doing a 2nd dry hop (say in your keg) do not use the LupulN2, people have attributed a "hop burn" to this.
 
Going to brew this beer tomorrow, and I am just doing last minute water calculations. Right now, my sulfate is 52 ppm and my chloride is 107 ppm. Any thoughts? I figure I should just keep it. Also, in order to hit a mash pH of 5.2, I am adding 4.2 mL of lactic acid to the mash water and 1.5 mL to the sparge water. Is 5.2 where I want to be?
 
Finished! Tastes like tropical fruit and pine trees!
20180228_144558.jpg
 
Thanks for the information in the other thread (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/another-neipa-question.645678/). How is the apparent bitterness? I ran the boil hops through Brewer's friend and it comes out at ~75 IBU. Does that seem about right? There's seems to be a big mess of theory and research on whirlpool hopping IBU contributions. My goal would be somewhere in the 50-60 IBU range, which lots of hop flavor and aroma and reducing the pure bitterness.

Right now my concerns are oxidation and hopping. Your grain bill and hop selection is very similar to what I was kicking around, so forgive me for picking your brain just a bit :). I was planning on skipping flaked oats because I have a largely-unsupported suspicion that the oats are a major player in the brown mud oxidation issue. I'm sitting on a bunch of Ekanot and Eureka hops, so I wanted to get a balance with them but avoiding catty/dank/pinecone taste.
 
mirthfuldragon said:
Thanks for the information in the other thread (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/another-neipa-question.645678/). How is the apparent bitterness? I ran the boil hops through Brewer's friend and it comes out at ~75 IBU. Does that seem about right? There's seems to be a big mess of theory and research on whirlpool hopping IBU contributions. My goal would be somewhere in the 50-60 IBU range, which lots of hop flavor and aroma and reducing the pure bitterness.

Right now my concerns are oxidation and hopping. Your grain bill and hop selection is very similar to what I was kicking around, so forgive me for picking your brain just a bit :). I was planning on skipping flaked oats because I have a largely-unsupported suspicion that the oats are a major player in the brown mud oxidation issue. I'm sitting on a bunch of Ekanot and Eureka hops, so I wanted to get a balance with them but avoiding catty/dank/pinecone taste.
Click to expand...

Isn't this forum all about picking brains?? :D
So the oxidation attributed to oats are a large reason I used flaked wheat. I have read that the manganese in oats leads to the high reactivity of the beer. As for bitterness, it is not very bitter at all... Just enough to balance the beer. Keep in mind that numerous sources have compared lab-tested actual IBU to the Tinseth formula, and Tinseth usually overshoots the mark by 20-25 IBU. That being said, the first wort hop definitely curbs the sharpness of the bittering charge, leading to a smoother beer. I would probably drop my bittering charge from 0.75 oz Centennial and 0.25 Chinook to 0.5 Centennial and 0.25 Chinook, to accent the flavor and aroma hops more. To avoid too much bitterness from the whirlpool, I chill to 185'F before adding hops, then allow the beer to naturally cool to 165'F over 25-30 minutes of whirlpooling. While there is a lot of disputed information as to whether there is a huge difference between AA isomerization at 185' vs 200-212', I have anecdotally experienced much less bittering when hops are added at 185'F. I haven't gotten much catty/dank aroma or flavor, but the El Dorado definitely helped to round those hops out and contribute a lot of sweet candied cherry flavor. For the next batch, I will probably only use 1/4-1/2 a whirlfloc tablet, rather than a whole tablet, because the beer cleared slightly over two weeks in the keg, but this is easily fixed by giving the keg the slightest rocking every few days. I doubt the haze in this is caused by yeast, since I crashed it hard, and nothing settles to the bottom of the glass. I suspect some of the resin is binding to the Azacca cones in the keg. Also, I would probably add a little El Dorado to the keg hop, as the Azacca has slightly blurred the hop profile away from what I wanted after a few weeks in the keg. One thing I have noticed is that beer is OK right off the tap, but really shines after having a minute to breathe in the glass. Feel free to ask more! I learned so much here, so it's the least I can do!
 
Last edited:
So I have had an issue with this beer clearing in the keg over time. The above photo was a couple days after carbonation was finished, but now it pours almost as clear as a pilsner, with just a little haze (I call it black light haze because it is hard to see with the naked eye, but glows under a black light). I am going to brew this recipe again, and try to dial it in with the following changes:
  1. Substitute FWH with CO2 Hop extract (3-4 mL)
  2. Increase CaCl2
  3. Reduce whirlfloc usage from 1 tablet to 0 - 0.25 tablets
  4. Chill colder before pitching to slow yeast takeoff (Beer had dropped close to FG before 1st dry hop added at 36 hrs)
  5. Increase 1st dry hop amount, and add earlier (1.5 - 2 oz/Gal 12 hours after pitch)
  6. Increase proportion of El Dorado Hops/ reduce Eureka and Ekuanot
  7. Change Azacca from Leaf to Pellet
  8. Add El Dorado to keg hop
  9. Add Flaked Oats to mash
  10. (Possibly) Use Tanal-A
Any thoughts on these changes? I am hoping to: increase haze permanence, accentuate tropical flavor/aroma, decrease prominence of pine/dank flavor and aroma, promote smoother mouthfeel, eliminate any metallic flavors (very subtly present in 1st sip of pint)
 
SouthPhillyBr3w3r said:
So I have had an issue with this beer clearing in the keg over time. The above photo was a couple days after carbonation was finished, but now it pours almost as clear as a pilsner, with just a little haze (I call it black light haze because it is hard to see with the naked eye, but glows under a black light). I am going to brew this recipe again, and try to dial it in with the following changes:
  1. Substitute FWH with CO2 Hop extract (3-4 mL)
  2. Increase CaCl2
  3. Reduce whirlfloc usage from 1 tablet to 0 - 0.25 tablets
  4. Chill colder before pitching to slow yeast takeoff (Beer had dropped close to FG before 1st dry hop added at 36 hrs)
  5. Increase 1st dry hop amount, and add earlier (1.5 - 2 oz/Gal 12 hours after pitch)
  6. Increase proportion of El Dorado Hops/ reduce Eureka and Ekuanot
  7. Change Azacca from Leaf to Pellet
  8. Add El Dorado to keg hop
  9. Add Flaked Oats to mash
  10. (Possibly) Use Tanal-A
Any thoughts on these changes? I am hoping to: increase haze permanence, accentuate tropical flavor/aroma, decrease prominence of pine/dank flavor and aroma, promote smoother mouthfeel, eliminate any metallic flavors (very subtly present in 1st sip of pint)
Click to expand...

My humble comments:

1) I have no experience with Hop extract so No opinion
2) sounds good
3) this potentially leaves protein in the beer, not the type of hazy I would be going for. My bet is that it doesn't change much in appearance or taste from this anyways.
4) not sure if there is a benefit to this except a colder ferment will produce a cleaner beer usually and a slower start may produce more off flavours?
5) more dry hops=more intest fruit flavours and more hazyness (both good)
6) sounds good
7) sounds good
8) this will add flavour and haze for sure
9) this may cause haze but may impact the foam stability in a negative way. That being said I use oats from time to time.
10) No experience with this product

bottom line... lots of dry hops!!!
 
Thanks. The only reason I wanted to chill colder before pitch was because my last round got up to 75'F after a few hours and fermentation was so vigorous that it nearly hit FG in 24 hours
 
I don't know to much about Neipa but I thought the instant oats is what made it cloudy or just oats in general
 
I believe the oats do factor in to oxidation.
I brewed Braufessor's version a couple times, most recently 12/26/17. I did a closed transfer from fermenter to keg. We are almost at 3 months and it's still somewhat cloudy but is clearing and the color has begun to turn. Tastewise, the hop aroma and flavor has diminished but it's still drinkable.
Next time, I'll brew a PA, maybe Russian River or Bells and use the same hop schedule as Braufessor's NEIPA. Just want to see how it holds up over time.
TBH, makes me no difference whether it's cloudy or crystal clear. Just as long as it's good.
 

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